Waterford Castle Liquidation

tombliboo83

Just heard on today fm that the castle is to be put into liquidation with a reciever to be appointed..bad news indeed. Can't find a link..

decies

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/waterford-castle-can-continue-to-trade-after-provisional-liquidator-appointed-29433589.html

joni1

Was surprised to read there are 80 people employed there, wouldn't have thought it

tombliboo83

It will be a huge psychological blow to Waterford should the castle be finished

xFROSTY Gx

joni1 wrote: »

Was surprised to read there are 80 people employed there, wouldn't have thought it

Have to take into consideration all the different areas. Clubhouse staff, hotel staff, greenkeepers, ferrymen, managers/back of house and housekeeping for the lodges!

It was a long time coming to be honest but I feel it wont be let fail as its location (an island) is so different compared to any other hotel/resort in the same financial position.

Hopefully a buyer will be found soon enough

Motivator

Out of 47 houses built on the island oy 2 were sold, there's about 30 million owed on the houses alone. Crazy stuff altogether, it won't close though as the property won't be of any use if it does close. Another huge blow to the city all the same.

ziedth

I would be amazed if a buyer didn't come in fairly sharpish. It's a serious bit of land and a rework of the pricing and I'm sure it could work out pretty we'll.

I went for the 1 night B&B with a dinner for a family do a few months ago and while I enjoyed the night and the food was nice it wasn't worth anywhere near the money we paid on the night which was probably the bones of €500 between everything(for two).

Addictedtogolf

Motivator wrote: »

Out of 47 houses built on the island oy 2 were sold, there's about 30 million owed on the houses alone. Crazy stuff altogether, it won't close though as the property won't be of any use if it does close. Another huge blow to the city all the same.

Do you mind me asking how you know that only 2 of the houses were sold?

Motivator

Addictedtogolf wrote: »

Do you mind me asking how you know that only 2 of the houses were sold?

I'm a member of Waterford Castle.

gscully

I heard Marks & Spencer are going in there...

wellboytoo

gscully wrote: »

I heard Marks & Spencer are going in there...

Cracker.

Finnbar01

wellboytoo wrote: »

Cracker.

Don't be such a racist!

7upfree

gscully wrote: »

I heard Marks & Spencer are going in there...

Kinda sad to see that jokes can be cracked about 80 people losing their jobs.

JPA

7upfree wrote: »

Kinda sad to see that jokes can be cracked about 80 people losing their jobs.

It's not closing down.

ToxicPaddy

I've heard from a few people, but this is just hearsay, that the hotel and golf club are actually doing ok in the current economy, covering their cost etc but the houses were what dragged eveything down. They never sold, were over priced to start with and the money they borrowed was staggering when you see what the end result was.

Suppose it just takes one bad decision to bring the whole lot down. Such a shame because its a fantastic venue and decent golf course. If someone who has a few quid behind them came in and built it up again from scratch, they would do well as its always been popular with weddings and the golf club always had a decent membership.

thomasm

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

I've heard from a few people, but this is just hearsay, that the hotel and golf club are actually doing ok in the current economy, covering their cost etc but the houses were what dragged eveything down. They never sold, were over priced to start with and the money they borrowed was staggering when you see what the end result was.

Suppose it just takes one bad decision to bring the whole lot down. Such a shame because its a fantastic venue and decent golf course. If someone who has a few quid behind them came in and built it up again from scratch, they would do well as its always been popular with weddings and the golf club always had a decent membership.

Thats my understanding too. Course and hotel doing well but owner keeps stripping out profits to pay other debts.

Finnbar01

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

I've heard from a few people, but this is just hearsay, that the hotel and golf club are actually doing ok in the current economy, covering their cost etc but the houses were what dragged eveything down. They never sold, were over priced to start with and the money they borrowed was staggering when you see what the end result was.

Suppose it just takes one bad decision to bring the whole lot down. Such a shame because its a fantastic venue and decent golf course. If someone who has a few quid behind them came in and built it up again from scratch, they would do well as its always been popular with weddings and the golf club always had a decent membership.

When did they start building the houses down there?

blue note

Sad to see this. It was my favourite course in the county until Tramore made their improvements.

I just hope now though that they don't start behaving like a typical NAMA course and start undercutting the others. Other courses need to price themselves to make money. NAMA courses just need to lose less money operating then they would not operating to justify keeping them open.

If it closed it could help other clubs in the area with others picking up their members and green fees. And Waterford might have too many golf clubs already to be fair.

All that said, I'd hate to see 80 people lose their jobs and I'd hate to see that course close.

gscully

7upfree wrote: »

Kinda sad to see that jokes can be cracked about 80 people losing their jobs.

Bore off! Where did I joke about 80 people losing their jobs? It's sadder that you choose to invent scandal in order to take the moral high-ground.

Gardner

i know personally one interested party in buying the castle and has made it known that if he is successful he will be closing down the golf course and buying out the other owners of the houses. interesting times ahead!

decies

That doesn't sound very interesting to be honest !! That kind of statement doesn't help anybody .

Padraig Mor

Motivator wrote: »

Out of 47 houses built on the island oy 2 were sold, .

But is that 2 sold 'privately' (bought outright), or 2 sold altogther, including section 23 (for rental, which is how they were being marketed). The first may not be too surprising; the second :eek:

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

the houses were what dragged eveything down. They never sold, were over priced to start with and the money they borrowed was staggering when you see what the end result was.
.

I think they're fantastic. I'm not from Waterford, but we've (family) stayed there several times over the last few years (last visit only a few weeks ago). I really think they are the pick of self catering houses in Ireland - the finish is exceptional and the grounds are lovely. Add the lack of traffic and the little playground and it's ideal for families. And at €300 per week, an absolute steal - although I suspect that may be part of the problem! Everyone we met this year was on vouchers or similar. We have noted though that as, e.g., appliances, furniture etc got broken, they were being replaced with much cheaper ones. Also was wondering on our last visit why they had installed prepay electricity meters in the houses - now we know!

Addictedtogolf

Gardner wrote: »

i know personally one interested party in buying the castle and has made it known that if he is successful he will be closing down the golf course and buying out the other owners of the houses. interesting times ahead!

Must be one wealthy guy to buy the island, hotel, golf course and all the houses. Must be worth 20million+

hardybuck

Addictedtogolf wrote: »

Must be one wealthy guy to buy the island, hotel, golf course and all the houses. Must be worth 20million+

Or with good access to credit.

Deise Vu

Gardner wrote: »

i know personally one interested party in buying the castle and has made it known that if he is successful he will be closing down the golf course and buying out the other owners of the houses. interesting times ahead!

I would be very interested to hear this man's plan. The biggest problem to be faced by any new owner is the Ferry. The ferry has to be avaible 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week for emergency access. This costs serious bucks. As things stand I would say the golf club members fees pay for the ferry operation. If you add the cost of the ferry onto room / chalet rental who is going to take that up, and why aren't they flocking there now?

Because of the ferry it will be impossible to sell in anything other than one job lot. The golf course wants the ferry going back and forth all day during daylight hours, the hotel / chalet need it less but at more flexible times. How could two or three buyers agree on an equitable split not to mention trust each other to survive these troubled times. Not to mention maintenance of roads etc.

For anyone with a couple of million to spare this will be the bargain of the Allsop era. I really seriously hope it is bought by a serious player who develops it to its full potential. It would be a huge draw for the City with the right promotion and investment.

0rt

if it goes under... we should take it...
Imagine that, every kids dream is to have a castle on an island!
get the viking re-enactors to move in!

Addictedtogolf

"For anyone with a couple of million to spare this will be the bargain of the Allsop era. I really seriously hope it is bought by a serious player who develops it to its full potential. It would be a huge draw for the City with the right promotion and investment. "

I don't think a couple of million would go very far. I think 10-15million. If the houses alone were 100k that 5million

Deise Vu

Addictedtogolf wrote: »

"For anyone with a couple of million to spare this will be the bargain of the Allsop era. I really seriously hope it is bought by a serious player who develops it to its full potential. It would be a huge draw for the City with the right promotion and investment. "

I don't think a couple of million would go very far. I think 10-15million. If the houses alone were 100k that 5million

Would you seriously buy a house that requires a private ferry to gain access? Individual sales are complete non-runners and, as I posted earlier, some form of cost-sharing arrangement is not feasible because buyers would have to buy first, then negotiate an arrangement for the ferry.

When the weddings stop and green fees become scarce with the shorter days / foul weather, there won't be the money to run the ferry, let alone staff the golf course and hotel. As this will immediately escalate the costs of security and maintenance to ridiculous levels there will be a quick sale at a knock down price. (Don't forget the receivers / liquidators fees are rapidly mounting too.

The alternative is to maintain the course and castle until the new golf subs are due in January. The problem with that is members may not be too keen to hand over €1K for membership of a teetering golf club and, secondly, potential buyers will not want to be losing out on the fee income. NAMA will want rid of this asap.

Motivator

The ferry costs are astronomical. €4,000 a week which is over €200k a year.

jayboi

What about some sort of draw-bridge dropped down for traffic you could still keep the exclusivity, allow boats to pass and would be cheaper to run in the long term then the ferry

Deise Vu

Motivator wrote: »

The ferry costs are astronomical. €4,000 a week which is over €200k a year.

I have heard several figures bandied about and it is safe to say €200k is only a fraction of most of them. There are something like 7 employees required as it has to be available for 24/7. I don't know what qualifications, if any, are required as the ferry is on chains but it must be better than minimum wage.

Add in licencing, maintenance, diesel, insurance and capital costs and the figure goes through the roof. Certainly not feasible for, say, a management company for the house owners to run (if they were sold individually). The Island was closed for four days earlier this year for the ferry annual maintenance alone. I arrived one Friday morning this year to see traffic backed up the slipway just as a marine engineer, who must have been on speed dial, arrived. Just picture what he charges for that service.