What Can a Toyota Auris Commercial Tow?

johnc284

Hi,

My question for those of you with the relevant knowledge would it be possible to tow a car transporter with a say BMW 5 series on it or is it completely illegal?

Any answers or directions to find out the info are much appreciated.

Thanks,

colm_mcm

Towing capacity is 1000kg AFAIK. So no.

101sean

Not a hope in hell! 1290 - 1510kg depending on engine size.
http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/Caravan-Towing-Car-Match

Most cars and small SUVs have a towing limit of well under 2t despite what you may see outside the local mart. You generally need a full size 4x4 or big car or van to tow something that heavy, 5 series plus trailer must be getting on for 3t. Even then there are some surprisingly low towing limits even among big 4x4s, Land Cruisers here are only rated to 2.8t.

The other minefield that gets regular questions is whether your license covers you, thankfully I got mine back in the 70s so can tow what I like!

derry

Not sure but as far as I know the limits are something like this if your on limited B license
If i recall correctly the limit is the trailer ( braked type ) must be gross (total ) 50% the weight the net weight of the towing vehicle
So I read it as yuo need two ton car when empty to tow a trailer of one ton when its full up including weight of the trailer assume that is 25% of the weight so 3/4 ton cargo is the limit best as i can understand the rules.
The maxuim all up weight of trailer and tow car not to exceed 3.5 tons so atow car of some ~2.25tons net weight would be close to the limit with some ~1.12 ton trailer .(Exception is 3.5 ton delivery type van can tow a trailer of 500 kilos making total of 4 tons )
(Not sure but if you have extended B license or as they say unlimited B license then it might allow the tow car to tow weights that exceed these rules if the trailer is braked )

In realty a car like your probably can tow this set up with modern braked trailers fairly safely on flat roads at slow speeds like 80KPH .(Thats the maxim legal speed when towing anything )
In the past before the new regulations many cars would tow their own weight or more than their own weight with no issues I know we were in boats and many a boat was towed across Ireland by our family and friends by cars with ~1600 to 2000cc engines and the cars did the job fine and boats were often over one ton not counting the extra like trailer and family junk thrown in the back of the boats as well
Where the problem will be is the hills both going up and going down or in bad weather snow ice rain or when severe braking to avoid some problem the trailer can reduce braking distance and control but any severe braking we did worked fine didnt crash because of the trailer boat combo and those days we often towed at 120kPH

The caravan clubs might be better to ask as they tow some huge heavy caravans and some of the cars are small enough 1600cc etc and the refer to 85% weight and that seems to be recommendation as apposed to legal requirements

A flat bed ford transit would car on top would probably still be under the 3.5 ton limit so maybe easier to buy old ford transit flat bed

In France the circus fleets still to this day will tow as many as 4 large trailers behind one truck and you will see them towing their carvan with jeeps and behind the caravan will be the car either on trailers or with car tow system hooked up and towed behind the caravan and the cops don't say anything to them .I suspect there is there fact that if not doing towing for commercial reasons the EU rules cant be really applied to us private motorists and explains why the old car licenses in Ireland seem to be vague on what limits they have for towing (not sure )

Derry

nitna bitna

why dont u just slap a tow hitch on the 5 series and tow the auris

colm_mcm

nitna bitna wrote: »

why dont u just slap a tow hitch on the 5 series and tow the auris

Maybe there's a reason its on a trailer?

Thelostcountry

colm_mcm wrote: »

Maybe there's a reason its on a trailer?

Fookin BMW for ya!

Del2005

derry wrote: »

Not sure but as far as I know the limits are something like this if your on limited B license
If i recall correctly the limit is the trailer ( braked type ) must be gross (total ) 50% the weight the net weight of the towing vehicle
So I read it as yuo need two ton car when empty to tow a trailer of one ton when its full up including weight of the trailer assume that is 25% of the weight so 3/4 ton cargo is the limit best as i can understand the rules.
The maxuim all up weight of trailer and tow car not to exceed 3.5 tons so atow car of some ~2.25tons net weight would be close to the limit with some ~1.12 ton trailer .(Exception is 3.5 ton delivery type van can tow a trailer of 500 kilos making total of 4 tons )
(Not sure but if you have extended B license or as they say unlimited B license then it might allow the tow car to tow weights that exceed these rules if the trailer is braked )

In realty a car like your probably can tow this set up with modern braked trailers fairly safely on flat roads at slow speeds like 80KPH .(Thats the maxim legal speed when towing anything )
In the past before the new regulations many cars would tow their own weight or more than their own weight with no issues I know we were in boats and many a boat was towed across Ireland by our family and friends by cars with ~1600 to 2000cc engines and the cars did the job fine and boats were often over one ton not counting the extra like trailer and family junk thrown in the back of the boats as well
Where the problem will be is the hills both going up and going down or in bad weather snow ice rain or when severe braking to avoid some problem the trailer can reduce braking distance and control but any severe braking we did worked fine didnt crash because of the trailer boat combo and those days we often towed at 120kPH

The caravan clubs might be better to ask as they tow some huge heavy caravans and some of the cars are small enough 1600cc etc and the refer to 85% weight and that seems to be recommendation as apposed to legal requirements

A flat bed ford transit would car on top would probably still be under the 3.5 ton limit so maybe easier to buy old ford transit flat bed


Derry

Our limits aren't vague, people just interoperate them as they want. The RSA have at least but the details on their site.

MAM is DGVW

How can I find out more about towing capacity?

The towing capacity is described for licensing purposes as the maximum authorised mass (MAM). Your owner manual/handbook will have a section in it about vehicle specification that will tell you this and almost all vehicles will have a metal plate fixed to its body which also gives this information.

For trailers the MAM is the weight of a trailer itself together with the heaviest load which it can carry as specified by the trailer manufacturer.

What trailers does my category B licence cover?

You can tow a trailer with a

MAM no greater than 750kg, and/or
Where the MAM of the trailer exceeds 750kg but where the MAM of the vehicle and trailer does not exceed 3500kg.
As a general rule your category B licence would not allow you to tow a horsebox or a livestock trailer for bringing animals to the local mart.

What trailers does my category BE licence cover?

You can tow a trailer

In all cases where the MAM of the vehicle and trailer combination is greater than 3500kg but less than 7000kg.
In cases where the MAM of the trailer is greater than 750kg. However, note previous question where in certain cases a category B licence will allow you to tow a trailer over 750kg.
A car with a towing capacity of 2000kg can draw a trailer with a plated MAM of 3500kg provided the combination of the weight of the trailer and any load does not exceed the towing capacity of the car e.g. 2000kg.

derry wrote: »

In France the circus fleets still to this day will tow as many as 4 large trailers behind one truck and you will see them towing their carvan with jeeps and behind the caravan will be the car either on trailers or with car tow system hooked up and towed behind the caravan and the cops don't say anything to them .I suspect there is there fact that if not doing towing for commercial reasons the EU rules cant be really applied to us private motorists and explains why the old car licenses in Ireland seem to be vague on what limits they have for towing (not sure )

With the recent standardisation of EU licences this has now been stopped. Any new licence issued in any EU country is the same as ours

derry

Del2005 wrote: »

With the recent standardisation of EU licences this has now been stopped. Any new licence issued in any EU country is the same as ours

Well they clearly didn't tell the French that fact this year in France I overtook a convoy from circus or amusement machine operators of them towing all their 4 wagon trailers and three tow along from jeeps and cops over took them and kept going . For many years when either on holidays or living in France I seen them in France and it fascinates me how the 4 wagons can all go around a round about like follow the leader so i like to watch them as the convoys parade through towns and police pay no attention to them .

Best I can see in most of EU having seen all sorts the only limits to what a car can tow are what the engine can pull as I seen monster caravans and monster power boats being towed by fairly average family cars probably never get past third gear but they tow them and never seen cops stop them

Best I can figure is the cops apply natural law to them that is they are not commercial traffic and natural law doesn't place any restrictions on driving or towing the only regulation is you got to have the hazard sign on the back i know got fined for no hazard sign .I went to Spain a few years ago in April and it wasn't a requirement in April to have Hazard signs for trailer as I brought one down from UK through France to Spain a empty ambulance trailer to pick up my friends car A class Merc there in Spain . I stayed in Spain a few months and while there picked up friends car and put it on ambulance trailer The tow car my Toyota Carina 2000cc diesel was the tow car and cars and trailer total weight way past these rules the RSA talk about . However the system was Hydraulic braking so it stopped real quick Then in September I went to leave with trailer and car on tow and cops pulled me for no hazard sign .The law changed in Spain in July any trailer must have a Hazard sign and I didn't hear about it .Cost me €40 for the fine and €40 for the hazard sign .Cops were not interested in trailer and size of it and the type of license .The cops were making a killing pulling in lots of tourists with trailer or bike racks with no hazard signs .As best i could tell the only things they pulled in were those types of cars. Lucky the tow wasn't too far 300 kilometers near to Madrid only to bring it Barcelona to ship the car back to UK as hard to get faster than 70 KPH with the weight of small A class Merc .The trailer was his trailer so car and trailer went to UK on a ship. I have towed much bigger than that in the past using 1800cc or 2300 cc petrol when towwng boats in the olden days and cant say towing big things is any fun mostly boring as speeds are often so slow like 60KPH .In boating the rule we used then If the loads are going to be more than 60% the cars weight then it had to be a hydraulic slave braking system with 4 or 6 wheel trailers always keep RPM high 3000 plus and don't even try to go past 3rd gear or the clutch could give up and watch the water temp like hawk.

Back in Spain this week for holidays with my same Toyota drove down through France and I seen things so many crazy things being towed here here and in France that definitely they don't listen to the RSA in Europe

Not so long ago I was cattle market with my cousin with his old 91 diesel merc 2300cc he and many farmers with several head of large cattle in trailer were clearly way past any RSA rules but Garda in that region don't seem to hassle them

Derry

Del2005

derry wrote: »

Well they clearly didn't tell the French that fact this year in France I overtook a convoy from circus or amusement machine operators of them towing all their 4 wagon trailers and three tow along from jeeps and cops over took them and kept going . For many years when either on holidays or living in France I seen them in France and it fascinates me how the 4 wagons can all go around a round about like follow the leader so i like to watch them as the convoys parade through towns and police pay no attention to them .

Which part of new licences issued in the EU is the same as ours did you miss? I've a B licence which lets me ride a Moped, can't be gotten anymore, my EB is unrestricted EB licence while the new ones have a weight restriction. None of these can be removed from me. Just like people with licences longer than me got EB, C1, D1 when the passed the B test. Or the even older people who didn't even have to sit a test to get all the licences.

derry wrote: »

Best I can see in most of EU having seen all sorts the only limits to what a car can tow are what the engine can pull as I seen monster caravans and monster power boats being towed by fairly average family cars probably never get past third gear but they tow them and never seen cops stop them

Best I can figure is the cops apply natural law to them that is they are not commercial traffic and natural law doesn't place any restrictions on driving or towing the only regulation is you got to have the hazard sign on the back i know got fined for no hazard sign .I went to Spain a few years ago in April and it wasn't a requirement in April to have Hazard signs for trailer as I brought one down from UK through France to Spain a empty ambulance trailer to pick up my friends car A class Merc there in Spain . I stayed in Spain a few months and while there picked up friends car and put it on ambulance trailer The tow car my Toyota Carina 2000cc diesel was the tow car and cars and trailer total weight way past these rules the RSA talk about . However the system was Hydraulic braking so it stopped real quick Then in September I went to leave with trailer and car on tow and cops pulled me for no hazard sign .The law changed in Spain in July any trailer must have a Hazard sign and I didn't hear about it .Cost me €40 for the fine and €40 for the hazard sign .Cops were not interested in trailer and size of it and the type of license .The cops were making a killing pulling in lots of tourists with trailer or bike racks with no hazard signs .As best i could tell the only things they pulled in were those types of cars. Lucky the tow wasn't too far 300 kilometers near to Madrid only to bring it Barcelona to ship the car back to UK as hard to get faster than 70 KPH with the weight of small A class Merc .The trailer was his trailer so car and trailer went to UK on a ship. I have towed much bigger than that in the past using 1800cc or 2300 cc petrol when towwng boats in the olden days and cant say towing big things is any fun mostly boring as speeds are often so slow like 60KPH .In boating the rule we used then If the loads are going to be more than 60% the cars weight then it had to be a hydraulic slave braking system with 4 or 6 wheel trailers always keep RPM high 3000 plus and don't even try to go past 3rd gear or the clutch could give up and watch the water temp like hawk.

Back in Spain this week for holidays with my same Toyota drove down through France and I seen things so many crazy things being towed here here and in France that definitely they don't listen to the RSA in Europe

Not so long ago I was cattle market with my cousin with his old 91 diesel merc 2300cc he and many farmers with several head of large cattle in trailer were clearly way past any RSA rules but Garda in that region don't seem to hassle them

Derry

Can you let me know next time your gong to overload a vehicle so I can avoid the roads you'll be travelling on?

derry

Del2005 wrote: »

Can you let me know next time your gong to overload a vehicle so I can avoid the roads you'll be travelling on?

Apart from wrapping yourself in cotton wool when I worked in warehousing loading courier vans many of those were way past the specified loads 3.5 tons max all up and i seens lots of farmers with with loads way past the 3.5 tonnes be it hay or food or cattle so your living in country where every corner lurks the over loaded something or other or the Russian truck driver who will follow orders to get his 40 tin truck from Dublin to Cork in one hour .

Most Garda wouldn't have clue what a B versus a EB license is they only fiond out when there is accident and they have to fill in reports .If they stopped all the Farmers doing thier stuff the loads they been doing for the last 40 years the country would grind to a halt as only farming is still making some money .
Anyway the good news for you is I rarely now do towing in ROI. Most of the towing I used to do was UK to EU mainland and that's mostly small caravans and small trailer tents deliveries with the odd monster caravan ( which I preferred to avoid as there wasn't much extra money in the larger caravan deliveries and the speeds were often terrible especially if its windy against your direction of travel ) .Then I changed my line of work and remain fairly static locally with small delivery van stuff but i do miss the long trips so might go back to it . I once came across a horse box with one horse injured when the horse box went out of control in corner and toppled over .A injured horse to catch on a busy road that was some event and the LWB land rover and Horse box trailer were all within legal weights and the speed limit wasn't broken just bad luck event Sh1t happens .I was Switzerland and main road straight was icy in patches and work 4 x4 heavy thing towing medium sized low weight trailer went and jackknifed in front of me .Probably all legal weights so things happen the road is dangerous place to be the governments have no duty of care to protect you once you venture onto the roads so they just make attempts to reduce the problems but once you got one ton plus things on roads with no barriers to stop the traffic colliding with each other head on then its pot luck where you you will die if the guy in front of you coming towards you momentary drifts into your lane because he had momentary lack of attention.I been run off the road several times from that sort of thing bent wheels axles you name it but avoided the head on s to live to tell the tales .I even had cars come at me on carriage ways going down the wrong way contra sense to the correct traffic flow and spun off into the ditch to avoid the imminent head on crash . The ROADS IN ROI are not for the faint heated why even ministers have been caught drunk going the wrong way down motor ways .

Also B license will legally allow you to ride 125ccc motor bike ( road quad ) in Spain so change location I often hire those its a blast in warm weather of Spain so rules vary across the EU same license different rules

If you think Ireland is bad try the third world that's scary even for me

Derry

aujopimur

Funfair and circus operators always had exemptions with regard to multiple trailers and are fully insured to do so provided they comply with certain regulations.
The idea of multipal trailers goes back to horse and traction (steam) engine drawn method of moving from town to town.
If you ever come across old funfair trailers you'll see a towing eye on the back.

derry

aujopimur wrote: »

Funfair and circus operators always had exemptions with regard to multiple trailers and are fully insured to do so provided they comply with certain regulations.
The idea of multipal trailers goes back to horse and traction (steam) engine drawn method of moving from town to town.
If you ever come across old funfair trailers you'll see a towing eye on the back.

So then how does it work they have big jeep that pulls large caravan and then behind the caravan there is hook for the car ambulance with car on top or a car on on front wheel ambulance to tow car on its back wheels and one time I saw the car was also pulling trailer . Now I am sure if I try that stunt they pull me in but these guys seems to hooked into some other universe or laws that we cant access but we get the EU crap .My guess is they told the EU laws feck off and the EU laws did

If its good for the goose it good for the gander
I done lots of towing including towing 11 foot wide 4 ton boat with two ton trailer with 2.5 ton jeep pulling it and there was no problems in those mid 1990 Halcon days before the dumb ass EU poked it nose into everything

If i had Evantus and it had enough muscle to pull the loads and wanted to put a BMW 3 or 5 or 7 series on it I would just do it provided the ambulance had a good suitable braking system because i never had any issues with all the tows i did when the braking system was good and you kept speeds sensible for the conditions of the day. I pulled loads like that even in ice and never problems accept to get rolling from stopped as the chains take time to bite into ice
I seen more issues with small trailers less than 500kgs AUW with no breaking as they can easily start to swing around when stopping as often small single axle trailers have no breaking systems and ride off the cars 4 wheels breaking systems

I am pretty sure if I went to the UK nowdays I will see family cars 1600cc pulling ambulances with larger cars on them as many UK people collect cars for all sorts various reasons and they don't want those cars driving on the roads either due to tax or to repairs or something

My guess is the farmers down the bogs are also saying to the EU feck off and good on them

Derry