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A compulsory 'Broadcast tax' next on the list for homes in Ireland

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    #572
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Is that case dissmissed then? Better let the judge know.

    Ehh - "which the courts will establish was not the case."

    Nothing about a dismissal there.


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    #573
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    Ehh - "which the courts will establish was not the case."

    Nothing about a dismissal there.


    You still need to tell the judge and the court that they are wasting their time.


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    #574
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    You still need to tell the judge and the court that they are wasting their time.

    Why would they be wasting their time? It's their job to determine guilt or otherwise.


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    #575
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    It's their job to determine guilt or otherwise.

    Glad we cleared that up, for a minute there I thought it was your job.


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    #576
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Glad we cleared that up, for a minute there I thought it was your job.

    You did? That's a strange reading:
    (which the courts will establish was not the case)


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    #577
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    You did? That's a strange reading:


    (which the courts will establish was not the case)


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    #578
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    (which the courts will establish was not the case)

    and? How does that imply anything about a judgement being my job? :o


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    #579
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    and? How does that imply anything about a judgement being my job? :o

    It was you who felt compelled to say it. 'Will or will not' is the phrase you where looking for.


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    #580
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    It was you who felt compelled to say it. 'Will or will not' is the phrase you where looking for.

    Not really. He's got a terrible case.


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    #581
    Steve012
    Registered Users Posts: 938 ✭✭✭Steve012


    More money for nothing... way anchors :mad:


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    #582
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    And so it begins.
    RTE has delivered a veiled threat to the Government that it will struggle to fund public-service news programming, plus its radio dramas, classical station lyric fm and the national orchestras.

    The semi-state broadcaster released a five-year blueprint to "stabilise" RTE for the future – which set out a bid for a "modest" increase in public funding.

    The TV licence fee of €160 is "significantly" below the European average, the report notes.

    Noel Curran, director general of RTE, said they had been "working hard to reshape" RTE for the future.

    "We have been through five turbulent years, and now we need to look forward," he said.

    It depicts a 'leaner' broadcaster, which has cut its cost-base by over €100m since 2008, with staff levels down by one-fifth and pay cuts implemented.

    Yet, as RTE was undergoing major cost-cutting, so too were advertisers, with a 35pc fall-off over a four-year period.

    RTE's content and schedules have suffered in the cutbacks and it has lost audience share. It warned this was "not sustainable" as it was dual-funded and smaller audiences meant less income from adverts.

    First indications of a price hike?

    Poor auld TV3 however.....
    But at the same event, TV3 chief executive David McRedmond assailed RTE for its dominance in what he believes is an unfair market. "RTE's budget is about six times greater than its only competitor," he claimed

    http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/tv-radio/rte-warns-state-its-facing-big-struggle-to-fund-content-29584472.html


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    #583
    spank_inferno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,892 ✭✭✭spank_inferno


    You didnt think Phat Rabbitte was telling the truth when he promised no rise in this poll tax did you?


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    #584
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    spank_inferno wrote: »
    You didnt think Phat Rabbitte was telling the truth when he promised no rise in this poll tax did you?

    I must have missed the part where the licence fee was actually raised.


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    #585
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Banjo String wrote: »
    And so it begins.



    First indications of a price hike?

    Poor auld TV3 however.....



    http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/tv-radio/rte-warns-state-its-facing-big-struggle-to-fund-content-29584472.html

    And still no debate about what a 'national broadcaster' should be.
    For instance, Lyric FM and 5 orchestras and choirs which cater to an elite and cost the taxpayer (most of whom have no interest) a huge amount of money(some estimates claim 1million a month for the orchestras and choirs) have survived in this so called 'rationalisation and restructuring'? I don't remember ever being asked did I think this is a neccesary function of a 'national broadcaster'.
    It's all optics and spin to save a doomed and traditionally cosseted enterprise, it just remains to be seen how much it will cost us all until realities finally dawn.


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    #586
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    For instance, Lyric FM and 5 orchestras and choirs which cater to an elite

    What 'elite' would that be? People who like classical music? :rolleyes:


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    #587
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    What 'elite' would that be? People who like classical music? :rolleyes:

    Yes it is an 'elite' in this case. A dedicated channel and 5 fulltime orchestras and choirs to the exclusion of other musical styles and genres not to mention other artforms and practice?

    Whatever your opinion of classical music, is it the function of an 'national broadcaster' to exclusively support it to this extent?


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    #588
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Yes it is an 'elite' in this case. A dedicated channel and 5 fulltime orchestras and choirs to the exclusion of other musical styles and genres not to mention other artforms and practice?

    Whatever your opinion of classical music, is it the function of an 'national broadcaster' to exclusively support it to this extent?

    It is to be honest. Orchestras typically are not a commercially economic proposition, but definitely enrich the cultural quality of society. It's complete nonsense to suggest Lyric FM only covers a single musical genre - same story for the orchestras and choirs. Any 'elitism' is in your head.

    The cost of the RTE orchestras compare very favourably to similar set-ups in the UK.


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    #589
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    It is to be honest. Orchestras typically are not a commercially economic proposition, but definitely enrich the cultural quality of society. It's complete nonsense to suggest Lyric FM only covers a single musical genre - same story for the orchestras and choirs. Any 'elitism' is in your head.

    The cost of the RTE orchestras compare very favourably to similar set-ups in the UK.

    Answer the question, is it the function of a 'national broadcaster' to exclusively support it to the extent that it does?
    Why are RTE not on the hook for supporting Ballet for instance, it can't support itself through interest in it, after all?


    p.s.I am using the term 'elitist' to mean that Lyric and the orchestras cater for a tiny minority, and not as some sort of derogotory term as you seem to think. As it happens I have an interest in those artforms myself.


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    #590
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Answer the question, is it the function of a 'national broadcaster' to exclusively support it to the extent that it does?
    Why are RTE not on the hook for supporting Ballet for instance, it can't support itself through interest in it, after all?

    I'm not sure why you can't take yes as an answer?

    The state mandated RTE to administer the orchestras - that's why they do. Other artforms that aren't commercially viable are supported under the auspices of the Arts Council. Would shifting responsibility for funding the orchestras from RTE to the Arts Council make you any happier? If so, why?

    Classical music and orchestral performances are no 'tiny minority interest' btw - they just happen to cost a bucketload to support, given the logistics.


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    #591
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    I'm not sure why you can't take yes as an answer?

    The state mandated RTE to administer the orchestras - that's why they do. Other artforms that aren't commercially viable are supported under the auspices of the Arts Council. Would shifting responsibility for funding the orchestras from RTE to the Arts Council make you any happier? If so, why?

    Classical music and orchestral performances are no 'tiny minority interest' btw - they just happen to cost a bucketload to support, given the logistics.

    The state 'mandated' it to be the 'national broadcaster'. By your own addmission it has cut programming but yet it still maintains 5 orchestras and choirs?
    I'm not concerned about 'who' should subsidise these artforms but I am concerned on how it impinges on the quality and resources of our so called 'national broadcaster'.
    If you could step away from the hidebound defence and think about it for a while you might see the point I am making.
    We need a full and proper review of what a 'national broadcaster' actually is and what it can be in the future, with a full and frank discussion of what will affect that ability.
    What we don't need is the usual head in the sand, denial of realities and cuts and changes made for politically expedient optics.


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    #592
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    The state 'mandated' it to be the 'national broadcaster'. By your own addmission it has cut programming but yet it still maintains 5 orchestras and choirs?
    I'm not concerned about 'who' should subsidise these artforms but I am concerned on how it impinges on the quality and resources of our so called 'national broadcaster'.
    If you could step away from the hidebound defence and think about it for a while you might see the point I am making.
    We need a full and proper review of what a 'national broadcaster' actually is and what it can be in the future, with a full and frank discussion of what will affect that ability.
    What we don't need is the usual head in the sand, denial of realities and cuts and changes made for politically expedient optics.

    Yes - the state handed responsibility for running and funding the orchestras to RTE - back in the 1940's. It made sense then, and it's remained the case since then. I've no objection to shifting responsibility across to the Arts Council - but it won't save you a cent - they're already run at a benefit-to-cost ratio that's competitive with their UK equivalents.

    There's nothing 'politically expedient' in retaining the orchestras under the umbrella of RTE - this is your own fantasy (along with a desire for another review of national broadcasting funding).


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    #593
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    Yes - the state handed responsibility for running and funding the orchestras to RTE - back in the 1940's. It made sense then, and it's remained the case since then. I've no objection to shifting responsibility across to the Arts Council - but it won't save you a cent - they're already run at a benefit-to-cost ratio that's competitive with their UK equivalents.
    Yes, it was a decision made in another era, it needs review in the context of what a 'national broadcaster' should be, now and into the future.

    The point was never about saving me or you a cent, it was about 'actually functioning as a proper national broadcaster'
    I happen to think that we also need full and frank review of the Arts Council too, but that is another thread.
    There's nothing 'politically expedient' in retaining the orchestras under the umbrella of RTE - this is your own fantasy.
    That is not what I meant, what RTE have done to 'survive' is spin and politically expedient, as it is just kicking the can down the road.


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    #594
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Yes, it was a decision made in another era, it needs review in the context of what a 'national broadcaster' should be, now and into the future.

    The point was never about saving me or you a cent, it was about 'actually functioning as a proper national broadcaster'
    I happen to think that we also need full and frank review of the Arts Council too, but that is another thread.

    That is not what I meant, what RTE have done to 'survive' is spin and politically expedient, as it is just kicking the can down the road.

    I suspect you're pretty much in a 'tiny minority' in having any issue with who administers the orchestras. Linking national orchestras with national broadcasters has an obvious logic, and is common enough - it's not like this is some bizzaro invention of RTE's. Another broadcasting review would simply be a wasteful distraction from the important facts on the ground - how to respond to a scenario of reduced state funding and advertising revenue.

    RTE have done far more than spin btw - they've applied what are probably the most extensive cuts applied to any semi-state body in order to survive. Not so sure what's politically expedient about that.


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    #595
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    alastair wrote: »
    I suspect you're pretty much in a 'tiny minority' in having any issue with who administers the orchestras.
    Is that as 'tiny' a minority as that which is prepared to pay to listen to 5 Orchestras and choirs?
    Linking national orchestras with national broadcasters has an obvious logic, and is common enough - it's not like this is some bizzaro invention of RTE's.
    No argument about how common it is, but it needs review, there has been plenty of discussion in the media about how RTE are not fullfilling their remit in properly supporting the orchestra and consequently new music. Again, review and reform is neccesary in the interests of all the stakeholders.
    Another broadcasting review would simply be a wasteful distraction from the important facts on the ground - how to respond to a scenario of reduced state funding and advertising revenue.
    Isn't that what the purpose of any review would be?
    All they have done is come up with a doomed strategy to retain the failing and terminal status quo. The patient may be comfortable but ultimately is dying.
    RTE have done far more than spin btw - they've applied what are probably the most extensive cuts applied to any semi-state body in order to survive. Not so sure what's politically expedient about that.

    And the discussion is about, 'will they work?'. They won't, because a proper review was never held.


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    #596
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Is that as 'tiny' a minority as that which is prepared to pay to listen to 5 Orchestras and choirs?.
    Well, the NCO managed to get more than a quarter of a million ticket-buying punters through it's doors annually, so yes, I'd say rather smaller.
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    No argument about how common it is, but it needs review,
    Not really. It's a proven formula.
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    there has been plenty of discussion in the media about how RTE are not fullfilling their remit in properly supporting the orchestra and consequently new music.
    Plenty? I think you exaggerate.
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Again, review and reform is neccesary in the interests of all the stakeholders.
    Isn't that what the purpose of any review would be?
    All they have done is come up with a doomed strategy to retain the failing and terminal status quo. The patient may be comfortable but ultimately is dying.
    RTE retain extremely high listenership and viewers - they dominate the broadcasting audience by a mile. They're far from failure.

    Happyman42 wrote: »
    And the discussion is about, 'will they work?'. They won't, because a proper review was never held.
    Sez you - but you're not particularly convincing in making the case.


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    #597
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    alastair wrote: »
    Well, the NCO managed to get more than a quarter of a million ticket-buying punters through it's doors annually, so yes, I'd say rather smaller.

    Spot the spin.


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    #598
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    mikom wrote: »
    Spot the spin.

    You dispute the fact?


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    #599
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    alastair wrote: »
    You dispute the fact?

    Is a hall an orchestra?


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    #600
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    mikom wrote: »
    Is a hall an orchestra?

    It's the home venue of the orchestras. It's where you go to see them perform, unless they're touring - so additional ticket sales there too.


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    #601
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    alastair wrote: »
    It's the home venue of the orchestras. It's where you go to see them perform, unless they're touring - so additional ticket sales there too.


    Who else performs in the hall, Mr spin?
    You know........... the one with the doors.

    NCO vs NCH.


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