Itchy dog

Jules_G

Hi
We have a springer spaniel. He's virtually retired from huntng now and lives indoors, but for the last few years he's developed a skin irritation. He scratches constantly, he chews his legs and feet until they bleed.

The vet had him on various stuff and finally settled on Atopica. While this did help him drastically, it is hideously expensive - €180 a month. While we love the dog to bits, we can't afford that!
I was wondering if anyone knows of a cheaper alternative to Atopica?

andreac

What do you feed him? Have they found out whats actually causing the irritation?

Jules_G

andreac wrote: »

What do you feed him? Have they found out whats actually causing the irritation?

He's on a dry food, (pro forma) but its all natural stuff, and a small amount of wet food (nature diet) The vet doesn't think it's his diet. He did say he didn't think it's worth doing a skin scraping.
We've tried the oils, baths, soaps, Epsom salts. The only thing that really helped was the atropica, but it's just too expensive.
He's a great dog, and is so happy to be indoors, where he is spoilt rotten! but the itching is getting bad and we need to try and get him an alternative to atropica

Ms Tootsie

To be honest a raw diet might help. We switched our dog to a mixture of raw and fresh and noticed a significant decline in his scratching. It could be something natural in the food that is causing the irritation. We also use a little drop of tea tea oil (random I know) in the bath when we are washing him and that seems to help. I actually got the tip from another boardsie.

DBB

OP, your vet is taking the pee if he's not wanting to investigate further... Some vets can be just lazy when it comes to skin issues, and Atopica is not meant to be used until a diagnosis has been made. It's an easy way to mask symptoms, but it does not address the cause of the problem, which is quite a pain when it's so expensive!
How on earth can the vet tell whether it's not the food? He can't, without further investigation.
It could be a wheat allergy (from food), rice allergy (from food), it could be a specific protein allergy (from food), it could be storage mites (which live in food), it could be harvest mites, dust mites, fleas, an allergy to something in the house. But most itchy skin boils back to a problem with food, and to not have put the dog on an exclusion diet is just lazy vetting.
Take it from me, I could go on Mastermind with itchy dogs as my specialist subject... Your vet just is not trying hard enough.

Jules_G

Thanks for the replies I can't tell you how much I appreciate them!
it looks like we'll start with his diet, and go from there!
What dry food would you recommend we start with? I'd like one easily available and not too expensive as our lurcher will have to go on it as well!
I'll get him on the raw food as well, he'll like that!
Thanks again

DBB

If you want to get him off the most common allergens, he's got to come off dry food altogether! One of the commonest causes of itchy skin, after food allergies, is storage mites. They live in dry food, no matter how expensive it is.
Ideally, he'd go on an exclusion diet, starting out with ingredients which are unlikely to cause an allergic reaction: fish, rabbit, game birds, turkey.
He'd stay on just this, with perhaps some cooked spuds and veg mixed in, for several weeks.
You would then start to add in the common allergens and see do any provoke a reaction. If they don't, chances are this ingredient is safe for your dog. I'd try chicken first, as it is so easy to get and very good for them!
Naturediet is quite a nice commercial version of this diet with a nice range of flavours, but a pricey way to feed a large dog.
But dry food should be avoided during an exclusion diet, which will take 2 to 3 months to get answers from.
If after that time you have a clean-skinned dog, you could try adding a cereal free dry food to the mix to see is he okay with it.
Also at this time of the year, make sure you're treating harvest mites, as they're another big cause of itchy skin, especially the feet.

d9oiu2wk07blr5

OP, the vet should put your dog on a food trial diet to see if it's diet related. It can also help to dip the dog in sea if you're lucky enough to be living by the sea, and once the dog is stabilised on atopica, you can try to reduce the dosage from one tab every day to one every second and if there's no relapse, to one every three etc etc etc. If atopica is working, I wouldn't go below one every four or every five days. They can also use hydrocortisone cream (sparingly) in conjuction with atopica for a particular bad flare up.

Cedrus

I have a dog with itchy patches and he was on Atopica every day but we've weaned him down from daily to weekly with an occasional (~monthly) wash using Malaseb Shampoo (also quite expensive unfortunately) and he gets Stronghold every 6 weeks to deter any opportunistic mites.

anniehoo

DBB wrote: »

OP, your vet is taking the pee if he's not wanting to investigate further... Some vets can be just lazy when it comes to skin issues, and Atopica is not meant to be used until a diagnosis has been made. It's an easy way to mask symptoms, but it does not address the cause

Completely agree here. You need to get a full skin allergy work up done. It is a tad expensive, but considering you are spending €180/mth on meds that are not addressing the issue you need to bite the bullet and see a specialist.

I can give you the name of an excellent canine dermatolgist if you PM me.

Alternatively, listen to the above advice, Atopica is not a magic fix. It could be diet, internal or environmental....it could be something as simple as avoiding a certain substance/ingredient. I agree with DBB, your vet is not doing enough and you should stop wasting your money and ask for a referral.

Jules_G

anniehoo wrote: »

Completely agree here. You need to get a full skin allergy work up done. It is a tad expensive, but considering you are spending €180/mth on meds that are not addressing the issue you need to bite the bullet and see a specialist.

I can give you the name of an excellent canine dermatolgist if you PM me.

Alternatively, listen to the above advice, Atopica is not a magic fix. It could be diet, internal or environmental....it could be something as simple as avoiding a certain substance/ingredient. I agree with DBB, your vet is not doing enough and you should stop wasting your money and ask for a referral.

Hi
Thanks for the replies, and you are quite right.
We discussed all of the above last night and he's getting booked into a different vet hopefully this evening to get skin/allergy tests done. At least if we have some idea what he's allergic to we can eliminate/deal with it!
We are going to put him back on either the nature diet or raw as well and get him off the dry food. They are used to dry food all day, so our other house dog, Lionel will be an unhappy lurcher for a while lol

Our boy doesn't have a particular flare up, he's permanently itchy all over, there isn't a place on him that he's not sensitive to. It's such a shame as he's such a happy boy and since he retired and came indoors, he's in his element. I know his trouble isn't anything to do with the house as he was itchy outside too.

If he needs a referral to a specialist, I'll pm you for the details, anniehoo thank you

edit: he's booked into different vet tonight - I'll let you know how he gets on

DBB

Great stuff op, will be looking forward to hearing how ye get on!
And on a side note, Lionel is such a brilliant name for a lurcher, I lolled :-D

aonb

op, great that you are going to another vet to have your itchy boy checked out. Our dog has an itch that drives the poor dog nuts when it flares up, tho he has it constantly, it gets worse now/then. we have had this itch checked by several vets, including skin scrapings, but we have never found the cause. So be prepared for the vet to not be able to pinpoint the cause. I would recommend you ask your vet for a skin scraping though!

As the other replies have said, food is probably/most likely to be the cause. Our dog is definately better - not 100% but hugely improved - by moving him to a home-cooked meat and rice or potato diet.

Tranceypoo

Jules_G wrote: »

Hi
Thanks for the replies, and you are quite right.
We discussed all of the above last night and he's getting booked into a different vet hopefully this evening to get skin/allergy tests done. At least if we have some idea what he's allergic to we can eliminate/deal with it!
We are going to put him back on either the nature diet or raw as well and get him off the dry food. They are used to dry food all day, so our other house dog, Lionel will be an unhappy lurcher for a while lol

Our boy doesn't have a particular flare up, he's permanently itchy all over, there isn't a place on him that he's not sensitive to. It's such a shame as he's such a happy boy and since he retired and came indoors, he's in his element. I know his trouble isn't anything to do with the house as he was itchy outside too.

If he needs a referral to a specialist, I'll pm you for the details, anniehoo thank you

edit: he's booked into different vet tonight - I'll let you know how he gets on

Sorry, completely off topic but Lionel is such a great name, especially for a lurcher, it gave me a chuckle (in a nice way)!

Jules_G

I'll see if I can put some photos up of the boys I have one on boards somewhere, all 4 of our clan sat together

mymo

I love the name too, made me smile.
Hope you get this sorted, must be uncomfortable in this heat especially.

Jules_G

Well we took Sid to the vet

Vet seemed convinced his itching is environmental rather than food allergy because she said that the atopica doesn't generally work so well with food allergies. She asked about other medicines he's been on before, we said that he was on steroids first and they also helped him, which also convinced her it wasn't food as they also don't work very well with food allergies apparently.

We discussed his diet, blood tests, allergy tests but she seemed to think that because of his age (approx 11), he might be best off on steroids (cheaper than the atopica). We asked about blood tests, Vet said she could do them no trouble, but she is convinced it's not really worth doing for our boy at his age.

We are still going to put him on raw food and wean him off the dry food and then maybe see if we can get him off the steroids. she gave us cream for his legs (he chews them) and a steroid injection to get him started and steroid pills.

Poor thing has been through the ringer the past few years. He's not long recovered from Leptospirosis, which nearly killed him amongst other things he's had. Hopefully, he'll get some relief from this itching now.

aonb

Jules_g, this is just the process we followed with our oldie and his mysterious itch too. Steriods injection and then pills & creams initially. The vets couldnt find the source of the itch (although our dog doesnt sound as bad as yours - he wasnt 'eating' his paws - now that does sound environmental) We kept him on the steriods for a while to get everything to settle down, then gradually reduced the dosage over a long period. Changed his diet to home-cooked only, and got an over the counter cream (recommended by vet) called Cortopin 1%, which we use when hes particularly itchy. we give him a spoon of organic coconut oil (recommended here, other boardies recommend salmon oil for coats/skin) in his food every day plus a half tsp of a supplement called Bionic Biotic (www.poochandmutt.com/bionicbiotic) All these contribute to making the itch far less of an issue, though it hasnt gone away completely. Not recommending any or all of these to you for your dog, but you might find some help/idea's as time goes by with your chap. Hope he gets relief with the steriods very soon. Let us know how he does?

alexnapier101

Hello,

I have this problem with my jack Russell, we did all the diets and all the tests nothing helped. The vet put him on tablets called prednisolone (excuse the spelling) they work like a charm instant results. The cost about 10€ for a 2 month supply. Every vet I have used keeps them in stock.

Best things ever saved my little one lots of pain and suffering

DBB

Prednisolone is a steroid.
It suppresses immunity and as a result, calms the symptoms of an allergic reaction.
It is not a cure, it simply masks the symptoms, and becomes less effective over time.
Steroidal treatment comes with some pretty serious side effects, and many dogs treated with steroids, especially long term, end up developing and/or dying from conditions caused by steroids, not from the condition the steroids were used for.
They need to be treated with respect.
It disappoints me how so many vets throw them around like sweets when they get an itchy dog in. Whilst they have their uses, and they must be used with extreme care and have behavioural side effects too, to shove them into a dog without also investigating the cause fully, is just, as I said before, lazy vetting.
I wonder, when I hear itchy dog owners saying they've tried everything, including diet... What diets were tried? Not, by any chance, the "hypoallergenic" dry food sold by the vet?  

d9oiu2wk07blr5

DBB wrote: »

Prednisolone is a steroid.
It suppresses immunity and as a result, calms the symptoms of an allergic reaction.
It is not a cure, it simply masks the symptoms, and becomes less effective over time.
Steroidal treatment comes with some pretty serious side effects, and many dogs treated with steroids, especially long term, end up developing and/or dying from conditions caused by steroids, not from the condition the steroids were used for.
They need to be treated with respect.
It disappoints me how so many vets throw them around like sweets when they get an itchy dog in. Whilst they have their uses, and they must be used with extreme care and have behavioural side effects too, to shove them into a dog without also investigating the cause fully, is just, as I said before, lazy vetting.
I wonder, when I hear itchy dog owners saying they've tried everything, including diet... What diets were tried? Not, by any chance, the "hypoallergenic" dry food sold by the vet?

Not to mention the side effects of prednisolone where doggie may be at the increased risk of developing diabetes.