Arcade and Retro General Chat in Karkariko Village Tavern: Live Ocarina Music

o1s1n

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I'm in two minds about buying either Alien Isolation or Smash Bros tomorrow.
I have to wonder how much play the latter will get and I have a while bunch of fps on the PS4 already.
I've played the Smash Bros demo and our seems like manic but shallow fun.
Am I wrong?

You must be the man with the most unplayed games in Ireland! Focus on what you have first :P

By the way, anyone playing Steel Diver multiplayer on the 3DS? Its oddly addictive.

eddhorse

<rant>

That shadow of mordor game looks very assassin creedy !! The stealth, walking and jumping on rooftops looks almost identical,not to mention when the character balances on a beam. I know there is a fighting element too, so that is gong to be similar to the Batman games as it's the same developers. Button mashing.

</rant>

richymcdermott

Tried playing mario world again , i am finding it very boring , I just cannot get into it

Retr0gamer

richymcdermott wrote: »

Tried playing mario world again , i am finding it very boring , I just cannot get into it

Come back once you've gotten all 96 exits then you can talk. :P

richymcdermott

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Come back once you've gotten all 96 exits then you can talk. :P

I am trying to like it and at least beat it but its awful dull

eddhorse

richymcdermott wrote: »

I am trying to like it and at least beat it but its awful dull

What level are you on?

richymcdermott

eddhorse wrote: »

What level are you on?

One of the lava levels , do not recall exactly what part.

the groutch

Does anyone know if the Kirby's Triple Deluxe soundtrack CD is any good?

eddhorse

richymcdermott wrote: »

One of the lava levels , do not recall exactly what part.

Lava levels eh... Was gonna post a map but it would be a spoiler even after 22 years.

Touch Fuzzy Get Dizzy

eddhorse wrote: »

Lava levels eh...

Don't think I ever enjoyed a lava level in any game (did any body?)
Liked the lava reef zone music though

eddhorse

Sera wrote: »

Don't think I ever enjoyed a lava level in any game (did any body?)
Liked the lava reef zone music though

Agreed, always misery.

SM64 and Lava Land springs to mind.
http://youtu.be/ZuVcnArR5dQ

CiDeRmAn

I'm sorry but posting negative comments about Super Mario World, Shigsy Be Praised, is prohibited here.
To find it boring is indicative of a serious psychological aberration and will certainly require psychiatric reprofiling, psychotropic medications and both positive and negative physical reinforcement of desired and unwanted behaviours, namely hugs for loving the Mario and boots in the tail for finding fault.

Perhaps you'd be happier with Sonic Adventure?

eddhorse

Deconstructed controller art :
http://prints.ballenphotography.com/collections/frontpage

Retr0gamer

richymcdermott wrote: »

I am trying to like it and at least beat it but its awful dull

CiDeRmAn

Here's some help

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgO_Y7ejC6I

and for the Sega/Ninty confused here's the Vanilla Dome music played on a MD!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15mW0kJn6h8

Los Lobos

Nah the lava levels never bothered me, its the levels in the air where the screen slowly moves right itself, i have the fear of falling every time

richymcdermott

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I'm sorry but posting negative comments about Super Mario World, Shigsy Be Praised, is prohibited here.
To find it boring is indicative of a serious psychological aberration and will certainly require psychiatric reprofiling, psychotropic medications and both positive and negative physical reinforcement of desired and unwanted behaviours, namely hugs for loving the Mario and boots in the tail for finding fault.

Perhaps you'd be happier with Sonic Adventure?

Mario world is not Perfect though. I would argue that it feels awfully slippery compared to the nes games and the music and level design is less spectacular To mario bros 3.

Bosses are just as simple and boring as the ones in Sonic adventure.

Sonic 1,2,3 and sonic and knuckles were much more interesting and varied in design and mechanics

Mario difference in power ups are much more boring compared to super sayian sonic.

Sonic had the better composers and made much better use of its limited colour it could put out compared to SNES.

I would argue in favour of sonic games being better in 2d but mario wins in 3d transition.

Retr0gamer

richymcdermott wrote: »

Sonic had the better composers and made much better use of its limited colour it could put out compared to SNES.

Eh, how the hell can you say that about Koji Kondo. The man is a genius. The music in Mario world might not be as catchy as in sonic but it suits the game perfectly and gets stuck in your head. Koji Kondo studies the pace of the games he composes for and matches the tempo of the music to the pace of the game.

I'm not sure how you can say the game is too slippery either. When Nintendo make a game you make a small sandbox and tweak controls until they are perfect. Mario is pretty much the template for all platformer controls that came after it because they got them so perfect the first time. Mario World is just an iteration on that. I never had a problem with controls and there's no point blaming them for your own cack handedness.

Sonic might have more intricate physics and controls but it doesn't make use of them. Sonic's speed takes a back seat after the first stage in all his games because he's just uncontrollable at speed. Mario on the other hand takes it's simple mechanics and creates interesting set pieces and levels around them, constantly making them interesting without adding gimmicks that change the controls and what players expect. Sonic can be very guilty of this and in Sonic 3 with the noob barrel it was a total disaster.

Mario's power ups are boring? It doesn't matter because they work. They are simple but that's all they need to be. Super Saiyan Sonic pretty much breaks the game but it is an optional reward.

richymcdermott

Thats really ill excuse , why include power ups at all if they are not interesting or offer much difference in the first place ?

The music (catchy) offered alot less in mario world its less magicial.
Every lava
/underground level always ends up a remixed version of mario bros 1 and there is only so much opening theme to mario world you can take.


Slippery controls is bad design , yes the weight of the jump is perfect tuned but when mario lands and decides to slip to your death is not perfect and annoying.

Super saiyan sonic does break the game but its fun to use and completely optional once you collect all emeralds as a reward , not like the mario cape which you can literally bypass everything.

DinoRex

December 5th for Smash Bros Wii U!

CiDeRmAn

There'a grammar to be learned in Mario titles, and each seems to slightly change what went before, from using a beaver tail to using a cap, to a feathered cap, from triple jumps and wall jumps to wall climbs, and once you figure what the grammar is for each environment you're laughing.
The lava levels in SMB are challenging but, then, they are supposed to be.
Bowser always kept a healthy supply of castles constructed atop such geothermal features and for that we should be grateful, as it defines one of the great, if now stereotyped, environments in videogaming.
But, like Bond, nobody does it better than Mario, especially in Super Mario World, which is surely one of the greatest, if not the greatest, 2D platformers ever made.
Now, you can say that Sonic is better, you can hold that as a firmly held belief and be unflappable in the face of opposition, but believe me that the great weight of history is against you here, Sonic in his 2D form, in the original titles on the Megadrive, has never rated higher by critic reviews than the combined genius of Super Mario Bros 3 and Super Mario World, they are by any metric better than the Sonic titles on the Megadrive.
The is objective truth.
If you prefer Sonic at this point understand it is still valid but entirely subjective.

And on the use of music in SMW, it is simply superb, with clever reworking of various world themes in different musical styles and filters, using every instrument the Snes can render, brilliant.
Here's a live instrument, single man tribute to the entire thing, playable from the linked page, simply fantastic and serves to show how wonderful the original soundtrack remains,
link to aural bliss!

Here's a Youtube link to his version of the Vanilla Dome theme, seeing as we were talking about it earlier this thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9veU8iC39n8

Actually, turns out he has also produced a SMB3 album and a Kirby one, must get on and download them asap!

richymcdermott

Well I argue is that Mario is just Nostalgia Driven to its score than Sonic since alot of people probably started on Nes. I am not entirely sure at what atari games were like but I think it be fair to say Mario plays better than previous consoles games which look bollocks.

CiDeRmAn

Most people in Ireland who owned a Snes and played Super Mario World, which is probably most of them, doubtfully ever owned a NES or Super Mario Bros or its sequels on the format.
The NES wasn't huge here, the ST, Amiga and even the C64 and Speccy had all the traction in the mid to late 80's.
We knew Mario had a history alright, but the main game featuring the plumber that most people had played, prior to SMW, was probably Donkey Kong in the arcades or Super Mario Land on the Gameboy.
The Snes was, for many, the first Nintendo console they owned, aside from perhaps the Gameboy.

richymcdermott

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Most people in Ireland who owned a Snes and played Super Mario World, which is probably most of them, doubtfully ever owned a NES or Super Mario Bros or its sequels on the format.
The NES wasn't huge here, the ST, Amiga and even the C64 and Speccy had all the traction in the mid to late 80's.
We knew Mario had a history alright, but the main game featuring the plumber that most people had played, prior to SMW, was probably Donkey Kong in the arcades or Super Mario Land on the Gameboy.
The Snes was, for many, the first Nintendo console they owned, aside from perhaps the Gameboy.

Whats a Speccy , Amiga ??

eddhorse

Here's the map for ya.

Tomo.Murphy

richymcdermott wrote: »

Whats a Speccy , Amiga ??

ZX Spectrum. Similar to the C64.

DinoRex

Most people here had Megadrives. Don't think I knew anyone with a SNES back in the day.

Bulk of people had Amigas and C64s because the piracy was so easy.

richymcdermott

Everyone I knew had including myself had a megadrive and It introduced me to gaming so maybe I am leaning more of the Nostalgia side of things but I just prefer sonic games in the end as everyone knows at this stage :L

o1s1n

We had a great mix of consoles growing up. My cousin started with a speccy, then got a Nes when that came out and eventually moved onto a SNES.

Mate around the corner has a Nes with a mountain of games. Unfortunately his folks wouldn't get him a SNES as they thought it was a Nintendo scam they did eventually buy him an Amstrad green screen PC.

My richest friend had an A1200. Was the envy of us all.

Then I had a Megadrive and one of my older cousins had a Master System which I just found to be bizarre.

The Last Bandit

richymcdermott wrote: »

Whats a Speccy , Amiga ??

Seriously ?

CiDeRmAn

I had a ZX Spectrum, Gameboy, C64, Megadrive, Snes, another MD, then a 3DO, a PC, PS, N64, another PS, N64, Saturn and so on and so on....
I knew plenty who had an Amiga, some who had an ST, no one with a NES and no one with a Master System.

Perhaps it's your lack of exposure to the Snes back in the day that has tinted your view now, but there are plenty of folk who didn't own a Snes the first time around, some not even born in 91, and have found a love for Mario games, I would argue that, as character and a focus for an entire games franchise, a series of franchises at that and some would say the epicentre of Nintendo's whole business he has held up and been relevant, particularly in the handheld market, while Sonic has increasingly become irrelevant, with the last really popular Sonic game being in 2d on it's launch console and aside from that it was Sonic Adventure, after that it's been ever diminishing returns link
As opposed to this
other link

richymcdermott

The Last Bandit wrote: »

Seriously ?

I never heard of them , is that that a bad thing ?

o1s1n

richymcdermott wrote: »

I never heard of them , is that that a bad thing ?

Hand in your A&R card :P

CiDeRmAn

richymcdermott wrote: »

I never heard of them , is that that a bad thing ?

It's definitely not a good thing.
Gaming in the early 80's here was dominated by the ZX Spectrum and the Commodore 64, two 8bit computers that many parents bought hoping they'd teach their kids valuable skills in the cutting edge of tech and kids who just wanted to play Knight Lore and Uridium, not to mention Elite.

Much of what you love about the Megadrive originated on the Commodore Amiga, a business machine that did a damn fine job of videogames too.

Andrew76

Tomo.Murphy wrote: »

ZX Spectrum. Similar to the C64.

In the same way a Honda Civic is similar to LaFerrari! :pac:

DinoRex wrote: »

Most people here had Megadrives. Don't think I knew anyone with a SNES back in the day.

Bulk of people had Amigas and C64s because the piracy was so easy.

C64s and Amigas (or Atari STs) were the order of the day when I was growing up. On the console front it was all Nintendo - Gameboy, NES and SNES - I didn't know anyone with a Master System or Megadrive - guess I had friends with taste... (legs it! :P)

richymcdermott

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I had a ZX Spectrum, Gameboy, C64, Megadrive, Snes, another MD, then a 3DO, a PC, PS, N64, another PS, N64, Saturn and so on and so on....
I knew plenty who had an Amiga, some who had an ST, no one with a NES and no one with a Master System.

Perhaps it's your lack of exposure to the Snes back in the day that has tinted your view now, but there are plenty of folk who didn't own a Snes the first time around, some not even born in 91, and have found a love for Mario games, I would argue that, as character and a focus for an entire games franchise, a series of franchises at that and some would say the epicentre of Nintendo's whole business he has held up and been relevant, particularly in the handheld market, while Sonic has increasingly become irrelevant, with the last really popular Sonic game being in 2d on it's launch console and aside from that it was Sonic Adventure, after that it's been ever diminishing returns link
As opposed to this
other link

Awhile back my dad pulled out a snes in one of the black bags out of the attic which I assume I had a snes once upon a time but I not remember ever having it.

My uncle gave me a nes I remember with shadowgate and mario bros 3 being the only two games I can remember playing.

With the megadrive I could tell you 90% of my catalog before my mother selling it to fund a ps1 for me for my 8th birthday.

had a gameboy pocket with mario land 1 and 2.

I was really all playstation after Megadrive till around getting a wii in 2011 and it was merely a console my famly could play toether in the sitting room.


I can appreciate Mario games and the legacy but something I probably will never stand is the love its gets for its level design.

The Last Bandit

We all grew up with home computers (early 80's), didn't know anyone with a console back then apart from the ubiquitous pong clones.

Amstrads, Commodores, occasional idiot with an Atari all filled the school yards:) Ya piracy was easier but games were a hell of lot cheaper too than NES/SMS carts.

You're doing yourself a disservice by not firing up an emulator and trying some 8 bit classics (beware there was also a lot of poo produced).

eddhorse

I had a NES and c64, my mate had snes and Super Mario world, so that's where I played it. It is brilliant. I love it.

Tomo.Murphy

Andrew76 wrote: »

In the same way a Honda Civic is similar to LaFerrari! :pac:

Probably an over-simplification on my part, ha. The home computer stuff was all before my time. I remember my cousins having a C64. That would have been around the mid 90s. I didn't even know the Spectrum existed until much more recently.

Retr0gamer

richymcdermott wrote: »

Thats really ill excuse , why include power ups at all if they are not interesting or offer much difference in the first place ?

It's not an ill excuse. There's no point having crazy power ups if they break the game or they stop the game being fun. Mario's power ups are perfectly chosen and tuned so that they work within the confines of the game. They work well within the game and make it fun. Check out any Mario fan hack to see how something crazy can totally break a games fun factor.

richymcdermott wrote: »

Slippery controls is bad design , yes the weight of the jump is perfect tuned but when mario lands and decides to slip to your death is not perfect and annoying.

It's a perfect example of excellent design, some would say perfect design. Mario slips when he lands, it's something you have to learn. It's never unfair because Mario's slip is always the same and always predictable. If you hit the ground at a certain speed he will slip a certain amount and you have to compensate for it. The player is always in control so even though it can be frustrating it's always the players fault. The player compensating for Mario's inertia is what mastering the game is about. Lest we not forget that Sonic's physics and movement aren't about speed (something a lot of people wrongly think) at all in the 16-bit games but all about inertia as well. Mario is always fair which Sonic isn't sometimes.

Mario's controls are pretty much held up as an example of excellent control systems and are used to teach game developers.

richymcdermott wrote: »

Super saiyan sonic does break the game but its fun to use and completely optional once you collect all emeralds as a reward , not like the mario cape which you can literally bypass everything.

Mario's cape only works in a few levels and usually those levels that are open and can be bypassed usually have secrets that need the cape to discover them. Also the cape is very difficult to control. Someone is not going to pick up the cape and bypass every level their first time. They probably won't master it until their second playthrough and then they have a new play thing that opens the game up even more. In fact the ability to abuse the cape is something you need in the star world to progress if you want all 96 exits. It's an example of how Nintendo have perfectly balanced an aspect of the game and made it replayable and rewarding to master. Super Saiyan sonic on the other hand is just invincible sonic and the game is actually less fun once you unlock him.

I got a megadrive pretty late and was a big Sega fanboy. However I always knew Mario was better than any other platformer I was playing on my C64 and Megadrive and used to be so annoyed it was never converted

Andrew76

Retr0gamer wrote: »

However I always knew Mario was better than any other platformer I was playing on my C64 and Megadrive and used to be so annoyed it was never converted

The Great Giana Sisters was a pretty decent Mario clone for the C64, not as good but decent all the same. Couldn't complain when it only cost you the time to copy one tape to another in your twin deck stereo (or 'ghetto blaster' ).

I would've spent more time with Manic Miner (god almighty the collision detection!), Monty Mole, Mission Impossible, Turrican, Dizzy etc when it came to platformers (not strictly platformers I guess but close enough).

Retr0gamer

Loved the Turrican games on C64 but the one I played the most was Bubble Bobble which was a cracking conversion on C64.

Andrew76

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Loved the Turrican games on C64 but the one I played the most was Bubble Bobble which was a cracking conversion on C64.

Very true. Bubble Bobble was brilliant. Rainbow Islands pretty great too iirc. The music in those games are very memorable.

DinoRex

Trouble with the C64 platformers was bloody pushing up to jump. Of course at the time I didn't know any better.

Andrew76

DinoRex wrote: »

Trouble with the C64 platformers was bloody pushing up to jump. Of course at the time I didn't know any better.

That was one of the biggest differences between computer and console platformers alright. It was the first thing I noticed/struggled with when I went back and played Superfrog on the Amiga a while ago - I had gotten used to pressing a button to jump, felt very strange not having that ability. Pressing up makes more logical sense I guess but not as fun to play.

CiDeRmAn

I loved my Speccy but it was a very different beast to the C64, whose games bore far more resemblance to arcade games.
That said, the speccy was a decent machine, or rather a cheap machine that developers got a lot out of.
Star Strike 3D and Tank Duel 3D were both early games on the Spectrum and yet were brilliant versions of Star Wars and Battlezone, in some regards superior.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eAVWZGYtHk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioZv5-mLDmY

Retr0gamer

When it came to sprites and scrolling the spectrum was a dog and only the best developers got anything close to what the C64 could do with sprites. For pure maths based stuff though like Vectors the speccy wiped the floor with the C64.

The Last Bandit

Retr0gamer wrote: »

When it came to sprites and scrolling the spectrum was a dog and only the best developers got anything close to what the C64 could do with sprites. For pure maths based stuff though like Vectors the speccy wiped the floor with the C64.

Spectrum had a microprocessor, C64 didn't.

DinoRex

The Last Bandit wrote: »

Spectrum had a microprocessor, C64 didn't.

Of course it had a microprocessor. Microprocessors were the whole reason we had small home computers like the Spectrum and C64.

The C64 had the 6510.

The Last Bandit

Had a 'microcontroller' not a microprocessor