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A compulsory 'Broadcast tax' next on the list for homes in Ireland

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    #422
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    Any business that can get bridging loans on the basis of their financial plan. RTE were quite financially secure up until recently.
    Creative excuses right there ^
    No guff required to see that their financial position hasn't cost you anything.
    Yes it has, I have been paying for a PBS for over 30 yrs and I don't have a proper one. What I do have is a bloated semi state body that is clinging to it's elite position and is being aided by government.


    I'm not looking - it's your claim after all.
    I claimed it costs millions all in and you said it didn't. Neither of us can produce figures which proves something....that this isn't a transparent organisation.



    I'm not talking about the PWC document.
    Here's the link for you again:
    http://www.bai.ie/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/20130619_BAI-Recommendations-to-Minister-with-Addendum_FINAL_CC.pdf

    Neither was I talking abut the PWC doc.


    That 30 seconds per issue? That's nearly a full half hour a year, out of a 30 grand salary!
    Do all the ads in the guide take 30 secs per issue? :eek: What do all those graphic designers do for the rest of the year, I think we have stumbled onto something here!


    How do you know they weren't?
    :rolleyes:

    Wanna bet?


  • Options
    #423
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Godge wrote: »
    It is great to see someone who seems to have loads of ideas on how to cure the ills of public service broadcasting. I linked earlier to a report carried out by the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland on public service broadcasting, see again the post below.




    I have been looking again at the site and notice that the BAI have launched a public consultation phase on their strategy.

    http://www.bai.ie/?p=3780

    People have until 22nd October to make their submissions. It would be great if some of the experts arguing here about the nature of public service broadcasting and the role of RTE would post a copy of any submission that they make to the public consultation.

    Something other than hot air from the discussion would be great.


    Talking of hot air and the BAI. Could it be said that the BAI is fulfilling its own aims under the Broadcasting Act of 2009?

    The Broadcasting Act 2009 sets out a range of other objectives for the Authority which include:
    stimulating the provision of high quality, diverse, and innovative programming

    sustains independent and impartial journalism
    The Act aims to increase transparency in the governance of broadcasting in Ireland, thereby promoting legitimacy, accountability and fair procedures in the provision of high-quality, diverse and innovative programming. Particular functions under the Act relate to the BAI’s oversight of public service broadcasters and the allocation of public funding.


    Not doing so well in these three areas. Needs to do better, a lot better not just be an RTE lackey.


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    #424
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Creative excuses right there ^
    Not really.
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Yes it has, I have been paying for a PBS for over 30 yrs and I don't have a proper one. What I do have is a bloated semi state body that is clinging to it's elite position and is being aided by government.
    And (moving past the obvious subjective opinions) how has this cost you anything?

    Happyman42 wrote: »
    I claimed it costs millions all in and you said it didn't. Neither of us can produce figures which proves something....that this isn't a transparent organisation.
    An Post? Shesh! They're all at it, aren't they?

    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Neither was I talking abut the PWC doc.
    So - how is the BAI review 'self serving'? That doesn't really make much sense tbh.


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Do all the ads in the guide take 30 secs per issue? :eek: What do all those graphic designers do for the rest of the year, I think we have stumbled onto something here!
    I'm a graphic designer. Art directed a number of magazines over the years. I think I know what I'm talking about. 30 seconds for an existing artwork ad placement is the norm.

    Happyman42 wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    Wanna bet?
    Not really - can you point to anything that supports your contention?


  • Options
    #425
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    No guff required to see that their financial position hasn't cost you anything.

    The quality of programming has declined so the viewer loses out.


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    #426
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Not doing so well in these three areas..

    They're not?


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    #427
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    The quality of programming has declined so the viewer loses out.

    Not financially, they don't.


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    #428
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    alastair wrote: »
    They're not?

    No.


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    #429
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    No.

    Any actual evidence to support this claim? Or is it just bluster?


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    #430
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    alastair wrote: »
    Not financially, they don't.

    Viewers are not getting value for the fee, compared to, for example, times when programming was better. So the viewer still loses out as the fee has to be paid no matter what rubbish is put out, as RTE is in debt.


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    #431
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Viewers are not getting value for the fee, compared to, for example, times when programming was better. So the viewer still loses out as the fee has to be paid no matter what rubbish is put out, as RTE is in debt.

    Again - How does this cost you anything financially?


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    #432
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Talking of hot air and the BAI. Could it be said that the BAI is fulfilling its own aims under the Broadcasting Act of 2009?

    The Broadcasting Act 2009 sets out a range of other objectives for the Authority which include:








    Not doing so well in these three areas. Needs to do better, a lot better not just be an RTE lackey.


    So do you intend making a submission as part of the public consultation with facts and information to back it up?


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    #433
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Godge wrote: »
    So do you intend making a submission as part of the public consultation with facts and information to back it up?

    Absolutely. I would go in person if it was open as a pubic meeting for people to say what they want. :)


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    #434
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    alastair wrote: »
    Again - How does this cost you anything financially?

    Licence fee?


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    #435
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Absolutely. I would go in person if it was open as a pubic meeting for people to say what they want. :)

    Hopefully armed with something more than bluster?


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    #436
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Licence fee?

    No - that's stayed the same, regardless of quality of programming, or RTE's debt situation.


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    #437
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    alastair wrote: »
    Again - How does this cost you anything financially?

    Let's look at sky's/upc business model.

    Subscription fee = Channel choice/package.

    Entertainment package standards declined? Adjust subscription package accordingly.

    RTE, standards going south? = tough. Pay up.

    Seriously. :confused:


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    #438
    CptMackey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭CptMackey


    SamHall wrote: »
    Let's look at sky's/upc business model.

    Subscription fee = Channel choice/package.

    Entertainment package standards declined? Adjust subscription package accordingly.

    RTE, standards going south? = tough. Pay up.

    Seriously. :confused:
    This is my major gripe with this outdated model.
    Nothing changes in rte. If I didn't want sky I could opt out

    Not so with this lot


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    #439
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    SamHall wrote: »
    Let's look at sky's/upc business model.

    Subscription fee = Channel choice/package.

    Entertainment package standards declined? Adjust subscription package accordingly.

    RTE, standards going south? = tough. Pay up.

    Seriously. :confused:

    That's funny - Sky's subs have only risen - despite cutbacks in their offering. Let me know when Sky drop their subs when they remove channels - never mind the quality of programming.


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    #440
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    CptMackey wrote: »
    . If I didn't want sky I could opt out

    At a price
    http://help.sky.com/my-account/billing-and-subscription/charges-for-ending-your-sky-contract-early?country=ie


  • Options
    #441
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »


    And (moving past the obvious subjective opinions) how has this cost you anything?

    The waste incurred in the spending of my licence fee. According to P. Rabbitte, 500 staff have been let go and 800 million saved in the last 2 years since he became the responsible minister and there has been no glaringly visible difference (to the consumer) in the service.


    An Post? Shesh! They're all at it, aren't they?
    I have no idea what this means.


    So - how is the BAI review 'self serving'? That doesn't really make much sense tbh.
    Because it is a...
    review of the public funding of RTÉ and TG4 is a very important element in the broadcasting legislation
    and comes at a crucial time in the development of
    the media in Ireland[/QUOTE]

    ...and not an exhaustive examination of what PSB means in an Irish context and how we should implement one.

    I'm a graphic designer. Art directed a number of magazines over the years. I think I know what I'm talking about. 30 seconds for an existing artwork ad placement is the norm.
    So if I was getting you to do a mag every month with repeat advertising you would be charging for 30 secs work on each ad?

    Pass on your business details I might be able to get you some work! :rolleyes:


    Not really - can you point to anything that supports your contention?
    How every other semi state, local authority, civil service dept. is and has been run in this country. Shocking waste of public monies.


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  • Options
    #442
    CptMackey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭CptMackey


    alastair wrote: »
    At a price
    http://help.sky.com/my-account/billing-and-subscription/charges-for-ending-your-sky-contract-early?country=ie

    Ya but I'll end up going to prison if I don't pay pat rabbits new made up charge.

    Can't opt out of rte no matter what I do


  • Options
    #443
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    The waste incurred in the spending of my licence fee. According to P. Rabbitte, 500 staff have been let go and 800 million saved in the last 2 years since he became the responsible minister and there has been no glaringly visible difference (to the consumer) in the service.
    An opinion not widely shared here it seems.

    Happyman42 wrote: »
    I have no idea what this means.
    RTE and An Post are seemingly non-transparent.


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Because it is a...
    review of the public funding of RTÉ and TG4 is a very important element in the broadcasting legislation
    and comes at a crucial time in the development of
    the media in Ireland

    ...and not an exhaustive examination of what PSB means in an Irish context and how we should implement one.
    It's a review of PBS funding, and recommendations for changes to the same.

    Happyman42 wrote: »
    So if I was getting you to do a mag every month with repeat advertising you would be charging for 30 secs work on each ad?

    Pass on your business details I might be able to get you some work! :rolleyes:
    I'd be charging you for the promotional benefit the adverts brought your business. That it takes 30 seconds is of no consequence to the benefits the ad accrues for you.

    Happyman42 wrote: »
    How every other semi state, local authority, civil service dept. is and has been run in this country. Shocking waste of public monies.
    Well - that's your colours nailed to the mast.


  • Options
    #444
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    alastair wrote: »
    At a price
    http://help.sky.com/my-account/billing-and-subscription/charges-for-ending-your-sky-contract-early?country=ie

    What's your point?

    That differs from any other minimum contract service How exactly:confused:

    also, at least there is an option to opt out.

    Pat wants to introduce a compulsive yearly fee, with no get out clause regardless if you even have the equipment needed to receive/use?

    Please tell me your joking here.


  • Options
    #445
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    CptMackey wrote: »
    Ya but I'll end up going to prison if I don't pay pat rabbits new made up charge.

    Can't opt out of rte no matter what I do

    I doubt you'll go to prison - it'll likely be tagged on to another bill/tax, so it'll be tricky to evade.

    You can't opt out of supporting public service broadcasting if this legislation passes, no.


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    #446
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    SamHall wrote: »
    What's your point?

    That opting out of a Sky sub has a cost.

    No comment on the ever-upward trajectory of Sky subs, regardless of the removal of services? That's the model you propose as better?


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    #447
    spank_inferno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,892 ✭✭✭spank_inferno


    alastair wrote: »
    That opting out of a Sky sub has a cost.

    No comment on the ever-upward trajectory of Sky subs, regardless of the removal of services? That's the model you propose as better?

    Opt out has just a 31 day notice if you are outside contract.
    Afterwards the dish, cabling & decoder box are yours to keep.

    Upswing in subs is down to many analogue users opting for Sky at the digital switchover.
    Sky Atlantic has alsohelped draw subs.


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    #448
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Happyman42 wrote: »

    Because it is a...
    review of the public funding of RTÉ and TG4 is a very important element in the broadcasting legislation
    and comes at a crucial time in the development of
    the media in Ireland









    How every other semi state, local authority, civil service dept. is and has been run in this country. Shocking waste of public monies.[/QUOTE]

    Not every one runs at a loss you know.


  • Options
    #449
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    alastair wrote: »
    That opting out of a Sky sub has a cost.

    Early termination of a voluntary contract has a cost. As does most subscription based contracts. Move along nothing to see here folks.

    (or am I misinterpreting you?)

    alastair wrote: »
    No comment on the ever-upward trajectory of Sky subs, regardless of the removal of services? That's the model you propose as better?

    If sky becomes too expeneive/crap entertainment value I can leave them.

    Will this new compulsive charge being proposed give me such an option?


  • Options
    #450
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    spank_inferno wrote: »
    Upswing in subs is down to many analogue users opting for Sky at the digital switchover.
    Sky Atlantic has alsohelped draw subs.

    I was talking about the upward trajectory in sub costs, rather than subs uptake. :)


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    #451
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    SamHall wrote: »
    If sky becomes too expeneive/crap entertainment value I can leave them.

    Will this new compulsive charge being proposed give me such an option?

    You were compelled to pay it already. Nothing changes for you.


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