Star Citizen (Thinly veiled 'How many Irish backing this?')

Kiith

I've been pretty against the way they've been doing their business model for a while now. It just seems that they are more interested in making new ships to sell, than actually getting the game working as intended. I'm sure that's not the case, but i just can't see how they justify charging the prices they are for some of these ships. Crazy money.

Still looking forward to the game, but i won't be paying anything till i see more then just Arena Commander.

humanji

In fairness though, they have a team working on the game, with other teams working on separate parts. The ships themselves are designed by one team and sent on to another who then create them in 3d and in the game engine, and it's then handed to the main team to integrate it into the full game. So it's not like they're wasting time on designing ships when they could be spending that time squashing bugs and finishing code.

What really strikes me as odd are the people buying the concept ships. At least if you buy one of the current lineup, you can see what it looks like, see the 3d models of them and in some cases you can fly them. But the concept ones are just drawings that are nowhere near finalised, there's no real clear idea as to how they'll fit into the game (which itself isn't finalised) and cost an absolute fortune. Like the Javelin, which they sold 200 of them at €2500 a pop! That's madness. And you need a large organisation to fly the thing, so you already have to hope that all the people you may currently be pseudo-teaming up with, will keep on playing the game after launch.

The_Valeyard

I could see the use for the Javelin, if say a community or org each contributed cash towards it: Say 200 members each gave $20 contribution, then the org could build it over time and use it for PVP against other groups, like in EVE, but for the average player, no need for a ship like that at all.

Varik

A week hasn't gone by where I've not considered buying in, but don't know what to buy or if I'd be better off with the base package.

The problem I see is that the game has hit about $70m with only 500k unique users, that's a high amount of people who'll be straight into the late stage or almost endgame with few people at the bottom.

And we've no idea how in in-game time or effort these ships will cos.

What has anyone already bought?

humanji

They do sell the idea that the ship you have doesn't necessarily mean you have an advantage over everyone else. Some will obviously be better in some situations, but worse in others. Things like large ships not being able to go through some of the jump points, for example. And there's also the private servers that they've said they'll allow, which means you and friends can have your own server and give yourselves any ship you feel like having, or limit the bigger ones so that everyone starts with a small ship.

It'll be interesting to see if that pans out. I'm hoping that they manage to balance it out so that aiming to buy ships isn't what the game is about and people can create a kind of Second Life in Space.

As for ships, a load of my friends pitched in to buy me a Constellation for my birthday, which is probably the only way I'd be able to get one. It's cool looking, but is nothing more than hangar decoration until they let me fly it.

The_Valeyard

It does have the potential to be a truly immersive and amazing game.

Kirby

Absolutely. I'm massively looking forward to it but I am not paying them a cent until the game is ready for release.

I mean think about it. Can you imagine if EA or Ubisoft asked people to pay now for the Mass effect or assassins creed that was due out in 2017? There would be uproar.

I want a cool ship as much as the next guy but im astonished how much money are paying to this company on a promise. It's madness.

Wossack

my main concern is with all these very invested players, its going to be very hard to balance anything without incurring a mini-nerdpocalypse each time

humanji

I'd count that more as a highlight than a concern. :P

Venom

humanji wrote: »

I'd count that more as a highlight than a concern. :P

I can already see the nerf/un-nerf threads on the official forums regarding how overpowered/underpowered ships that cost a few hundred quid are

ED E

Theyve been clear from the start though, the stats are 100% liable to change. They arent near balancing yet.

I lost my missiles, thieving bastards, but it makes sense that a basic grunt doesnt have a killer barrage.

The_Valeyard

PTU is back up for testing again, for those who wish to give feedback about up and coming patches.

Zillah

Wossack wrote: »

my main concern is with all these very invested players, its going to be very hard to balance anything without incurring a mini-nerdpocalypse each time

I cannot wait to see thousands of dorks foaming at the mouth in rage that their utterly impossible fantasies about the most magical game ever did not come to pass.

R0ot

Zillah wrote: »

I cannot wait to see thousands of dorks foaming at the mouth in rage that their utterly impossible fantasies about the most magical game ever did not come to pass.

So like every game in history I also look forward to the point where folks decry all the insurance and benefits people have in game that they can't get because they joined after release

EoinHef

Zillah wrote: »

I cannot wait to see thousands of dorks foaming at the mouth in rage that their utterly impossible fantasies about the most magical game ever did not come to pass.

I dont know,looks like its coming along nicely to me:) And the guy in this vid is in an entry level ship,not some €200 ship. Takes awhile to develop a game,seems most children on the net dont understand this.

Maximus Alexander

I put €100 into this... must be a year ago? I haven't thought about it since. I'm just waiting until the hype machine spins up to signal that it's almost ready and then I'll get interested.

If it turns out to be a disappointment, then so be it. I knew I was taking a gamble. I don't know how people get themselves so worked up over these things.

Zillah

EoinHef wrote: »

Takes awhile to develop a game,seems most children on the net dont understand this.

What a passive aggressive comment

I'm not saying it doesn't look fun, I'm saying that people that have invested $10k are never going to be satisfied with what they get. They might convince themselves that they are satisfied, mostly because they'll look like God damned fools if they admit that they wasted thousands of dollars on imaginary possessions in a computer game.

Lone Stone

spend 10k on a ship, guy gets paid 16 euro an hour to make it in an afternoon = profit

Maximus Alexander

Lone Stone wrote: »

spend 10k on a ship, guy gets paid 16 euro an hour to make it in an afternoon = profit

In fairness, there'd be quite a few man hours involved in getting a ship from the first sketch to being integrated into the game.

Not $10k worth of man hours. But not an afternoon either.

cork guitar player

I waiting to jump into this , may have to throw a few €€€ into the PC I think first.

I have not been inside a decent space sim since the 80's. Old fart.

Venom

I know the finished game is a long way off yet but is the only way to get new ships via buying one via the cash shop or can you get them via in game means?

Kiith

You can get all the ships that are currently on sale for cash in game once it's released.

Apparently.

humanji

You will also apparently be able to just steal them from people in game and find some abandoned ones that you'll have to fix up yourself. It's basically a Tesco car park simulator.

Shiminay

Can anyone give me a TL;DR of what this game is up to and how likely it is to ever get finished? Elite Dangerous just doesn't seem to have enough in it to keep me playing long term I think.

Smiley92a

Shiminay wrote: »

Can anyone give me a TL;DR of what this game is up to and how likely it is to ever get finished? Elite Dangerous just doesn't seem to have enough in it to keep me playing long term I think.

Hmm. Well, I suppose you could say that SC plans to have a big focus on depth. Just the fact you could stand up and climb out the airlock of your ship was what intrigued me initially, as someone who played the x games a lot, but there'll be a big on-foot element to it. At the moment the dog fighting module is out (single and multiplayer), and a lot of the single-seat ships are flyable. The balance changes from patch to patch, but the ships are all pretty agile and there's a lot of emphasis on lateral movement. Learn to strafe.

Multi-crew ships are planned for roughly next year, along with the fps module. We've already seen alpha footage of both. Final release is about a year after that, I think.

It's pretty likely to get done. Chris Roberts is the sort of person who could attract a lot of backers, and also had the industry contacts to assemble a professional team actually capable of making something like this. Short of a meteor hitting Austin, I think they'll be fine.

The_Valeyard

Smiley92a wrote: »

Hmm. Well, I suppose you could say that SC plans to have a big focus on depth. Just the fact you could stand up and climb out the airlock of your ship was what intrigued me initially, as someone who played the x games a lot, but there'll be a big on-foot element to it. At the moment the dog fighting module is out (single and multiplayer), and a lot of the single-seat ships are flyable. The balance changes from patch to patch, but the ships are all pretty agile and there's a lot of emphasis on lateral movement. Learn to strafe.

Multi-crew ships are planned for roughly next year, along with the fps module. We've already seen alpha footage of both. Final release is about a year after that, I think.

It's pretty likely to get done. Chris Roberts is the sort of person who could attract a lot of backers, and also had the industry contacts to assemble a professional team actually capable of making something like this. Short of a meteor hitting Austin, I think they'll be fine.

I'm pretty sure the fps module and multi crew ships are later this year.

ED E

The community content in Around The Verse and the dev blogs make the whole process quite transparent. Its clear theyre actually working hard, and progress it pretty damn impressive.

Remember, they're re-engineering the cry-engine to use double precision because the game is on a whole new scale. The project is huge with dev teams in four cities. At this point its gained so much critical mass it cant not reach full release.

The_Valeyard

I see they are going to revamp the Connie for a third time...

humanji

I'd imagine, since the constellation is Roberts' favourite ship (so far), there'll be a good few more updates to that, over the updates to the others.

R0ot

Dear zombie jebus, people have exploded over the REC system being introduced.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14502-Design-Rental-Equipment-Credits

Design: Rental Equipment Credits


We’ve all been there: a budding young Aurora pilot loads up Arena Commander to play for the first time. That first battle isn’t a great success, but between the ‘First!’ medal bonus and a lucky missile, enough REC is earned that an F7C Hornet doesn’t seem that impossible to earn. A few matches later, the mechanics of space flight are starting to be understood, so the REC flows a bit easier and it isn’t much longer before even the Super Hornet is within reach. Diving all in for the big guns, our plucky hero has become death, destroyer of worlds… and it feels good! But as often happens, life gets in the way, and it’s over a week later before the Star Citizen logo comes back on screen. Imagine the surprise to find that Super Hornet still selectable in the Arena Commander start menu! A few matches later the rental use runs out, but it’s enough time to earn up the REC to take advantage that sweet renewal discount. Dogfighting is a great thrill of course, but eventually curiosity takes hold and the next rental is an M50. What a difference! Racing seemed so trivial before, but this thing can really fly. At this point, any new arrangement of ships or equipment is always attainable with just a little bit of focused play. Still, there was something special about that first Super Hornet, so maybe it’s worth keeping around…

What are REC?

REC, or Rental Equipment Credits, is a virtual currency that can be spent in Voyager Direct or the mobiGlas virtual store to rent software licenses on any equipment that can be used in the Sim-Pod (future iterations of Arena Commander will be accessed through a pod added to your Hangar.) Players earn REC through success in Sim-Pod activities – Arena Commander, the upcoming FPS Module, etc – with additional medals providing bonus REC and recurring incentives for progression.

Ship selection mockup.
Ship selection mockup.
How do I Earn REC?

REC is earned by playing competitive (ranked) multiplayer matches of Arena Commander, the FPS Module or any other Simulated Experience in Star Citizen. Each match awards REC from a common pot, awarding the greater share to the winners, which is then split among the members of the team based on performance. For example, in Arena Commander:

Squadron Battle: – REC is earned based on the number of kills plus the k:d if positive, weighted against the ticket difference.
Murray Cup: – REC is earned based on the final position multiplied by the proximity to World Record (by ship), weighted against Personal Best (by ship)
Capture the Core: – REC is earned based on personal score weighted against the score difference.
Players can also earn bonus REC from medals, which are awarded for various milestones – umber of kills earned, number of missiles dodged, total matches, etc. These medals track over multiple matches and are recurring, so players can always make some progression even if they only play a match or two here and there.

To prevent exploitation, this pot is associated with a total score expected from all participants, and scales REC yield based on the total score actually achieved. It also scales based on the number of participants. For example, a REC pot of 12,000 with a total score of 100,000 will only split 9600 REC if the players only collectively manage to score a total of 80,000 points. That same game will only split 4800 REC if the 10 player match only gets 5 participants.

Mock-up REC interface for mobiGlas
Mock-up REC interface for mobiGlas
How does the rental system work?

All rented equipment is rented for one week of real time use – guaranteeing that you always get at least a little bit of time with the ship. Ships and weapons cost 10% of their UEC price, rounded up. Once an item has been rented, it can be renewed for another week at a 20% discount. Renewals can only be bought a week in advance. (Remaining rental time is visible in your RSI account and within the Sim-Pod HoloTable)

Examples:
9-series Longsword: 4,000 UEC; 400 REC. (320 REC renewal)
M4A Laser Cannon: 8,000 UEC; 800 REC. (640 REC renewal)
Hornet F7C: 140,000 UEC; 14,000 REC. (11,200 REC renewal)
Redeemer: 250,000 UEC; 25,000 REC. (20,000 REC renewal)

There are also broader goals available for the REC endgame – for example, we envision building a Community Chest into which players can donate REC that builds towards permanent prizes and other gameplay experiences. Imagine having the option between renting new equipment or helping the community earn something together… it should make for an interesting challenge!

Current Balance Plan

Averaged at 1800 REC per hour. Please note that this currently represents ‘back of the envelope’ thinking; actual balance will likely alter significantly after the system launches and we determine how players use the system. But the goal remains to create a system that makes renting additional equipment a fun challenge rather than an impossible chore.

Ship Cost: at 10% UEC, F7C rents for 14,000 REC. (7.7hr)
Weapon Cost: at 10% UEC, M4A rents for 800 REC. (26.6min)
Renewal Discount: at 20%, F7C renews for 11200 REC. (6.2hr)
Real Time Rented: 1 week.
Payout Pot (Per Game Mode): 10k for full Squad Battle, split 70-30.
Game Modes that Yield REC
Squadron Battle
Battle Royale
New Horizons Raceway
Capture the Core

Can I use rented ships and equipment in non-ranked modes?

Yes, and there will be no limit on such uses.

How do I spend REC?

REC is spent on ship and equipment rentals or Sim Pod unlocks. This can be done from Voyager Direct, the mobiGlas, or the Sim Pod. Once a ship/item is rented, it can be renewed for 1 additional week at a discount.

As the system is developed, REC can also be spent to unlock additions to your Sim Pod, such as aesthetic changes like different background images/theme in the menus, or gameplay changes like opt-in handicaps which can be taken to boost REC yield at the cost of additional gameplay restrictions. Finally, REC can also (eventually) be donated to the Community Chest, a mystery box that results in Community Events when enough total REC is accumulated. Community Events benefit all players who log on while they are in effect.

Will my equipment carry over into the Persistent Universe?

No, equipment rented in Arena Commander will be available only in your sim pod. When the Persistent Universe launches, you will have access only to upgrades purchased with UEC (or provided as gifts during the pledge campaign.) But we anticipate Arena Commander continuing to exist in the Star Citizen universe; it is, after all, a game played in SC’s future!

Why have rental items instead of permanent ones?

We know that choosing rental equipment instead of permanent AC-only unlocks will likely be the most controversial part of this plan. We’ve run through countless scenarios offering one, the other or a mix of both… and what we’ve decided is that at this time, rental is the way to go. What follows is the five key points we used to make this decision:

Arena Commander progression should NOT equal Persistent Universe progression. We believe strongly that players need to go out into the world to truly progress; a system that permanently rewards you for staying home and playing the simulator will reduce that experience in the long run.
It is a buffer against exploits. We fully expect players to discover bugs and loopholes in the REC system… but with a one-week rental deadline, the most damage they can do to the game is unbalancing it for one week.
It’s a first blush at future balance goals. The goal has always been to balance effort and convenience – whether you have time or money, you should be able to have a good experience. That’s going to take a lot of work to get right, so this is the earliest possible version of it to help us start to understand how this will work out in the wild.
It allows for a tool for ‘directing’ testing. If we are going to be working on a particular ship or item, we can put it on sale – a tactic that wouldn’t affect players who had already unlocked it.
It prevents stagnation during alpha. It should not ever be possible to “complete” (or win) this pre-alpha game.
What’s Next?

We envision enhancing the REC system alongside everything else in Arena Commander going forward! In addition to building the system out based on player feedback, we have several systems we hope to deploy in future patches:

Daily Challenges

REC can be earned by completing personal and community daily challenges. Community challenges pay out at the end of the day if they have been fulfilled, and reward all players who have contributed to the challenge at all. These also have the benefit of allowing new gameplay features to be highlighted.

Personal Challenge Examples
Get 10 kills at 50% throttle
Dodge 10 missiles without using countermeasures.
Capture the Core 10 times.

Community Challenge Examples
Kill 3000 vanduul in Coop Swarm
Complete 500 laps in Old Vanderval
5000 total kills.

Community Chest

The Community Chest accumulates with REC donated to it until it reaches 100%, when it activates a surprise Community Event that is available to all players during its duration (which can be set individually for each event, but which would generally last 2 weeks). When it reaches 100%, a Community Event begins and is available to all players during its duration.

Discounts / Bonus Yield

REC discounts on specific ships and equipment can be used to encourage users towards their use. Ships can also give bonuses to REC as additional incentive.

We are hoping to launch the REC system with Arena Commander’s next major patch, currently scheduled to be AC 1.1. This will allow backers to earn REC and spend them on store items. Additional functionality will be added as we go, just like the rest of the AC development process! Until then, please provide your feedback below. You’re helping us build Star Citizen AND Arena Commander, and we want to know what you think!