what is a good wage these days?

gaius c

Geuze wrote: »

I am surprised that average annual earnings in FIRE Finance, Insurance and Real Estate has risen by 4.2% between 2009 and 2012, to reach 51,389.

That's an average earning of nearly 1,000 pw in these sectors.

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/earnings/2012/earnlabcosts2012.pdf

Last in first out for redundancies so the people cut are lower waged and the average wage actually increases.

gaius c

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Finally, if you can reach 50k, there is feck all stopping you from reaching 75k down the line once sufficiently motivated.

Hey Bill. How have you been holding up since you lost the Renault franchise?

gaius c

JohnMearsheimer wrote: »

Reading this thread has depressed me a little. I make 18,500 euro working 35 hours a week for a multinational insurance company. After deductions I'm left with 1,381 euro a month. Out of that I pay 285 euro in rent plus bills. I'm fortunate I do not have any debt and I do not run a car. I get by month to month, I can't really save a whole lot on my earnings. I note the Morgan McKinley salary survey states the low end of the pay scale for my job is 25,000 euro. I'd love to be making in the region of 25,000 plus.

Sorry to hear that you're in such a situation but if it's any consolation, the Morgan McKinley report is a piece of fantasy. I'm an engineer and part of my job is looking at quotes & seeing peoples' rates. MMcK report seems to be based on the rates charged to the client, not what the actual workers get. The only engineers from my peer group getting the kind of money the MMcK reports seems to suggest we should be getting are self-employed and running all the risks that entails.

DarkDusk

Carlowgirl wrote: »

Just wondering what is considered a decent average take home wage these days for both males and females. I know during the boom 750 e may have been average. but surely that has come down now. also what makes an irish person middle class these days.? just wondering? I was thinking 500-550 as an average?

A good wage?

On jobs?

What jobs?

:P

Randomfriend

Go away with your money!!

I'm a recent graduate from art college (haha you say), working part time (2/3 days per week) to pay for my Masters, I get €10.80 per hour. Given I have no qualification in that field.. I assume that's a pretty decent wage (working reception in a hotel which includes doing end of day paperwork and reports etc.) or is it ****e?

I'm just living day by day, have been for years now and don't see any light at the end of the tunnel, I'm just glad I've been able to avoid taking out any loans, yet..

maninasia

JohnMearsheimer wrote: »

I'd still jump on a 36k per year position. The combined income of myself and my girlfriend would be 70k gross in that scenario. As long as we didn't do anything stupid I'm sure we could get married, get a mortgage etc...

My current salary doesn't really afford me much of a lifestyle. I don't do much more than exist off it. Other people I work with have loans and cars etc. I have no idea how they survive on our salary. Even being on 22/23k instead of 18.5 k a year would be a vast improvement for me as I'd have a bit of breathing room. I got paid more for my first job out of college, I feel I'm going backwards if anything.

If this job doesn't offer some fairly rapid career advancement you should look for another soon or think seriously about emigrating.

The Corinthian

maninasia wrote: »

If this job doesn't offer some fairly rapid career advancement you should look for another soon or think seriously about emigrating.

In my experience (I've never held such a position, but known plenty who do), there's very little scope for advancement; perhaps to leading a team or department of people doing such a job, but naturally there are few openings for that, regardless of what HR will tell you.

Such white collar slavery is generally staffed by:

• People when the job market is very bad and can't get anything else.
• Graduates who simply need any experience at just being employed in any office job.
• Long term unemployed who need to get back on a career path and prove they can hold down a job.
• People with personal issues that have difficulty holding down a job.
• People with little interest in a career and are just looking to pay the bills long enough for someone with an actual career to marry them.
• A combination of the above.

As such, going up the ladder realistically involves doing part-time courses and/or just finding a better job, often unrelated to the low-paid one that is currently paying the bills.

Corporations can afford to staff them in countries like Ireland because we churn out more well-educated people than we have jobs for, which means that there will always be a supply of cheap white collar staff who can be exploited for a while, before moving on to better things.

Geuze

JohnMearsheimer wrote: »

I'm based in Galway, in the city. I'm not sure if I can name the company I work for on here but they sponsor a stadium in Dublin that used to be called Lansdowne Road.

The next time I hear IBEC or some MNC complaining about high labour costs in Ireland, I will think of this 18.5k gross wage that one of their members pay.

Cody Pomeray

drkpower wrote: »

You were proposing this system earlier so I thought you might be able to provide some kind of argument or rationale for the system.

From my personal point of view, I think I've provided it.

Capitalist economic activity cannot reward all activities which are executed in the common good, and in fact may even punish their execution (e.g. childcare costs, charity donation, taking a year out of work to improve one's education, raising a family, or starting a business).

I am making a fairly unremarkable suggestion that society simply mould its economic model to balance the needs of the market economy with the wider social values which cannot be provided for in the market place, yet which may reap economic dividends in their own right.

With all due respect, I'm not typically anticipating an agreement from you, that's fine by me.

drkpower

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

From my personal point of view, I think I've provided it.

Capitalist economic activity cannot reward all activities which are executed in the common good, and in fact may even punish their execution (e.g. childcare costs, charity donation, taking a year out of work to improve one's education, raising a family, or starting a business).

I am making a fairly unremarkable suggestion that society simply mould its economic model to balance the needs of the market economy with the wider social values which cannot be provided for in the market place, yet which may reap economic dividends in their own right.

With all due respect, I'm not typically anticipating an agreement from you, that's fine by me.

I cant disagreee with what you have said above; but thats probably because its all a bit 'motherhood and apple pie' without any real specifics.

In any case, I haven't actually disagreed with you at any stage! when you stated that certain occupations should benefit from favourable tax treatment - and you gave one example of nursing - I simply looked for some elaboration on why certain occupations would reap this benefit, and others wouldn't (beyond what you have vaguely characterised as 'constructivism' and social 'inputs').

You haven't given me anything to agree or disagree with!

The Corinthian

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

I am making a fairly unremarkable suggestion that society simply mould its economic model to balance the needs of the market economy with the wider social values which cannot be provided for in the market place, yet which may reap economic dividends in their own right.

No. You're making a pretty remarkable suggestion; redistribution of earnings to the extreme point (as per your earlier posts) that it eliminates all financial incentive for people to pursue occupations that require differed reward and/or greater effort. It's a concept that was tried and ultimately failed in Comecon nations and was the single biggest reason why a wall existed during the Cold War in the first place - to stop people migrating for better opportunities. Such policies still persist in socialist countries like Cuba.

This has been repeatedly been pointed out to you, but you appear to be in denial about it as you're repeatedly ignoring this point.

jamnik

My husband and I are thinking on re-locating to Ireland. We have a lot to learn about pay scales and cost of living, where to live and so forth. Thought's? BTW, I myself born in Belfast, I moved here to the US with my parents in 1967.

ShowMeTheCash

Just going to add to this thread:

Just on the comment Cody has made to which I agree on.
I think there is an ethical debate around the type of work you do and perhaps your circumstances in terms of taxation...

We live is a social framework, taxation essentially is to fund basic needs of the state, schools, hospitals, defence etc.. etc..

I think if your job or circumstance has a close relationship to adding something back to society then I would agree that a tax break be a reward and I would not begrudge an individual for getting it. (As a lot of these people are fairly low already on the payscale)

Just to get back on point of what is a good wage:
As already stated it can be difficult to answer this, however as of late I have completely lost faith in this country more so with our joke of a government which I find embarrasing!

But just some numbers to think about:

2010 I was earning 40K a year in dublin.
I moved back to Donegal after taking a Role in N Ireland.

I now earn 45K Sterling a year.
Todays exchange rate that is (.86) around 52K euro.

Difference in taxation:

45k sterling would come in at 33K a year after decutions that is around 38K euro, I would need to earn 58K euro to get that in Dublin.

The exchange rate at the moment is not great going back to Feb of this year it was .75 which meant my 33K would have brought me in a take home of 44K euro, however for me to actually have a take home of 44K euro I would need to earn 70K in Dublin

I find this a little crazy!

I am a Senior Software Engineer 10 years experience and 33 yo.

Left Back on the Bench

JohnMearsheimer wrote: »

Reading this thread has depressed me a little. I make 18,500 euro working 35 hours a week for a multinational insurance company. After deductions I'm left with 1,381 euro a month. Out of that I pay 285 euro in reent plus bills. I'm fortunate I do not have any debt and I do not run a car. I get by month to month, I can't really save a whole lot on my earnings. I note the Morgan McKinley salary survey states the low end of the pay scale for my job is 25,000 euro. I'd love to be making in the region of 25,000 plus.

its depressing me alot!i work for a transport company,im here 9 years,i earn €477 a week before tax,€407 into my hand.there is abit of overtime but not a whole pile.I've no real qualifications unfortunately,needed money so i got a job.drive a 10 ton forklift.

djpbarry

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

I find this a little crazy!

You find what a little crazy? I’m not entirely sure what point you’re trying to make?

ShowMeTheCash

djpbarry wrote: »

You find what a little crazy? I’m not entirely sure what point you’re trying to make?

To show how badly things are screwed up...

Our entire country is over inflated, but we are stuck in a circumstance whereby nobody wants to budge therefore the only way to work around it is to up tax rates!...

In the UK the average wage of a public sector worker is around 33k euro and I think it mentioned 56K average here.

I think we will see a higher or increased level of taxation in Ireland until we realistically decrease our expetations to match the reality of the current situation in Ireland. In otherwords we cannot afford to pay the salaries perviously outlined.

Also the euro in itself I think has done us no favours!

barneystinson

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

In the UK the average wage of a public sector worker is around 33k euro and I think it mentioned 56K average here.

Sources for these figures? Are they a like for like comparison? Hard to see how they could be, since the composition of the UK public sector is certain to be different from ours...

Surely it would be a more valid exercise to compare the average net pay, since that's what people actually receive, and the relative cost of living (e.g. cost of a standard trolley of household groceries, utilities, rent etc...).

Carlowgirl

Left Back on the Bench wrote: »

its depressing me alot!i work for a transport company,im here 9 years,i earn €477 a week before tax,€407 into my hand.there is abit of overtime but not a whole pile.I've no real qualifications unfortunately,needed money so i got a job.drive a 10 ton forklift.

I was in a similar job as johnm? the original poster.. I feel bad for you.. how old are you .. would you return to college... ? I t is better than being on the dole tho on a brighter note.. and obviously working gives a better quality of life than sitting at home?

craic34

interesting details provided. salaries i am afraid are going down but rents, taxes... going increasingly up :-(

Carlowgirl

Carlowgirl wrote: »

I was in a similar job as johnm? the original poster.. I feel bad for you.. how old are you .. would you return to college... ? I t is better than being on the dole tho on a brighter note.. and obviously working gives a better quality of life than sitting at home?

Sorry that was for johnmeasheimer? but your own wage is nt too bad comparing to some other scales... I suppose it depends on where you live and what your outgoing s are... I wouldn't turn my nose up at anything over 400e these days myself personally anyway..

JohnMearsheimer

The Corinthian wrote: »

In my experience (I've never held such a position, but known plenty who do), there's very little scope for advancement; perhaps to leading a team or department of people doing such a job, but naturally there are few openings for that, regardless of what HR will tell you.

Such white collar slavery is generally staffed by:

• People when the job market is very bad and can't get anything else.
• Graduates who simply need any experience at just being employed in any office job.
  

As such, going up the ladder realistically involves doing part-time courses and/or just finding a better job, often unrelated to the low-paid one that is currently paying the bills.

Corporations can afford to staff them in countries like Ireland because we churn out more well-educated people than we have jobs for, which means that there will always be a supply of cheap white collar staff who can be exploited for a while, before moving on to better things.

Those two points mainly apply to where I work. There is very little scope for advancement. We have about 70 claims handlers, team leaders (6 in total) and a manager over the lot of us.

Everyone in the office is well educated. It's an employers market at the moment and they can pick and choose who they want. Nobody in the office particularly likes the job and most people are still actively looking for alternative work.

JohnMearsheimer

Carlowgirl wrote: »

I was in a similar job as johnm? the original poster.. I feel bad for you.. how old are you .. would you return to college... ? I t is better than being on the dole tho on a brighter note.. and obviously working gives a better quality of life than sitting at home?

I'm in my late 20s. I spent 6 years in college and have a masters degree (politics related). I would love to return to college to train as a primary school teacher. The postgrad is difficult to get into and primary teaching jobs in Ireland are very thin on the ground at the moment. I was accepted on to a primary school teaching training course last year in London but my offer was withdrawn when they discovered I got a D in Leaving Cert maths. I only got a D1 in Irish in the Leaving Cert as well so I'd have to repeat Leaving Cert maths (for the UK) and Irish if wanted to teach in Ireland.

I'm not sure what to make of my quality of life at the moment. At the moment I feel like I'm just treading water. I'm not from Galway and don't know anyone here except the people I work with. My family and friends are in Cork and my girlfriend is in Limerick. I divide my weekends between Cork and Limerick. When I finish work I just go home to my room and come out again in the morning when it's time to go to work again. I would describe my job as stressful one. I feel a bit jealous of the lads next door in Dunnes on practically the same money for none of the stress. We are worked fairly hard for our 18.5k, there's no passengers. Anyone not up to the job is out the door. The more I do the more I am expected to do. My responsibilities have increased since I started and my performance reviews have been good but that has not been reflected in my pay (or anyone else's pay). My increased responsibilities has meant that I stay late at work a night or 2 a week to keep on top of everything. No overtime or time in lieu is offered by the company. More fool me for doing it I suppose. Recently a manager visiting from the UK admitted to me privately that the work we do, in her words, was 'a big ask' for the money we are on.

Morale in the office is extremely low. There is generally an unpleasant atmosphere in the office also. The management are completely inflexible and do not listen to staff concerns. One day my team leader monitored how long I took for tea break. We are allowed 10 minutes but I apparently took 12 minutes. I was taken aside and reminded that tea break is only 10 minutes. I was dumbfounded she was taking issue with me over 2 minutes. Most days I don't take a tea break because I don't have the time. She also seemed to forget the extra unpaid time I put in after work. It's small things like this that is alienating staff and ensuring most of the staff there will be transient.

Carlowgirl

JohnMearsheimer wrote: »

I'm in my late 20s. I spent 6 years in college and have a masters degree (politics related). I would love to return to college to train as a primary school teacher. The postgrad is difficult to get into and primary teaching jobs in Ireland are very thin on the ground at the moment. I was accepted on to a primary school teaching training course last year in London but my offer was withdrawn when they discovered I got a D in Leaving Cert maths. I only got a D1 in Irish in the Leaving Cert as well so I'd have to repeat Leaving Cert maths (for the UK) and Irish if wanted to teach in Ireland.

I'm not sure what to make of my quality of life at the moment. I would describe my job as stressful one. I feel a bit jealous of the lads next door in Dunnes on practically the same money for none of the stress. We are worked fairly hard for our 18.5k, there's no passengers. Anyone not up to the job is out the door. The more I do the more I am expected to do. My responsibilities have increased since I started and my performance reviews have been good but that has not been reflected in my pay (or anyone else's pay). My increased responsibilities has meant that I stay late at work a night or 2 a week to keep on top of everything. No overtime or time in lieu is offered by the company. More fool me for doing it I suppose. Recently a manager visiting from the UK admitted to me privately that the work we do, in her words, was 'a big ask' for the money we are on.

Morale in the office is extremely low. There is generally an unpleasant atmosphere in the office also. The management are completely inflexible and do not listen to staff concerns. One day my team leader monitored how long I took for tea break. We are allowed 10 minutes but I apparently took 12 minutes. I was taken aside and reminded that tea break is only 10 minutes. I was dumbfounded she was taking issue with me over 2 minutes. Most days I don't take a tea break because I don't have the time. She also seemed to forget the extra unpaid time I put in after work. It's small things like this that is alienating staff and ensuring most of the staff there will be transient.

Completely understand I left a similar job (I was on less money than you) because the atmosphere was awful.. I have since heard they are now expected to clock in for mornings, breaks, lunch and also toilet breaks.. .. I left there because I was depressed... doing it. i got something better anyway after i left.. i would seriously consider working in Dunnes.. as opposed to somewhere like that.. such a shame you have a masters also.. and forced to do that...
could also try for the dip for primary teaching here... i wouldn't worry too much about the leaving cert results... i know for secondary its your degree result and then maybe some job interviewers might ask for you r leaving but that is rare...
i know you can up the irish by going to the gaeltacht for 3 weeks every summer .. once you complete that course you are deemed fit for irish teaching for primary.. as far as i know its not a big deal.. most people doing the primary dip wouldn't have a great amount of irish.. something to think about... .......

JohnMearsheimer

Carlowgirl wrote: »

Completely understand I left a similar job (I was on less money than you) because the atmosphere was awful.. I have since heard they are now expected to clock in for mornings, breaks, lunch and also toilet breaks.. .. I left there because I was depressed... doing it. i got something better anyway after i left.. i would seriously consider working in Dunnes.. as opposed to somewhere like that.. such a shame you have a masters also.. and forced to do that...
could also try for the dip for primary teaching here... i wouldn't worry too much about the leaving cert results... i know for secondary its your degree result and then maybe some job interviewers might ask for you r leaving but that is rare...
i know you can up the irish by going to the gaeltacht for 3 weeks every summer .. once you complete that course you are deemed fit for irish teaching for primary.. as far as i know its not a big deal.. most people doing the primary dip wouldn't have a great amount of irish.. something to think about... .......

Glad you found something better Our office is very big brother as well. I have to tell my computer I'm on a 'comfort break' when I'm going to the toilet. I'm sure they can tell how long per week I spend in the toilet.

I'm half thinking of going back to Cork in September and taking Leaving Cert Irish and maths again. At least I'd feel I was getting somewhere and going in the right direction. To be eligible to apply for the postgrad in primary teaching you need at least a C3 in Leaving Cert Irish (higher level). I only got a D1 so I'd need to put that right. There are classes in Cork for adults repeating Irish and maths. I couldn't find similar such classes in Galway. I'd have to take private grinds....no way I could afford them for a year on what I get paid. It's something to think about anyway.

Carlowgirl

JohnMearsheimer wrote: »

Glad you found something better Our office is very big brother as well. I have to tell my computer I'm on a 'comfort break' when I'm going to the toilet. I'm sure they can tell how long per week I spend in the toilet.

I'm half thinking of going back to Cork in September and taking Leaving Cert Irish and maths again. At least I'd feel I was getting somewhere and going in the right direction. To be eligible to apply for the postgrad in primary teaching you need at least a C3 in Leaving Cert Irish (higher level). I only got a D1 so I'd need to put that right. There are classes in Cork for adults repeating Irish and maths. I couldn't find similar such classes in Galway. I'd have to take private grinds....no way I could afford them for a year on what I get paid. It's something to think about anyway.

Are you over 23 ... Im really surprised if leaving cert grades apply when you have a masters.....?

JohnMearsheimer

Carlowgirl wrote: »

Are you over 23 ... Im really surprised if leaving cert grades apply when you have a masters.....?

For the post grad it still matters. You still have to meet the minimum entry requirements as everyone else, one of them being a C3 in honours Irish in the Leaving Cert. It's fair enough.

Sleepy

JohnMearsheimer wrote: »

I'm in my late 20s. I spent 6 years in college and have a masters degree (politics related).

And there's where all your problems stem from: you wasted your free degree and paid for a masters in an area that's worthless to the vast majority of employers.

While I'm a firm believer that a university education should be about far more than simply providing job-training, degrees in many of the liberal arts don't provide the student with any marketable skills at all.

Farmer Pudsey

Arts degrees in general are only useful if you are going teaching. However at present a lot of people are targeting teaching. Some have meaniful applications that can be cross transferable such as Buisness, Accountancy and maybe maths and science Arts degrees however you may need to do a few specialist courses after the degree.

Call centres type work has a high burn out rate. It is necessary to move on from it if at all possible. However you have a better chance of moving to a better job from it rather than from Dunnes unless you can start at a store middle management grade in the retail trade.

nice_guy80

teachers are needed, but not in Ireland!!
the government is spending a fortune training them, when most are going to end up leaving the country.
doesn't make sense to me.

and people paying a lot to do the likes of Hibernia teacher training, then no jobs in Ireland

same with nurses. fortunes spent training them, then they go to the UK or further afield for the jobs.

DellyBelly

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

To show how badly things are screwed up...

Our entire country is over inflated, but we are stuck in a circumstance whereby nobody wants to budge therefore the only way to work around it is to up tax rates!...

In the UK the average wage of a public sector worker is around 33k euro and I think it mentioned 56K average here.

I think we will see a higher or increased level of taxation in Ireland until we realistically decrease our expetations to match the reality of the current situation in Ireland. In otherwords we cannot afford to pay the salaries perviously outlined.

Also the euro in itself I think has done us no favours!

I actually think it's higher than 56K

Akrasia

To the people who are stuck in call centres at subsistence wages, I totally know how you feel. I was working for the claims department of an insurance company for 4 years and my income went from 18k starting, to 22k after very good Annual reviews, but no matter how good your rating is or if they give you the maximum performance related pay rise, because you're starting off from such a low base, there is no real hope that you can work your way up to a decent salary in that job.

Then I finally got a promotion internally to a different line of work, and they offered me an 'excellent' pay rise of '10%'
Which brought my salary to a whopping 24k a year in a job that has much more responsibility.
I'm now on the same team as 14 other people all of whom are earning at least 6k a year more than me, all doing the same job

Performance related pay is a percentage increase of your salary, so because I was starting at a low base, every year, if we all get the same performance rating, the difference between my salary and everyone else's is getting wider and wider.

The people who work on the claims team for the lowest wage in the whole company are treated the worst by the company. The management style is oppressive. They are chained to their phones and are expected to account for every second of their working day.

There was one instance that I remember really well. At christmas annual leave is allocated by lottery and someone who needed to travel home to the UK got days that did not suit her. Loads of people on the team offered to switch their days with her but the managers refused to allow them to swap with her for some ridiculous reason.

It's a terrible job that is stressful and unappreciated. I know there are hardly any job opportunities out there but keep looking and maybe do some courses, even the free courses on www.coursera.org and www.udacity.com would really good to put on your CV and to talk about in interviews as it shows that you're interested in advancing your skill set.

nice_guy80

DellyBelly wrote: »

I actually think it's higher than 56K

there has been recruitment embargo in the PS for 5 years now

so most of the workers are older = higher salaries.

on another point, you really need to see the MEAN salary, not average. Higher earners skew the average salary upwards

and I never, ever see comparison of the 'take home' pay of a public servant to those in other sectors

Cody Pomeray

nice_guy80 wrote: »

there has been recruitment embargo in the PS for 5 years now

so most of the workers are older = higher salaries.

Surely those 5 years of ageing workers should have been offset (should have been more than offset?) by non-payment of increments for some workers, and pay cuts.

Clearly, public sector wages are still disproportionately high relative to the rest of the economy. I'm not suggesting we make everyone similarly poor, I'm just suggesting Government arrive at a more efficient distribution.

on another point, you really need to see the MEAN salary, not average. Higher earners skew the average salary upwards

Mean is average, presumably you mean median.

and I never, ever see comparison of the 'take home' pay of a public servant to those in other sectors

There have been plenty. The contrasts are pretty staggering.

nice_guy80

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Surely those 5 years of ageing workers should have been offset (should have been more than offset?) by non-payment of increments for some workers, and pay cuts.

Clearly, public sector wages are still disproportionately high relative to the rest of the economy. I'm not suggesting we make everyone similarly poor, I'm just suggesting Government arrive at a more efficient distribution.

Mean is average, presumably you mean median.

There have been plenty. The contrasts are pretty staggering.

link?

and yes, meant median.

Jawgap

Average age in the PS is now 45/46 - it used to be a lot lower.

The retirements should have kept it low, but a lot more have left than have retired.

In my own organisation we're down about 33% in staff numbers since 2008 - that's about 37 staff. Of those 37, only 4 retired the rest left or were forced to leave.

Seanachai

"Morale in the office is extremely low. There is generally an unpleasant atmosphere in the office also. The management are completely inflexible and do not listen to staff concerns. One day my team leader monitored how long I took for tea break. We are allowed 10 minutes but I apparently took 12 minutes. I was taken aside and reminded that tea break is only 10 minutes. I was dumbfounded she was taking issue with me over 2 minutes. Most days I don't take a tea break because I don't have the time. She also seemed to forget the extra unpaid time I put in after work. It's small things like this that is alienating staff and ensuring most of the staff there will be transient."

We don't have the same time restrictions in the place I'm in but we're constantly given excuses about pay and conditions from management. From time to time HR girls come in dressed in various themes handing out twix bars and other useless s%*te. They'll pick a theme like fitness and the entire week you'll be bombarded with flyers and emails about what you should be eating ( low fat consensus diet nonsense) and exercise tips. Almost every suggestion for improvement we make is thrown back in our faces , the internet slowed earlier this year and has never recovered and the only prospect of extra money is to jump through hoops and maintain a smiley tone while your being berrated by some nutjob over the phone. I'm reading a lot about psychopathy and recognising it in the workplace , as far as I'm concerned the way in which these companies operate is psychopathic and some of the upper management could most definitely be classified as psychopaths.

http://www.amazon.com/Snakes-Suits-When-Psychopaths-Work/dp/0061147893

Sleepy

Doing some demographic analysis for a large Irish council, I recently discovered that there was a grand total of 3 employees in the organisation that were under the age of 30!

Unless the badly needed re-structure of local government in Ireland happens, this will lead to serious issues down the road as there either won't be suitable internal candidates for promotion to management or there'll be open warfare as private sector managers are recruited in and attempt to apply private sector work practices to a heavily institutionalised work-force.

ShowMeTheCash

barneystinson wrote: »

Sources for these figures? Are they a like for like comparison? Hard to see how they could be, since the composition of the UK public sector is certain to be different from ours...

Surely it would be a more valid exercise to compare the average net pay, since that's what people actually receive, and the relative cost of living (e.g. cost of a standard trolley of household groceries, utilities, rent etc...).

Google it, point I am making a few years ago even in my own sector I jump to a job in Dublin and I was making "Good money" compared to my friends that had landed jobs in Belfast or mainland UK...

But now with increased taxation the take home is now starting to level out again...

We are going through a period of adjustment, the adjustment however I think is going to be incredibly difficult for a lot of people due to bad government and farcical politicians we have running this country...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76VOnzXQMsU

This was doing rounds on fb in the last week or two, its about statoil and norway and how our politicians think it is a good idea to give it away and basically screw over the people of ireland....

Jawgap

Sleepy wrote: »

Doing some demographic analysis for a large Irish council, I recently discovered that there was a grand total of 3 employees in the organisation that were under the age of 30!

Unless the badly needed re-structure of local government in Ireland happens, this will lead to serious issues down the road as there either won't be suitable internal candidates for promotion to management or there'll be open warfare as private sector managers are recruited in and attempt to apply private sector work practices to a heavily institutionalised work-force.

TBH, I wouldn't take a promotion now - I've cut my hours back to the 37 considered so precious in HRA and I'm spending the 'extra' unpaid time I used to dedicate to my job to doing consultancy work to offset the impact of pay cut.

ShowMeTheCash

Jawgap wrote: »

TBH, I wouldn't take a promotion now - I've cut my hours back to the 37 considered so precious in HRA and I'm spending the 'extra' unpaid time I used to dedicate to my job to doing consultancy work to offset the impact of pay cut.

Be glad you can do consultancy work on the side, if I tried that I am pretty sure I would be fired or sued if it resembled in anyway what I do for my current company!

You say you cut your hours back to 37 a week? What was it before?

Jawgap

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Be glad you can do consultancy work on the side, if I tried that I am pretty sure I would be fired or sued if it resembled in anyway what I do for my current company!

You say you cut your hours back to 37 a week? What was it before?

Strictly speaking my working week was 35 hours per week, but given the salary I was on I considered myself paid to do a job, rather than paid to work X hours. We charge regulatory fees based on time so we've a fairly sophisticated case management system that monitors time - my typical working week up to the end of Q2 2013 was 43 to 45 hours per week, including business related travel.

On the other point, before we had our professional indemnity insurance paid for, then in 2011/12 we were told we'd have to pay it ourselves - the excuse was that other practitioners do, except the comparison was with freelancers and contractors, not employees - I figured if I've to pay for my own ticket I'm free to take on extra work.

My boss knows what I'm doing and I've agreed the type of work I can do to avoid a conflict of interest arising

ShowMeTheCash

Jawgap wrote: »

Strictly speaking my working week was 35 hours per week, but given the salary I was on I considered myself paid to do a job, rather than paid to work X hours. We charge regulatory fees based on time so we've a fairly sophisticated case management system that monitors time - my typical working week up to the end of Q2 2013 was 43 to 45 hours per week, including business related travel.

On the other point, before we had our professional indemnity insurance paid for, then in 2011/12 we were told we'd have to pay it ourselves - the excuse was that other practitioners do, except the comparison was with freelancers and contractors, not employees - I figured if I've to pay for my own ticket I'm free to take on extra work.

My boss knows what I'm doing and I've agreed the type of work I can do to avoid a conflict of interest arising

I worked as a contractor for the central bank back in 2009/2010 full time staff had a working day of 6.5 hours, as a contractor I was contracted to a 7.5 which was 8 hours as I was not paid for lunch.

If I am being honest the majority of public sector workers I worked with had it pretty handy in terms of time spent in the office and if I am being brutally honest under a lot less pressure on project based work...

As a contractor I was paid a ridiculous amount of cash, but those contracts got slashed in 2010 (rightly so)...

Again this is purely on my own experience...

barneystinson

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Google it, point I am making a few years ago even in my own sector I jump to a job in Dublin and I was making "Good money" compared to my friends that had landed jobs in Belfast or mainland UK...

No, you Google it and post your source - otherwise you're just doing a Drumm on it...

ShowMeTheCash

This is the second link I found indicated that the average pubic sector worker in the Uk earns 28,800 quid todays exchange rate that is 33,500

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2065569/Average-public-sector-salary-3-800-year-time-average-private-sector.html



http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/publicsector-staff-paid-285-on-average-more-a-week-than-private-sector-29303891.html

Says:

Average weekly earnings in the private sector in the first three months of the year was €628.26 and €913.25 in the public sector.

47500 a year maybe not 56K as some perviosuly mentioned but still a significant difference:

UK 33500
IRE 47500

And thats not discounting

The CSO said that weekly earnings in the private sector increased marginally in the year, and fell in the public sector.

Despite this, public sector workers earned about €285 on average more per week than private sector employees in the first three months of the year.

Jawgap

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

I worked as a contractor for the central bank back in 2009/2010 full time staff had a working day of 6.5 hours, as a contractor I was contracted to a 7.5 which was 8 hours as I was not paid for lunch.

If I am being honest the majority of public sector workers I worked with had it pretty handy in terms of time spent in the office and if I am being brutally honest under a lot less pressure on project based work...

As a contractor I was paid a ridiculous amount of cash, but those contracts got slashed in 2010 (rightly so)...

Again this is purely on my own experience...

There was a certain mania to do with consultants in the PS up until 2009. Anything complicated, bring in the consultants. Change management? bring in the consultants. Anything with 'project' in the title, bring in the consultants. I'm not saying there weren't projects or jobs where you didn't need the expertise a consultancy team can bring, but political and senior management rarely utilised in-house expertise for anything non-routine.

When I moved into the PS in 2004 having spent a couple of years working as a contractor / consultant I was surprised at just how much use was made of them - the irony, in my experience anyway, was that if a staff member made a suggestion by email it rarely got entertained, but as soon as the guy in the suit from Louis Copeland spun it out to 2000 words and put it in a glossy graphics heavy document it was brilliance personified.

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

This is the second link I found indicated that the average pubic sector worker in the Uk earns 28,800 quid todays exchange rate that is 33,500

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2065569/Average-public-sector-salary-3-800-year-time-average-private-sector.html



http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/publicsector-staff-paid-285-on-average-more-a-week-than-private-sector-29303891.html

Says:

Average weekly earnings in the private sector in the first three months of the year was €628.26 and €913.25 in the public sector.

47500 a year maybe not 56K as some perviosuly mentioned but still a significant difference:

UK 33500
IRE 47500

But the UK has higher disposable incomes - I'll happily take a pay cut if it means more money in my pocket, better services etc. There's a lot of services you get in the UK for free (at the point of delivery) than you have to pay for in Ireland.

Prof. Armitage Shanks

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

This is the second link I found indicated that the average pubic sector worker in the Uk earns 28,800 quid todays exchange rate that is 33,500

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2065569/Average-public-sector-salary-3-800-year-time-average-private-sector.html



http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/publicsector-staff-paid-285-on-average-more-a-week-than-private-sector-29303891.html

Says:

Average weekly earnings in the private sector in the first three months of the year was €628.26 and €913.25 in the public sector.

47500 a year maybe not 56K as some perviosuly mentioned but still a significant difference:

UK 33500
IRE 47500

And thats not discounting

The CSO said that weekly earnings in the private sector increased marginally in the year, and fell in the public sector.

Despite this, public sector workers earned about €285 on average more per week than private sector employees in the first three months of the year.

Perhaps a comparison of net take home pay would be more accurate. The figures you listed above do not include differences in tax bands, tax free allowances or the public sector pension levy that all public sector works in this state are obliged to pay.

ShowMeTheCash

Jawgap wrote: »

There was a certain mania to do with consultants in the PS up until 2009. Anything complicated, bring in the consultants. Change management? bring in the consultants. Anything with 'project' in the title, bring in the consultants. I'm not saying there weren't projects or jobs where you didn't need the expertise a consultancy team can bring, but political and senior management rarely utilised in-house expertise for anything non-routine.

When I moved into the PS in 2004 having spent a couple of years working as a contractor / consultant I was surprised at just how much use was made of them - the irony, in my experience anyway, was that if a staff member made a suggestion by email it rarely got entertained, but as soon as the guy in the suit from Louis Copeland spun it out to 2000 words and put it in a glossy graphics heavy document it was brilliance personified.

.

Totally agree, I was brought in as an "expert" but the work I was actually doing was in no way specialised, although at the time I was not complaining but I also had the thought "if this was my business I would not be paying "me" this kind of money to do this kind of job!"

Jawgap wrote: »

But the UK has higher disposable incomes - I'll happily take a pay cut if it means more money in my pocket, better services etc. There's a lot of services you get in the UK for free (at the point of delivery) than you have to pay for in Ireland.

I think this makes my point, my gripe is really how things in this country seem to get away from us...

As someone already stated, Ireland is not too bad if you have a decent job and are single, if married with kids it begins to become a very different place..

ShowMeTheCash

Prof. Armitage Shanks wrote: »

Perhaps a comparison of net take home pay would be more accurate. The figures you listed above do not include differences in tax bands, tax free allowances or the public sector pension levy that all public sector works in this state are obliged to pay.

I already know this, you will see from my previous post that I had suggested the reason why taxation is now so high is due to over inflated salaries....

Essentially lower salaries or raise taxes.

I mentioned earlier that I now see a shift, previosuly I was better off working in Dublin but I moved back to Donegal and now work in N Ireland.

For example 45K sterling is around 53K euro.
My take home is around 33K sterling or 38K euro, but to take 38K home here in Ireland I would actually have to earn 58K euro a year.

It is a double hit, as the exchange rate is .86 if it moved from example to .75 (which it could) my 45K sterling or 33K take home would earn me a 44k euro net, to have the same take home here in ireland I would need to be getting paid 70K a year...

djpbarry

Jawgap wrote: »

But the UK has higher disposable incomes

Those rankings include social benefits, suggesting that it’s an analysis of the total population, not just the employed. I’m guessing that if the unemployed were excluded, Ireland would fare somewhat better.

Brussels Sprout

Sleepy wrote: »

or there'll be open warfare as private sector managers are recruited in and attempt to apply private sector work practices to a heavily institutionalised work-force.

..or those same managers realise that there's not a large incentive to push through those changes and instead, sit back, accept the status quo and collect their increments every year.