Gaelforce newbie - pacing question

JacEim

Hi All
I am an adventure race newbie, 2 weeks ago i signed up for Gaelforce west (6.30 am wave)

I started exercising again 18 months ago after my weight peaked at 108kg after hitting 40!!! I'm now down to 90kg (and hope to lose another couple by staying off the gargle between now and Gaelforce).

I have been predominately running and cycling to get back in shape. Earlier in the year I did a 10k road race in 42.30 and a 10 mile road race in 71.40. I recently did the Ring of Kerry charity cycle (which I found relatively easy) and last night I did a slowish 13k in 62 mins in the heat. I plan to do a brick session on Saturday - 13k run and 30k cycle so hopefully this will be a good barometer of my overall fitness. I will be giving it holly on the training front for the next coupe of weeks to improve my fitness coming into Gaelforce..

So, my question - could anyone give me a sense for what time I should be aiming for in Gaelforce? Should I be aiming for around 6 hours or 5.30 or even 5 hours (perhaps I am dreaming here!!)
E.g. Will the difference in terrain mean that I will be expending as much energy doing a 6 min KM in the opening run as I would be in doing 4.45 Km's on the road? How much less (%) should I be running than race pace ? Etc...
I have never even walked C Patrick and I doubt there are many soft trails at the moment so am clueless.
After doing ROK I am thinking that my stamina is not too bad (as long as I feed the engine)
Not sure if I have explained myself properly in the above ramble - hope it makes sense. Any help greatly appreciated.
Cheers

bohoman

Well done on the weight loss, you sound like your in good shape for it.
My advice to you is get a good steep hill and go up and down it, last year it took me twice as long to go down as up due to hurting my knee on the first run,(I never had any knee probs) but get use to that hold back feeling

Just make sure your ankles are strong ! In 2011 I tried GFW and sprained my ankle so in 2012 I got oxide tape and taped my ankles (it really is that rough) I found a few times the tape really taking the strain !! I would recommend this, but train with the tape so you use to it

I used salmon speedcross 2. Great pair of trail shoes

Best of luck and don't make any changes that you haven't trained with

bohoman

GFW 11 !!

JacEim

Thanks for the reply.

Jesus - that looks sore. Am planning on getting a pair of trail runners at the weekend and start training with them next week (have read good reports about the saloons and innov8's). I have a reasonably narrow foot and like a bit of toe space in my running shoes. Am I at risk of my foot sliding forward during the downhill?
I have a hill beside me that averages about 20% over 700m. It's still on the road but would going up and down this a few times make a big difference?

I feel I should be aiming more towards the 6 hour pacing based on how tough it is...

JacEim

Edit: Salomons and not saloons

hardCopy

Conditions can have a big affect on your pace, this will be different for every wave on the day, never mind comparing against previous years.

Going in an early wave means you should have the best conditions and the course will be less churned up. The Famine Trail could be in decent nick if not too wet, or it could be like last year when I sank up to my hips in mud and wasted two minutes trying to get out.

I found the going a lot slower than my normal road pace, I did the first trail run in 1:20 (6:09/km) last year and did a 1:45 Half Marathon (4:58/km) a month later. My first bike was 1:42 (19.7km/h), after doing a 88.5K bike leg of a Half Ironman in 3:14 last July (27.37km/h).

If you're buying trail shoes for this race try to get one designed for door to trail use as a lot of the first and second run legs are on roads, low rise, minimal trail shoes may not be comfortable on the road if you're not used to a flat shoe. Salomon XR Mission or Asics Trabuco would be the most suitable type IMO, all the brands will probably have something in this space. I did it in road shoes in 2011 and had a few falls descending the Reek. I wore Trabuco's last year and found them great, I used them all winter on a combination of concrete and wet grass/dirt trails.

bohoman

Am I at risk of my foot sliding forward during the downhill?

Not really, just them muscles that hold you back and the knee's

Just try and get somewhere hilly and off road

I sprained my ankle in 11, then in 12 in hurt my knee on the first run (ended up walking after the kayak) finished with a bad time 8h 32min. Poor I know but was happy to finish after the previous years disappointment... So this year I want a better time, sub 7h

Ps if there is any other people that are training for GFW and have strava add me as its good to see what other people are doing, my nickname on strava is leon5591

Enduro

You won't really be able to estimate your time. There is a large variety of terrain on the race, so road speeds won't be very useful for estimates. Just head out a steady effort (not speed), and try to maintain that over the course of the day. Don't obsess over time. Unless you're already an expert you'll learn loads from the first time you do the course. Then you can target a time for the following year.

DO NOT tape up your ankles unless you have a good medical reason for doing so. That's a recipe for getting even weaker ankles. You're only going to strenghten your ankle muscles by exercising them (The same way as with all your other muscles... they waste away if you don't use them).

Trail runners are a good idea. Personally I would have a preference for Inov8 over Salomon, but try as many a you can. For something like GF I would choose something suited to more mixed trails. My own preference there are Columbia shoes, but Asics trail shoes are also similar. Less grippy than the pure off-road shoes, but a bit better on paths and roads.

Do as much training as you can on hills, both running and cycling. CP is a killer hill no matter how fit you are, but hill training will improve your speed on it hugely.

Loosing weight will be massively benificial in a hilly race (like GF) in particular, so keep going the way you are!

bohoman

DO NOT tape up your ankles unless you have a good medical reason for doing so. That's a recipe for getting even weaker ankles. You're only going to strenghten your ankle muscles by exercising them (The same way as with all your other muscles... they waste away if you don't use them).


Fair point Enduro, bad advice to be giving out, only do it if there's a weakness there.

but it's coming from someone who sprained there ankle the pervious year, but it's hard to train for the first's runs terrain

Enduro

bohoman wrote: »

but it's hard to train for the first's runs terrain

The most obvious way to train for technical terrain is to find the roughest ground you can nearby and train on it! There can't be too many places in Ireland that don't have crappy terrain within running distance surely. Take it nice and carefully at first, and speed up as your confidence, stability, and muscles, grow with the practice.

JacEim

Thanks Hardcopy
Your times put you in the seasoned athlete category ( in my mind at least!). Those differences in times (road vs GF) provide great context (and fear ) and so I think I will be aiming to do the event 'within myself' this year and if I do manage to complete it then I will at least be armed with more information for next year.

JacEim

Thanks Enduro
Have read your prior adventure posts with great interest!! I haven't been doing any runs over 13k in the past few weeks. Should I be ramping up to a steady 10m or 1/2 marathon at the weekends to build stamina and do some of the hill stuff during the week ?
Or are brick sessions more valuable for the long session at the weekend?
I will definitely incorporate the local hill into my training...

As a side matter - I am finding that I have plateaued at around the 14st (I am 5' 11"), and finding it difficult to lose a flabby gut and moobs. Should I be doing more core work in the gym to get rid of these - I hate sit ups!!! When I played Competitive sports fado fado I was around 12- 12 1/2 stone and don't think I will ever get to that again but would like to think I could get to 13st..

JacEim

Went out for a hill run this evening as follows:

1. 2k slow flat warm up
2. 1.2k hill at 10% gradient (as per garmin) in 6.45
3. Jogged back down hill in 5.30
4 Up hill again in 7.30 - two short walks for about 10 seconds each
5. Jog back down hill in 5.20
6. 2k steady run home - 5.00 pace.

Really felt it going up the hills and my back is sore tonight. is this because my core is non existent or will this get better with practice runs?
Am I dreaming thinking I can do gaelforce?
What is the CP distance / elevation ?
arrggghhhh

bohoman

Your well fit for GF, I done a 10km and took an hour, 1:55 for a 10 mile run, and I'm doing it so you should be well able for it
Done this today, I also feel my back after a hill run.

JacEim

bohoman wrote: »

Your well fit for GF, I done a 10km and took an hour, 1:55 for a 10 mile run, and I'm doing it so you should be well able for it
Done this today, I also feel my back after a hill run.

Cheers bohoman
That's a pretty steep looking run you did there yourself tonight! Was it offroad?

bohoman

JacEim wrote: »

Cheers bohoman
That's a pretty steep looking run you did there yourself tonight! Was it offroad?

Yeah it was.... Well, its a trail/gravel lane, it's Belmore mountain, luckily it's beside me :-)

hardCopy

In my experience, the vast majority of folk will end up shuffling/walking/speed hiking up the Reek. Don't freak out of you get there on the day and don't have the legs to run it, the hill training will still stand to you and let you walk it faster than most.

Head along to an IMRA race if there's any beginner suitable races left in the summer league.

woody1

JacEim wrote: »

So, my question - could anyone give me a sense for what time I should be aiming for in Gaelforce? Should I be aiming for around 6 hours or 5.30 or even 5 hours (perhaps I am dreaming here!!)

you run and cycle quicker than me , i did it in 5.19, but..i had several practice spins on the bike course, was on the rough stuff on the second cycle ( the skelp ) twice before it, went up that side of croagh patrick twice before the race and ive climbed croagh patrick a lot as i live in mayo and im into hillwalking anyway..and id done a few other multi-sport races before.. the only thing to catch me out was the first run.. i was expecting the terrain..alternating boggy / mucky and stony but just the lenght of it and the constant changing in where your feet are going and what their on, its hard on the legs..its enjoyable but over 15 odd km its hard on the legs.. the last 2k of this bit really dragged for me..
i went in the first wave and id recomend it.. no break at the kayak..and it can be lonely on the bike..but the upside is the course isnt crowded and your getting the run course in its best condition.. and its all over earlier too !!
if you can get on any bit of the course at all beforehand itl help hugely..even just the cycle from delphi to croagh patrick.. to know whats ahead is worth loads of time

JacEim

[QUOTE=woody1;85558162.
i went in the first wave and I'd recomend it.. no break at the kayak..and it can be lonely on the bike..but the upside is the course isnt crowded and your getting the run course in its best condition.. and its all over earlier too !!
if you can get on any bit of the course at all beforehand itl help hugely..even just the cycle from delphi to croagh patrick.. to know whats ahead is worth loads of time[/QUOTE]

Thanks Woody
I put myself in the 6.30 wave (which I think then starts the race at 8am) because I thought it would be serious athletes in the earlier waves - I don't want to be in their way... Or embarrass myself either. I could ask the organisers to move me up 30 mins - I like the idea of being finished as early as possible!!

Looking back on my hill run last night I was blowing hard at the tops of the hills, but no different than if i was doing sprints (cant find my chest strap - must get the kids on the hunt as would be interesting to see what the max HR will be on these runs) but legs feel fine this morning. My back is still a little achy... Need to figure out if this is just muscles screaming "what the hell did you just do to us" and need some encouragement or something else...

Plan for week:
mon: 13k steady pace. Done
Tues: 8k including ~ 2.5k hills. Done
Wed: Rest (garden needs about 3 hours watering... My own well water
thurs: playing first game of soccer in about a year
Friday: 8 k run
Saturday long brick
Sunday - tbd
Promised myself no beer or ice cream through rest of week!!!!

woody1

all kinds in the first wave.. you wont be in the really fast guys way, theyl be dissappearing into the distance very quickly..