Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Rhoticity vs non-Rhoticity (RP and Queens) - correct English?

  • 18-07-2013 9:58am
    #1
    Matt Simis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,718 ✭✭✭


    I was arguing about what a so-called "British" accent is recently and found, to my surprise, non-Rhoticity is the defining feature of "upper class" British (as in English English) accents and the pillar of RP and Queens while also being the standard in "lower class" accents.

    I just cannot get my head around the concept that this is "correct", standardised and is what is now considered upper class English! Its (RP) so... dumbed down:

    Non-Rhotic - pass the "butta"
    Whine-wine merger - whole vs hole


    What grates even more though is the fact that while Ireland (and Scotland and the US) maintained the original rhoticity, the apparently spreading Dublin D4 accent doesnt, in its attempts to bastardise and transport modern Southern English accents. This is how it rolled out in England too.


    Are we doomed to be unable to differentiate a cad from a card and a which from a witch?


Comments

  • #2
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,529 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Whole v hole is not a proper example of disappearing aspiration.

    Many Irish accents are non-rhotic but none of them could be described as upper-class - much of north/central Dublin, Louth, the border counties, West Cork/Kerry all have accents where the word-final R is omitted and some don't even rhotacise at the beginnings of words. The 'D4' accent on the other hand is still very much rhotic.


  • #3
    Matt Simis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,718 ✭✭✭Matt Simis


    Yes, perhaps I shouldnt consider D4 as encompassing over the region as I did.

    I also found this paper which compares Dartspeak to Estuary English:
    http://www.uni-due.de/IERC/DartSpeak_EstuaryEnglish_(Hickey).pdf


    Some similarities but also some major differences.


  • #4
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,529 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Matt Simis wrote: »
    Yes, perhaps I shouldnt consider D4 as encompassing over the region as I did.

    I also found this paper which compares Dartspeak to Estuary English:
    http://www.uni-due.de/IERC/DartSpeak_EstuaryEnglish_(Hickey).pdf


    Some similarities but also some major differences.

    That's a terrible paper. There's not a single coherent point in it to validate the comparison.


  • #5
    Matt Simis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,718 ✭✭✭Matt Simis


    pickarooney wrote: »
    That's a terrible paper. There's not a single coherent point in it to validate the comparison.

    Point me to a better one, Im interesting in learning more about accents/dialects at the moment!


Advertisement