Sale Agreed, Mortgage Drawn Down and No Keys! (Old thread)

the_syco

OP; maybe look into getting legal advice on how your current solicitor is handling things, as from your previous threads, it sounds like he has f**ked up.

banie01

the_syco wrote: »

OP; maybe look into getting legal advice on how your current solicitor is handling things, as from your previous threads, it sounds like he has f**ked up.

Agreed!
From reading the other threads the OP started and seeing all the same advice given and ignored!
I can't understand why the OP is going anywhere near the vendor's solicitor?
The F.up here is by their own solicitor in drawing down the mortgage when no enforceable contract exists?
The buck stops with their solicitor jumping the gun!
I hope at the very least your solicitor is reimbursing any interest portion of the mortgage payments you are making while you are without a house or indeed any legal interest in said house?
Wonder how the mortgage lender will view the fact that money has been drawn down on an undertaking only and with no mortgageable interest available to them yet?

Marcusm

MammaMurphy wrote: »

Am quite new to all of this Boards.ie only the last couple of weeks so im not entirely sure how to update my last status!! So sorry about that.

No roro2 it is not a typo, i have my solicitor haunting HIS solicitor every day of the week because we are stressed out over all this now at this stage.

All you have to do is post on your previous topics.

You are making a mistake by "haunting" the vendor's solicitor as he is unlikely to be involved in applying for the other loan. The estate agent who is counting on the commission might be a better bet.

Your solicitor has royally f*cked up and this has cost you at least one mortgage payment if not two at this stage. He is also 99% certainly in breach of the mortgage drawdown conditions and Law Soc conveyancing guidelines - drawdown must follow contract exchange not precede it. If you have not made this clear to your solicitor at this stage then you are allowing yourself to follow this road to hell. If the vendor has not gothis negative equity financing in place at this stage (a number of weeks after you became aware of the slow progress) then it is highly unlikely to be forthcoming. You need to notify your solicitor now that he has a professional indemnity claim coming down the pipe and see what result that gets you.

If on the other hand you're prepared to sit around making payments on a loan you haven't used, I'd like to sell you Aras an Uachtarain to live in.

spockety

OP just to clarify what everyone had said in case it is not sinking in:

Call your solicitor and say "can you tell me why you drew down the mortgage when there was no contract in place with the vendor please?"


Keep it as simple as that for the moment and let us know what he or she says to you.

MammaMurphy

Well our bank requested the funds back for the moment as we have no completion date so the cheque is going back 2moro.

We also rand EA and solicitor this morning to see if there is any sort of progress and basically we have made a decision to give them until the end of July to get it closed and if not we are walking away.

Our solicitor sent his solr a letter yesterday with a copy of the email from our bank requesting funds back and hopefully this will give them a kick and get it sorted by the end of the week and if not we are walking away.

We are within our rights to walk away as there is no binding contract signed by the vendor but then we are back to square one again now going through the whole process of viewing again!! Along with the valuations and surveyors AGAIN!!!

Fingers crossed that we just get some answer this week as we are pulling our hair out at this stage!!

ABajaninCork

Did you get on to the Law Society about your solicitor's conduct? I'd be looking to report him as soon as your business is concluded - either way.

the_syco

MammaMurphy wrote: »

We are within our rights to walk away as there is no binding contract signed by the vendor

Hrm... what did you sign, then, before you agreed to draw down the mortgage, in the way of buying the house?

I'd wonder what you'd stand to lose?

MammaMurphy

We signed our contracts but as far as we are aware the vendor hasnt signed the binding part!

We are for sure getting onto the Law library as soon as this is all over and reporting both solicitors and making complaints against each.

We have been told we are within our rights to walk away as he hasnt signed the binding contract.

listermint

MammaMurphy wrote: »

We signed our contracts but as far as we are aware the vendor hasnt signed the binding part!

We are for sure getting onto the Law library as soon as this is all over and reporting both solicitors and making complaints against each.

We have been told we are within our rights to walk away as he hasnt signed the binding contract.

Well its fairly simple your solicitor by rights shouldnt of had you sign anything until they were 100% sure that the financial side of the vendor was addressed. At that stage you would then sign and send it off.

That person is an incompetent idiot.

seamus

The whole process is effectively a system of checkpoints, and it works great, but it falls down because it assumes that the solicitors as guardians of the process, will never cut corners or tell lies. In order to draw down, the solicitor has to tell the bank that the contracts are signed.

This kind of cowboy behaviour went on a lot during the boom because it was practically unheard of for someone to have difficulty getting a mortgage and the solicitor had 20 transactions on the go and wanted this done and closed. I didn't think solicitors still thought it was OK to do this kind of crap.

Yeah, once the bank has their money back and you have your deposit back, I'd be cutting ties with the solicitor and making a complaint to the law society. Include a claim for any costs you may have lost as a result of this - e.g. mortgage interest, loss of earnings having to take days off, etc.

the_syco

MammaMurphy wrote: »

We signed our contracts but as far as we are aware the vendor hasnt signed the binding part!

So you effectively tried to draw down the mortgage on a house which the vendor didn't sign the contract to sell to you?

MammaMurphy wrote: »

We are for sure getting onto the Law library as soon as this is all over and reporting both solicitors and making complaints against each.

I'm not really getting what complaint you have with the other solicitor, as it seems your solicitor f**ked up, and is trying to pass the buck. I'd be of the opinion that the other solicitor knows this, and is ignoring you/him for that reason?

MammaMurphy wrote: »

We have been told we are within our rights to walk away as he hasnt signed the binding contract.

I'd get legal advice from a different solicitor about this, as
1) current solicitor doesn't seem to know how to do things
2) you may lose your deposit, and get sued for walking away for something you committed to (as you signed the contract).

I'd advise legal advise from another solicitor, as this could really sting you badly.

chris85

MammaMurphy wrote: »

We signed our contracts but as far as we are aware the vendor hasnt signed the binding part!

We are for sure getting onto the Law library as soon as this is all over and reporting both solicitors and making complaints against each.

We have been told we are within our rights to walk away as he hasnt signed the binding contract.

They havent signed as no mortgage agreed for them, thats fair enough, and their solicitor doesnt appear to have done anything wrong. Its your solicitor that messed up. No point in reporting the other solicitor for no wrong doing just because you want to blame as many people as possible when its your solicitor who has caused all this mess.

MammaMurphy

The reason i will be reporting his solr is for a simple reason they have lied to us since day one, they are not answering my solr calls and taking days to get back to us.

They simply are not pushing the issue with the vendors bank and tbh some1 has the answers and that person is not getting the answers from the bank.

Like how hard is it to contact the bank manager, explain the purchasers situation, basically push the banks to make a decision on the vendors loan application??? I dont think that is very hard to do! It only takes a couple of phone calls and stern questions to get an answer. Once we get the answer we can continue with the close of sale!!!

It is also the vendors problem too as him and his solr are VERY LAID BACK in getting answers from the bank!!!


We the purchasers should not have to suffer on this as they are the ones that asked us to close on the 31st May 13, and if they wanted this closed they should have had all the relevant documentation sorted!!

Do you all not agree on this??

whippet

while its a pain in the ass .. what the vendor does and what their solicitor does is really of no interest to you. Solicitors sit on paperwork and delay response for many reasons .. mainly to buy time and give them selves and their clients breathing space. As far as I can see you have no grounds to make a complaints against the vendors solicitor.

as for your assumption that a couple of stern words to the bank to move things along? This does not happen, I know from recent experience that getting paperwork through banks takes for ever and it is nigh on impossible to actually get to speak with someone who you need to speak with.

It took me the guts of 7 months to close my purchase last year and that was down to Banks, Co. Co. Councils, Vendors, our solicitor wanting to make sure on a number of points, planning office etc ... we had 4 different agreed closing dates etc .... While it was frustrating it didn't really bother us as we were not under pressure to move in (we planned to spend the first month doing the place up) ....

Your solicitor has plenty to answer for .....

ABajaninCork

MammaMurphy wrote: »

Do you all not agree on this??

No, I'm afraid not. OP - you're STILL not getting it. The vendor's solicitor works for the vendor NOT you the purchaser! He will take instructions from his client only. So anything you say to him is a waste of time. You're not the ones paying his bill.

Several people on this thread have told you over and under - The mistake is YOUR solicitor's! The mortgage should never have been drawn down with no signed contract in place. That was a fundamental mistake which has cost you 000's. And you might STILL not get the house!!

TBH - I'd just walk away now. This is looking too much like hard work. Tell the solicitor you'll be taking further legal advice and action to follow to recover your losses and damages.

Marcusm

MammaMurphy wrote: »

The reason i will be reporting his solr is for a simple reason they have lied to us since day one, they are not answering my solr calls and taking days to get back to us.

They simply are not pushing the issue with the vendors bank and tbh some1 has the answers and that person is not getting the answers from the bank.

Like how hard is it to contact the bank manager, explain the purchasers situation, basically push the banks to make a decision on the vendors loan application??? I dont think that is very hard to do! It only takes a couple of phone calls and stern questions to get an answer. Once we get the answer we can continue with the close of sale!!!

It is also the vendors problem too as him and his solr are VERY LAID BACK in getting answers from the bank!!!


We the purchasers should not have to suffer on this as they are the ones that asked us to close on the 31st May 13, and if they wanted this closed they should have had all the relevant documentation sorted!!

Do you all not agree on this??

I suspect this is the story you're hearing from your solicitor and in true Irish fashion you're accepting it as true?

Why would the other solicitor be involved in pushing a bank to provide finance to the vendor for the negative equity? Was this one of the tasks your solicitor sorted out for you? Applying for the mortgage? I think not. The soicitor's involvement with the funding is mechanically arranging for it travel through the change; it would be highly inappropriate for him to be arranging finance.

All you have with respect to the bona fides of the other solicitor is the guff which you're hearing from your solicitor to put you off REALISING that he is the one at fault. The mortgage cheque has gone back now so neither your nor his client has had the benefit of the use of the funding but you have had to make at least one mortgage payment. Has he explained to you how or if he's going to he it back for you.

Your solicitor seems to be a muppet in everything other than deflecting criticism of himself. I'm not a lone voice saying this, I don't think a single poster has suggested your guy is not at fault.

the_syco

MammaMurphy wrote: »

The reason i will be reporting his solr is for a simple reason they have lied to us since day one, they are not answering my solr calls and taking days to get back to us.

From reading other threads, banks meet every couple of weeks. The house has not yet been sold to you. Even in the boom times, the process can take a while.

MammaMurphy wrote: »

Like how hard is it to contact the bank manager, explain the purchasers situation, basically push the banks to make a decision on the vendors loan application???

The bank manager? How the funk would he know? The decision for this is taken by a group of people somewhere in head office.

MammaMurphy wrote: »

It only takes a couple of phone calls and stern questions to get an answer. Once we get the answer we can continue with the close of sale!!!

Stern questions? I'm sorry, but you must be having a laugh. This isn't some spoilt child that you're ringing, it's the principle with all the cards!

MammaMurphy wrote: »

It is also the vendors problem too as him and his solr are VERY LAID BACK in getting answers from the bank!!!

So far, your solicitor has been passing the buck. I'm thinking he has the answer, but is trying to buy himself some time.

MammaMurphy wrote: »

We the purchasers should not have to suffer on this as they are the ones that asked us to close on the 31st May 13, and if they wanted this closed they should have had all the relevant documentation sorted!!

31st May? Serious? These things can overspill by a few months. Your problem is the mortgage is already coming down.

Actually, where is it going to? Your solicitors bank account in the Cayman Islands?

MammaMurphy wrote: »

Do you all not agree on this??

GET ****ING LEGAL ADVICE. HOLY ****ING ****. HOW THE **** DO YOU NOT GET THIS???

AAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHH!!!

But no. You won't. Why? Because you keep asking the same questions, ignoring all advice.

MammaMurphy

TO ALL OF YOU WHO ARE SPEAKING TO ME LIKE IM A CHILD THAT IS THE REASON IM IGNORING YOU!

SERIOUSLY YOU HAVE NO IDEA OF WHAT MYSELF AND MY HUSBAND ARE GOING THROUGH, YOU HAVE NO IDEA OF HOW STRESSED OUT WE ARE LIVING IN SOME1 ELSES HOUSE THE PAST 9 MONTHS WAITING FOR ALL THIS PROCESS.

SO IF YOU HAVE NOTHING NICE TO SAY THE BASICALLY F**k OFF AND STOP IRRITATING ME.

NONE OF YOU KNOW THE PRESSURE WE ARE UNDER TRYING TO GET OUR DREAM HOUSE AND TBH EVERY1 HAS THERE OPINIONS AND IF I FEEL THAT I AM RIGHT THATS ALL THAT MATTERS.

the_syco

MammaMurphy wrote: »

IF I FEEL THAT I AM RIGHT THATS ALL THAT MATTERS.

Righto, I'll leave you to it, then.

witchgirl26

MammaMurphy wrote: »

TO ALL OF YOU WHO ARE SPEAKING TO ME LIKE IM A CHILD THAT IS THE REASON IM IGNORING YOU!

SERIOUSLY YOU HAVE NO IDEA OF WHAT MYSELF AND MY HUSBAND ARE GOING THROUGH, YOU HAVE NO IDEA OF HOW STRESSED OUT WE ARE LIVING IN SOME1 ELSES HOUSE THE PAST 9 MONTHS WAITING FOR ALL THIS PROCESS.

SO IF YOU HAVE NOTHING NICE TO SAY THE BASICALLY F**k OFF AND STOP IRRITATING ME.

NONE OF YOU KNOW THE PRESSURE WE ARE UNDER TRYING TO GET OUR DREAM HOUSE AND TBH EVERY1 HAS THERE OPINIONS AND IF I FEEL THAT I AM RIGHT THATS ALL THAT MATTERS.

I've been kinda keeping up with these threads OP as I felt for you in this situation. It's a terrible place to find yourself in but reacting like this to people who are trying to give you advice on what to do will not help. I get that you're stressed but it does not mean you react like that to people who are genuinely taking time out of their day to try to help you out with their well thought through advice.

If you feel you are right, then why did you come on here? To validate that or to get help?

Your solicitor is largely at fault here for drawing down the mortgage before things have gone through. There is nothing the vendors solicitor can do if the decision is with the banks for the vendors new mortgage. Nothing at all so constantly ringing them or getting your solicitor to ring them is not going to speed up the process at all.

Unfortunately things over run when purchasing a home. I saw it with my sister & she wasn't even part of a chain (she was buying a new build) - original move date was April & she got the keys in June. Just the way things went.

This is the internet - you put something out there & you do not get to say that only nice comments will be accepted by you. Does this mean that you'll only listen to people who are saying that they agree with you? It doesn't work like that. People are trying to give you good advice & it's not right that you're throwing that back in their faces with a post like the above.

Once again, I'm sorry for the stress that you're under with this but you need to think really who the blame lies with. There's enough to go around but I think you need to seriously question your own solicitor & sort that out first before you try to take on the vendor's solicitor right now. Good luck with it all.

L1011

MammaMurphy wrote: »

AND IF I FEEL THAT I AM RIGHT THATS ALL THAT MATTERS.

This is the entire cause of your problem.

You are not right. Your solicitor is a cowboy. He is the only person you have any grounds to make a complaint about.

Do let us know how heartily the Law Society laugh when you attempt to complain about the vendor's solicitor.

ABajaninCork

As the saying goes: If you can't hear. You must FEEL.

pwurple

Listen, I know it's not ideal, and the solicitor is certainly at fault. BUT, if the sale does go through (and I hope it does) you'll be a month further into your mortgage. It's 1 month less to pay at the far end.

Moving is very stressful, believe me I know, I moved a few weeks ago.

What I did when there was a delay in our sale of 3 months, was negotiate a reduction in the sale price due to our additional rent and storage expenses. For every month delay, there was another 1500 knocked off the price. I did this through the estate agent. It was all BEFORE contracts were signed though, so I'm not sure if you've gone too far already.

listermint

MammaMurphy wrote: »

The reason i will be reporting his solr is for a simple reason they have lied to us since day one, they are not answering my solr calls and taking days to get back to us.

They simply are not pushing the issue with the vendors bank and tbh some1 has the answers and that person is not getting the answers from the bank.

Like how hard is it to contact the bank manager, explain the purchasers situation, basically push the banks to make a decision on the vendors loan application??? I dont think that is very hard to do! It only takes a couple of phone calls and stern questions to get an answer. Once we get the answer we can continue with the close of sale!!!

It is also the vendors problem too as him and his solr are VERY LAID BACK in getting answers from the bank!!!


We the purchasers should not have to suffer on this as they are the ones that asked us to close on the 31st May 13, and if they wanted this closed they should have had all the relevant documentation sorted!!

Do you all not agree on this??

Your solicitor is an idiot, and you appear to be listening to them too much. I think thats the problem here.

Regardless of what the Vendor does and doesnt do. Your solicitor is a prime example of an idiot who has already stung you by not doing all the checks and balances and you are coming out blaming the vendors side??

Why the hell would your solicitor call you in to sign documentation to draw down the mortgage when the other side hasnt finalised everything required.

- Tool -

Marchbride

Mamma murphy what happened in the end? Felt so sorry for you reading your posts

MammaMurphy

Hi Marchbride,

We finally got the house we were waiting for. We didnt get the keys until the end of August and we were delighted. we are living in it since the start of October as there was ALOT of work that needed to be done to it.

To be honest the banks are taking their time with peoples loan applications and its disgraceful as ppl are stressed out alot buying a house then the added stress from the banks makes it worse. Its was the vendors bank that was delaying us but it came through in the end.

Xmas tree and decos up and all and all set for santa to come and our lil boy has settled into the house which we are delighted about and has loads of great friends.

Thanks very much for asking, i hope you are not in the same situation as me.

Regards

Mamma Murphy

Marchbride

MammaMurphy wrote: »

Hi Marchbride,

We finally got the house we were waiting for. We didnt get the keys until the end of August and we were delighted. we are living in it since the start of October as there was ALOT of work that needed to be done to it.

To be honest the banks are taking their time with peoples loan applications and its disgraceful as ppl are stressed out alot buying a house then the added stress from the banks makes it worse. Its was the vendors bank that was delaying us but it came through in the end.

Xmas tree and decos up and all and all set for santa to come and our lil boy has settled into the house which we are delighted about and has loads of great friends.

Thanks very much for asking, i hope you are not in the same situation as me.

Regards

Mamma Murphy

Aw yay
That's great news mammy murphy delighted for you and your family and all before Xmas it must be so lovely for you three. What bank was your vendor with? We've applied through broker and are now awaiting! AIB came back with Qs this morn and I'm not too hopeful even though we've banked with them years. They just seem to be ridiculous for lending. Will be moving my Acc from them too. It's stressful process applying and buying a house without the type of added stress you had especially with a baby
We're stuck at mo as are renting and renewal was due 1st dec, we don't wanna say yes to a yr lease if we get approval and don't wanna say no to lease if we don't get approval!! I wanna tell landlord agency what's happening but don't want them turfing us out with a 6 mth and 23 mth old!!
So happy things worth out for u

El_Dangeroso

Marchbride wrote: »

Aw yay
we don't wanna say yes to a yr lease if we get approval and don't wanna say no to lease if we don't get approval!!

Just so you know you don't have to sign another lease, you have part 4 tenancy rights when there over 6 months so can just continue month to month from now on. You are obliged to give 28 days notice when you do move.

Marchbride

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Just so you know you don't have to sign another lease, you have part 4 tenancy rights when there over 6 months so can just continue month to month from now on. You are obliged to give 28 days notice when you do move.

Thanks so much for that info el dangeroso this forum is great for NB info like that. Thank u

El_Dangeroso

Marchbride wrote: »

Thanks so much for that info el dangeroso this forum is great for NB info like that. Thank u

No problem, I've learnt A LOT about the laws around renting in this forum too, it's by far one of the most useful ones I browse!