Detroit, Bankrupt. Any sympathy ?

JohnMc1

IvySlayer wrote: »

Obama so proudly refused to let Detroit go bankrupt in 2012 and 89 billion was spent saving it. The knock on effect of Detroit not able to pay its 15 billion in debt will hurt.

Republicans are going to have a field day.

Ofcourse they will. Detroit has been under Democrat hold for over 50 years. All they have to do show pictures of Detroit's burned out buildings with a message that say "Do you want your city to look like this?" Detroit is the result of decades of Incompetence by elected officials and Union greed.

And to the dope that says the GOP steps on Black people? How is trying to offer handups [aka a job] instead of hand-outs [welfare] stepping on people? Both parties only care about you when they want your vote.

Killer Wench

JohnMc1 wrote: »

And to the dope that says the GOP steps on Black people? How is trying to offer handups [aka a job] instead of hand-outs [welfare] stepping on people? Both parties only care about you when they want your vote.

Because the GOP relies on systematic and structural racism to keep Black people from stepping up. This is why the GOP is dying as a political party. And, I mean that literally.

MOC88

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Clinton pushed the banks to give poor people mortgages they weren't giving out at the time. There was a public pressure to get this to happen. This was the seed of the economic crash

Similar happened here as people complained the banks weren't lending enough so the banks met this demand with higher loan to value rates. What lots of people like to forget is the public were putting pressure on the banks to give larger longer term mortgages. The banks here actually did what the public demanded.

People wanted the banks the lend 10s of billions to less than 500 people? News to me

Strange it isn't discussed how that small group had borrowed more than the rest of the population. Probably because Fergus O Dowd decided in his infinite wisdom to hire the same people to manage the properties for NAMA, that they couldn't manage in the first place, for wages over 100k a year each.

Aidric

Maybe a live aid type event could be held, with only industrial techno on the set list. Jeff Mills to headline.

Rightwing

Push Pop wrote: »

Your above statement shows an acute lack of knowledge of macro economics. I suggest googling deficit spending, Milton Keynes, reserve asset currency and debt affordability of governments. It's also roughly 2 trillion to china.
The US will be fine, it just needs to bridge the gap between rich and poor.

there's more to marco economics than simply googling I'm afraid :rolleyes:

JohnMc1

Killer Wench wrote: »

Because the GOP relies on systematic and structural racism to keep Black people from stepping up. This is why the GOP is dying as a political party. And, I mean that literally.

LOL. Someone doesn't know their History. I can guess where you got that rubbish from.

Push Pop

Killer Wench wrote: »

Because the GOP relies on systematic and structural racism to keep Black people from stepping up. This is why the GOP is dying as a political party. And, I mean that literally.

Can you elaborate further on what you mean by systematic and structural racism in the US? Are you by any chance African American?

JohnMc1

Push Pop wrote: »

Can you elaborate further on what you mean by systematic and structural racism in the US? Are you by any chance African American?

I doubt s/he can.

Killer Wench

JohnMc1 wrote: »

LOL. Someone doesn't know their History. I can guess where you got that rubbish from.

Oh, I don't know my history? Let me guess, you're going to say that the GOP was the party of Lincoln and was the great party behind the Civil Rights Movement? Yeah, that party died after the great Reagan was elected.

Tell me more, sir, tell me more.

Killer Wench

Push Pop wrote: »

Can you elaborate further on what you mean by systematic and structural racism in the US? Are you by any chance African American?

It's been my experience that Europeans refer to Black folk as African American more than Black folk do.

I'm Black (and Native), yes.


System = Centuries of state sanctioned slavery, followed by 100 years of Jim Crow laws

Structure = Generation after generation of people receiving benefit at the cost of oppressing minority groups

Chucken

Killer Wench wrote: »

It's been my experience that Europeans refer to Black folk as African American more than Black folk do.

We just cant get it right can we?

JohnMc1

Killer Wench wrote: »

Oh, I don't know my history? Let me guess, you're going to say that the GOP was the party of Lincoln and was the great party behind the Civil Rights Movement? Yeah, that party died after the great Reagan was elected.

Tell me more, sir, tell me more.

And what have the Dems done for Black? Fought to keep slavery, Founded the KKK, planted Abortion Clinics in cities with the highest Black population. Introduced the modern slavery known as Welfare.

Keep telling yourself that the Dems really care about you. History says otherwise.

Killer Wench

JohnMc1 wrote: »

And what have the Dems done for Black? Fought to keep slavery, Founded the KKK, planted Abortion Clinics in cities with the highest Black population. Introduced the modern slavery known as Welfare.

Keep telling yourself that the Dems really care about you. History says otherwise.

Where did I write that the Dems were better for Black folk than the GOP? Do not assume that you know me. The Democratic Party wins by default because the GOP has failed to adapt and evolve.

Even during its period of advocating for Blacks, the GOP's stance was based upon a patronizing message. Abe Lincoln didn't believe that Blacks were equal to Whites. He thought that we were intellectually, spiritually, and culturally inferior to Whites. In fact, he damn near considered us not to be human. He advocated that freed Blacks be returned to Africa because he did not think they were capable of becoming civilized.

Thus, we return to the message of systematic and structural racism.

Killer Wench

Chucken wrote: »

We just cant get it right can we?

When I was a studying in Ireland, we were having a discussion about Black folk in the US. One of my classmates, a German student, referred to me as a black person. Later on, the professor, who was also German, apologized on behalf of his countryman. He thought that it was rude for a fellow German to point out the fact that I was black. My response: but I am Black.

Another time, I was sitting at lunch with my Irish co-workers. We were talking about music and they wanted to talk about an R&B artist that was going to be performing at a festival. I can't remember the exact context of how the conversation began, but I remember them struggling not to say black because they did not want to offend me. I told them that it was fine to call me black. I am black.

Maybe black Europeans feel differently about the word, but in the US, Black is an ethnic group and black is a racial group. It's a common term that we mutually understand to mean people of a certain skin tone. It is what it is.

retalivity

I live less than 2 hours from detroit and have been there a few times.
it is truly shocking what an absolute kip parts of it is. It reminds me of the walking dead, but worse. vast blocks of abandoned crumbling houses along side massive plots of overgrown grass where houses once stood that were knocked down and no money or effort there to build new ones.

google maps and streetview show how everywhere other than downtown and the distant suburbs are falling apart

MOC88

Killer Wench wrote: »

When I was a studying in Ireland, we were having a discussion about Black folk in the US. One of my classmates, a German student, referred to me as a black person. Later on, the professor, who was also German, apologized on behalf of his countryman. He thought that it was rude for a fellow German to point out the fact that I was black. My response: but I am Black.

Another time, I was sitting at lunch with my Irish co-workers. We were talking about music and they wanted to talk about an R&B artist that was going to be performing at a festival. I can't remember the exact context of how the conversation began, but I remember them struggling not to say black because they did not want to offend me. I told them that it was fine to call me black. I am black.

Maybe black Europeans feel differently about the word, but in the US, Black is an ethnic group and black is a racial group. It's a common term that we mutually understand to mean people of a certain skin tone. It is what it is.

It'd be so much more interesting if you thought of yourself as a Redguard http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Redguard_(Skyrim).

Joking aside as exposure increases any trepidation will dissapear naturally and you can definitely see it with the younger generations in Ireland. The funniest thing I've seen was when the Black Man in Cork changed the name to an Fear Dubh and then back to the Black Man

JohnMc1

Killer Wench wrote: »

Where did I write that the Dems were better for Black folk than the GOP? Do not assume that you know me. The Democratic Party wins by default because the GOP has failed to adapt and evolve.

Even during its period of advocating for Blacks, the GOP's stance was based upon a patronizing message.

So giving you tons of Welfare, telling you nothing is ever your fault and you're not to blame for your own actions isn't patronizing? The Dems are telling you you're not good enough or smart enough to make it on your own or not sensible to take responsibility for your own actions. They tell you you NEED Welfare to stay afloat and you lap it up.

Thus, we return to the message of systematic and structural racism.

Yep. That's the Democrats for you.

MOC88

JohnMc1 wrote: »

So giving you tons of Welfare, telling you nothing is ever your fault and you're not to blame for your own actions isn't patronizing? The Dems are telling you you're not good enough or smart enough to make it on your own or not sensible to take responsibility for your own actions. They tell you you NEED Welfare to stay afloat and you lap it up.



Yep. That's the Democrats for you.

WTF would you prefer people to starve to death? People can take responsibility for their own lives if they want to and no amount of money thrown in someones face is going to change that. The Democrats who nominated and a black man for president twice are telling black people they're not smart enough?

Killer Wench

JohnMc1 wrote: »

So giving you tons of Welfare, telling you nothing is ever your fault and you're not to blame for your own actions isn't patronizing? The Dems are telling you you're not good enough or smart enough to make it on your own or not sensible to take responsibility for your own actions. They tell you you NEED Welfare to stay afloat and you lap it up.



Yep. That's the Democrats for you.

Casual Reader: Please note this poster's continued attempt to frame this discussion in a Dem v. GOP battle.

Again, this isn't about which party is better for Black folk. My comment is about the GOP's inability to evolve with the changing demographics of the US. Younger generations are even more progressive and liberal than previous youngsters. The GOP is predominately made up of older White people and they have chosen to limited their message to that demographic because they make a huge voting block. That may be how it is right now, but it won't be like that in five or ten years. They are playing the short game when they should be playing a long one.

Killer Wench

Oh, and JohnMC, my father is a retired military officer. My family were members of the Republican Party up until the mid 1990s. Stop trying to typecast me because I happen to be Black.

JohnMc1

MOC88 wrote: »

WTF would you prefer people to starve to death? People can take responsibility for their own lives if they want to and no amount of money thrown in someones face is going to change that. The Democrats who nominated and a black man for president twice are telling black people they're not smart enough?

How about get a job. Or get training for a job. Welfare should not be a lifetime thing.It was always meant to be a temporary measure. This is why states are the way they are as well.

And what has Obama done that has been so great for the Black Community?

JohnMc1

Killer Wench wrote: »

Casual Reader: Please not this poster's continued attempt to frame this discussion in a Dem v. GOP battle.

Again, this isn't about which party is better for Black folk. My comment is about the GOP's inability to evolve with the changing demographics of the US. Younger generations are even more progressive and liberal than previous youngsters. The GOP is predominately made up of older White people and they have chosen to limited their message to that demographic because they make a huge voting block. That may be how it is right now, but it won't be like that in five or ten years. They are playing the short game when they should be playing a long one.

Casual reader: This poster started the Dem vs GOP battle. Couldn't defend her stance and is now looking to change the issue.

JohnMc1

Killer Wench wrote: »

Oh, and JohnMC, my father is a retired military officer. My family were members of the Republican Party up until the mid 1990s. Stop trying to typecast me because I happen to be Black.

The only one typecasting you is you. You Father has my respect for his service. You do not because you wanted to start a flamewar and got shot down and are playing the victim [Waaahh. He's picking on me because I'm Black.] Nobody knew you were Black until YOU brought it up.

crockholm

If John Hopkins pulled out of Baltimore,would it be the next major city to declare bankrupcy (stupid and hypothetical,but wondering what other cities are threatened ?)

JohnMc1

crockholm wrote: »

If John Hopkins pulled out of Baltimore,would it be the next major city to declare bankrupcy (stupid and hypothetical,but wondering what other cities are threatened ?)

Maryland is a mixed bag. It might not help but I don't think it will lead to bankruptcy.

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/07/daybreak-daily-mcdonnell-attorney-confirms-meetings-with-star-91580.html

MOC88

JohnMc1 wrote: »

How about get a job. Or get training for a job. Welfare should not be a lifetime thing.It was always meant to be a temporary measure. This is why states are the way they are as well.

And what has Obama done that has been so great for the Black Community?

And if they can't get a job or need welfare while they're training what do they do?
What if the parent is a ####in ###t and doesn't do anything should the child suffer. I've known plenty of people from bad homes in Ireland to make something of themselves only because there was enough money for the parents to feed them. States are they way they are because of poor management, incompetence and corruption - the same problem many private businesses have.

I didn't say he did anything. You said the Deocratic party was patronizing and tried to send continuous subliminal messages to black people in the U.S that they were incapable of being responsible for themselves yet their primary nomination for President was a black man (twice) - I'm trying to show you how weak your argument is.

Killer Wench

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Casual reader: This poster started the Dem vs GOP battle. Couldn't defend her stance and is now looking to change the issue.

“Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”


― Mark Twain


With that, I'm on to the next thread. Laters!

JohnMc1

This video is good at detailing Detroit's fall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hhJ_49leBw

JohnMc1

Killer Wench wrote: »

“Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”


― Mark Twain


With that, I'm on to the next thread. Laters!

Yes. You looked like a fool.

Amerika

crockholm wrote: »

If John Hopkins pulled out of Baltimore,would it be the next major city to declare bankrupcy (stupid and hypothetical,but wondering what other cities are threatened ?)

My state’s capital, Harrisburg, PA filed for bankruptcy a year and a half ago because of massive debt. I think it will be a growing urban trend as cities collapse under mismanagement, primarily due to debt associated with providing unsustainable benefits and pensions promised to public employees.

crockholm

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Maryland is a mixed bag. It might not help but I don't think it will lead to bankruptcy.

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/07/daybreak-daily-mcdonnell-attorney-confirms-meetings-with-star-91580.html[/QUOTE]

I was just wondering where the next problem city would be, and Baltimore came to mind as it is a city with a rapidly decling population,white flight,still a high crime/murder rate (though declining also) and the recently attractive Washington DC 1 hour down the road,just thought that the prospects for the city might not be so rosy.:(

Amirani

Ray Palmer wrote: »

That is some claim. Economically isn't true, scientific isn't true either. Military OK. Their hold on media makes people think they are more than they are.

USA is not the land of the free or a democracy BTW. False advertisement

Care to suggest a stronger economic or scientific power?

Nobody on the thread claimed they were the home of democracy.

MOC88

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Yes. You looked like a fool.

For someone who thinks welfare is such a disgrace why are you applying for grants and the B.E.A??? Surely this is a form of welfare, now you'll say its temporary and its different but no its not it is still welfare. I'm back in college and you know how much I'm getting, sweet #### all. Continue your pontificating I'm sure nobody is reading your posts except to laugh at them.

crockholm

Amerika wrote: »

My state’s capital, Harrisburg, PA filed for bankruptcy a year and a half ago because of massive debt. I think it will be a growing urban trend as cities collapse under mismanagement, primarily due to debt associated with providing unsustainable benefits and pensions promised to public employees.

May not have helped that your state's 3 top commodoties were steel,coal and the Amish;)

MOC88

NiallSparky wrote: »

Care to suggest a stronger economic or scientific power?

Nobody on the thread claimed they were the home of democracy.

Forget economic or scientific power their navy is so overpowered its not even funny. They could probably blow every other navy combined out of the water without too much trouble. They've 11 carriers alone and this is where their technology lead really helps them. China are only building their first, and thats only an unfinished hack job bought from the Russians.

AllthingsCP

stefan idiot jones wrote: »

Detroit has declared itself bankrupt.

I have a great deal of sympathy for the citizens and the American people, but not a lot for the Country itself as they had a huge part in starting the global recession in the first place.

What do you think ? Will you shed a tear for the mighty and powerful warmongering Nation ?

Get on the housing market selling over their for ONE dollar!! In Detroit that is.

AllthingsCP

MOC88 wrote: »

Forget economic or scientific power their navy is so overpowered its not even funny. They could probably blow every other navy combined out of the water without too much trouble. They've 11 carriers alone and this is where their technology lead really helps them. China are only building their first, and thats only an unfinished hack job bought from the Russians.

All the same in War games against Iran's navy the Americans lost!!

clairefontaine

What does any of this have to do with Detroit?

MOC88

AllthingsCP wrote: »

All the same in War games against Iran's navy the Americans lost!!

Why do you think the only option was not to play the game

MOC88

clairefontaine wrote: »

What does any of this have to do with Detroit?

It's in AH

JohnMc1

crockholm wrote: »

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Maryland is a mixed bag. It might not help but I don't think it will lead to bankruptcy.

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/07/daybreak-daily-mcdonnell-attorney-confirms-meetings-with-star-91580.html[/QUOTE]

I was just wondering where the next problem city would be, and Baltimore came to mind as it is a city with a rapidly decling population,white flight,still a high crime/murder rate (though declining also) and the recently attractive Washington DC 1 hour down the road,just thought that the prospects for the city might not be so rosy.:(

CA seems to be the next one.

http://www.governing.com/gov-data/municipal-cities-counties-bankruptcies-and-defaults.html

Amerika

crockholm wrote: »

May not have helped that your state's 3 top commodoties were steel,coal and the Amish;)

LOL... Steel and coal were long gone before Harrisburg's problems emerged, and now the Amish (well the ex-Amish anyway) have their own hit TV show. But the Amish are amazing (except when you get behind one of their buggies on the road), and I buy products made by them. Sometimes I will pull off the side of the road just to watch a single farmer work a 6 horse team ploughing the fields.

JohnMc1

MOC88 wrote: »

For someone who thinks welfare is such a disgrace why are you applying for grants and the B.E.A??? Surely this is a form of welfare, now you'll say its temporary and its different but no its not it is still welfare. I'm back in college and you know how much I'm getting, sweet #### all. Continue your pontificating I'm sure nobody is reading your posts except to laugh at them.

Just like I'm laughing at your posts. You're looking like a fool with every post. I've paid my taxes. If I'm eligible great and as a Mature Student I need to be on BtE. Having to look at my post history shows you are desperate.

clairefontaine

Amerika wrote: »

LOL... Steel and coal were long gone before Harrisburg's problems emerged, and now the Amish (well the ex-Amish anyway) have their own hit TV show. But the Amish are amazing (except when you get behind one of their buggies on the road), and I buy products made by them. Sometimes I will pull off the side of the road just to watch a single farmer work a 6 horse team ploughing the fields.

I love PA. one of my favourite states.

Amerika

clairefontaine wrote: »

I love PA. one of my favourite states.

But it's got the worse roads in the US. "Land of 10,000 potholes"

AllthingsCP

MOC88 wrote: »

Why do you think the only option was not to play the game

Lol

MOC88

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Just like I'm laughing at your posts. You're looking like a fool with every post. I've paid my taxes. If I'm eligible great and as a Mature Student I need to be on BtE. Having to look at my post history shows you are desperate.

Nah its a habit I picked up to be able to dismiss massive hypocrites. I'm a mature student, I don't need to be on BTE - its tough at tiems but its my decision and I'll stand by it. Oh please tell us how much tax you paid, I'm sure it'll cover - BTE- say 200e a week? so that'd be roughly 10,400 every year. You also get the grant I believe and have fees paid so full fees would be about 6,0000 without the contribution each year. Then you have to be out of work 9 months or fired from your job to get the bea. As you iddn't get it first time we'll say 9 months by 188, so 7332. Lets say you spend 3 years in college

BEA - 31,200
Fees fully paid for - 18,000
9 months of dole - 7,300
Then there was processing charges about

so that would be tax of about 56,500 at a conservative estimate.

4 years would be 72,900

You may have paid that amount of tax it's reasonable enough especially with a trade but...


Then we get on to the beauties of primary and secondary education - child benefit payments your family would have collected. Road use, hospital use, policing(relatively safe out there)

I'd seriously doubt you've paid for all the services you've received in your life, frankly if you had I'd assume you'd be paying your own way right now because it would have taken a massive income. Yet you'll criticize people who grow up in the worst of circumstances and think its alright for them to suffer because their parents are scum. Everyone deserves a fair shot despite what you think.

I actually applaud your common sense in making the most of your opportunities but maybe you should realise that welfare isn't about propagating layabouts but to ensure that people don't have to suffer because of a few bad choices especially because of other people's decisions.

crockholm

Amerika wrote: »

But it's got the worse roads in the US. "Land of 10,000 potholes"

And a lawsuit from Wisconsin can't be far off. Damn Cheeseheads.

UCDVet

Isn't Ireland bankrupt too? I'm not into economics - but that is what I keep hearing.

I'd bet large sums of money the tax burden of a Detroit citizen is significantly less than what we're paying to keep our elite in the lifestyle they've grown accustom to.

JohnMc1

MOC88 wrote: »

Nah its a habit I picked up to be able to dismiss massive hypocrites. I'm a mature student, I don't need to be on BTE - its tough at tiems but its my decision and I'll stand by it. Oh please tell us how much tax you paid, I'm sure it'll cover - BTE- say 200e a week? so that'd be roughly 10,400 every year. You also get the grant I believe and have fees paid so full fees would be about 6,0000 without the contribution each year. Then you have to be out of work 9 months or fired from your job to get the bea. As you iddn't get it first time we'll say 9 months by 188, so 7332. Lets say you spend 3 years in college

BEA - 31,200
Fees fully paid for - 18,000
9 months of dole - 7,300
Then there was processing charges about

so that would be tax of about 56,500 at a conservative estimate.

4 years would be 72,900

You may have paid that amount of tax it's reasonable enough especially with a trade but...


Then we get on to the beauties of primary and secondary education - child benefit payments your family would have collected. Road use, hospital use, policing(relatively safe out there)

I'd seriously doubt you've paid for all the services you've received in your life, frankly if you had I'd assume you'd be paying your own way right now because it would have taken a massive income. Yet you'll criticize people who grow up in the worst of circumstances and think its alright for them to suffer because their parents are scum. Everyone deserves a fair shot despite what you think.

I actually applaud your common sense in making the most of your opportunities but maybe you should realise that welfare isn't about propagating layabouts but to ensure that people don't have to suffer because of a few bad choices especially because of other people's decisions.

You're an idiot. I've been working since I was 16. I don't criticize people who need it. I criticize the ones that can work but don't because they feel entitled to something. Welfare should not be permanent. Anybody with a brain can figure that out.