Carl Froch vs George Groves

walshb

Andrew Flexing wrote: »

Personally I dont want to see another Froch v Kessler...or Froch v DeGale...

I'd love him to go after Bika, getthe WBC then go out on top! I don't see him beating 3G or Chavez Jnr in Vegas

Bika makes for horrible fights!

Duggie2012

i couldn't see froch getting up for the deGale fight, it would be like a groves scenario all over again for him, and groves is a better fighter than deGale IMO.

unknown13

One thing I hope we see is a result of Froch / Groves II, is that when you make the fights at the right time they will get massive attention. I hope Frampton's team see this.

We lost Price / Fury, thankfully we got Froch / Groves II.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Deiseboy01

Andrew Flexing wrote: »

Kessler v Groves would be interesting!

Would be a very risky fight for Groves. He cant afford another loss after the last two so I see the Saurland guys managing him quite conservatively. Maybe a couple of easier fights first to build confidence while working on his defence and stamina issues.

Would set up a Froch v Kessler III nicely though if Kessler were to win.

I see Froch fighting Chavez in Vegas next followed by a final payday in Britian next summer possibly v Ward.

boxer.fan

I would like to see Froch get in with Bika. Bika is one of those boxers with a real awkward style & is hard as nails. That would set him up nicely for a rematch with Ward.

kryogen

I would be very surprised if there is a re match with Ward, why would he want to bow out in defeat?

FTA69

kryogen wrote: »

I would be very surprised if there is a re match with Ward, why would he want to bow out in defeat?

Millions and millions of dollars?

:pac:

walshb

FTA69 wrote: »

Millions and millions of dollars?

:pac:

Not sure it would be a huge seller. Could probably get better money elsewhere.

FTA69

walshb wrote: »

Not sure it would be a huge seller. Could probably get better money elsewhere.

I'd agree with you to be honest. Froch v Chavez Jr would probably put more arses on seats than a fight between him and Ward. Is Froch even a big name in America anyway?

walshb

FTA69 wrote: »

I'd agree with you to be honest. Froch v Chavez Jr would probably put more arses on seats than a fight between him and Ward. Is Froch even a big name in America anyway?

With the whole British hype machine behind him I think he'd be a bigger seller than Ward in America. Chavez or GGG vs. Froch would sell more than Ward against any of the three of them, for example!

kryogen

FTA69 wrote: »

Millions and millions of dollars?

:pac:

There is no way that Ward would be the most lucrative fight out there for him, he would also have no chance of winning, well a punchers chance I suppose at best.

The biggest considerations will be money, prestige and his legacy

Chavez jr fits the bill perfectly imo

yourdeadwright

Cant see how people can argue that Carl did not control the fight,
He did and did so brilliantly, he may not have won every round but he controlled what type of fight it was,
He constantly broke Groves flow and made him fight the way Carl wanted to, I dont think controlling the fight means you dominate it but more so that it takes place the way u want it to ,

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Cant see how people can argue that Carl did not control the fight,
He did and did so brilliantly, he may not have won every round but he controlled what type of fight it was,
He constantly broke Groves flow and made him fight the way Carl wanted to, I dont think controlling the fight means you dominate it but more so that it takes place the way u want it to ,

I would kind of agree. Carl decided on the flow and movement in the ring.

Spazdarn

kryogen wrote: »

There is no way that Ward would be the most lucrative fight out there for him, he would also have no chance of winning, well a punchers chance I suppose at best.

The biggest considerations will be money, prestige and his legacy

Chavez jr fits the bill perfectly imo

Wards talent far outweighs his popularity, no one but hardcore boxing fans know him... and considering what he's achieved that's pretty disgraceful promoting.

kryogen

ToiletFusion wrote: »

Wards talent far outweighs his popularity, no one but hardcore boxing fans know him... and considering what he's achieved that's pretty disgraceful promoting.

He has to look at himself for a lot of that too in fairness

Johnnythefox4

Anyone else think Froch is being a very arrogant and ungracious winner?

Groves' antics made this fight into the event it was and gave Froch his biggest ever payday. I mean even in this interview he disrespects Groves.

http://www1.skysports.com/boxing/news/12183/9337554/boxing-carl-froch-wants-julio-cesar-chavez-jr-ahead-of-james-degale-bout

Andrew Flexing

Johnnythefox4 wrote: »

Anyone else think Froch is being a very arrogant and ungracious winner?

Groves' antics made this fight into the event it was and gave Froch his biggest ever payday. I mean even in this interview he disrespects Groves.

http://www1.skysports.com/boxing/news/12183/9337554/boxing-carl-froch-wants-julio-cesar-chavez-jr-ahead-of-james-degale-bout

No. Groves was a complete d!ck toward Froch for the last year. He played mind games with Froch. If I was in Froch's position and someone did that to me I'd be more that happy to say that I put him in his place....which what Froch is doing. Good on him!

Tobyglen

Froch is a horrible winner. Nothing worse to see a person spit all over a guy after beating him. He's nowhere near the top super middleweights, Eubank, Benn, Calzage, Collins would have smashed him, nevermind Jones, Toney, Leonard, Hearns, Hagler, Duran etc.

He's blown up out of all proportion, his movement is ponderous, reflexes slow. His asset is that he has a good chin and is a tough nut but skill wise he's not up to much and certainly not world class. It says it all that he's practically an unknown in the states and hasn't fought in Vegas.

hsbc

Froch will have two more fights imo - first against Chavez in Vegas and then a final fight with Kessler maybe in Nottingham to sign out. DeGale hasn't done enough to get a fight with him.

walshb

Johnnythefox4 wrote: »

Anyone else think Froch is being a very arrogant and ungracious winner?

Groves' antics made this fight into the event it was and gave Froch his biggest ever payday. I mean even in this interview he disrespects Groves.

http://www1.skysports.com/boxing/news/12183/9337554/boxing-carl-froch-wants-julio-cesar-chavez-jr-ahead-of-james-degale-bout

Not seeing what you are in that interview. It's tame.

walshb

Tobyglen wrote: »

Froch is a horrible winner. Nothing worse to see a person spit all over a guy after beating him. .

I assume the use of the word spit is not to be taken literally? Anyway, what was so bad from Froch after the win?

willmunny1990

Froch is a genuinely arrogant individual, it always comes out after fights.

He tries to portray himself as this calm, even minded mister cool who is unbiased and respectful but the mask always slips and he just becomes this self indulgent person who fawns over himself after fights.

Chavez Jr is probably the best option, It'll be in Vegas and its a fight he can win.

Bika would make for an ugly encounter and DeGale would be extremely hard to get up for IMO and justifiably so tbh, no point mentioning Ward, not marketable and he beats Froch 7 days out of the week anyway and Froch knows this.

Duggie2012

willmunny1990 wrote: »

Froch is a genuinely arrogant individual, it always comes out after fights.

He tries to portray himself as this calm, even minded mister cool who is unbiased and respectful but the mask always slips and he just becomes this self indulgent person who fawns over himself after fights.

Chavez Jr is probably the best option, It'll be in Vegas and its a fight he can win.

Bika would make for an ugly encounter and DeGale would be extremely hard to get up for IMO and justifiably so tbh, no point mentioning Ward, not marketable and he beats Froch 7 days out of the week anyway and Froch knows this.

Ya he just dosen't seem that likeable of a person. i was hoping groves would have taken him out last fight but not to be. he is one tough nut though i'll give him that.

Strongbow10

willmunny1990 wrote: »

Froch is a genuinely arrogant individual, it always comes out after fights.

He tries to portray himself as this calm, even minded mister cool who is unbiased and respectful but the mask always slips and he just becomes this self indulgent person who fawns over himself after fights.

Chavez Jr is probably the best option, It'll be in Vegas and its a fight he can win.

Bika would make for an ugly encounter and DeGale would be extremely hard to get up for IMO and justifiably so tbh, no point mentioning Ward, not marketable and he beats Froch 7 days out of the week anyway and Froch knows this.

This is pretty much on the money, when the mask slips with Froch (and it always does with Froch) he shows himself to be a bit of an egotist.

I had to laugh when watching his Sky Sports special called "a special day", it involved sick children meeting their heroes, there was one on Wayne Rooney aswell.

The young kid met Froch after his first Groves fight and looking straight down the camera Froch told everyone how humbled he was and was keen to stress that even though he was a 3 time world champ he was still humbled by it.

I'll probably sound insulting now but there are not many very likeable fighters to the core in boxing, but its probably the way they are conditioned. In a sport where self promotion is so important in their development.

Froch is bitter about having to do it the hard way i'd imagine, having seen other fighters receive alot of fanfare, wealth and hype in their early career (Amir Khan being a subject of his criticism before).

Froch has developed this new warrior persona from Sky and has been coached in the ways of seeming affable and as a man of the people but it is just that, its a mask. He is not the most likeable of blokes and seems quite insecure about his spot but in fairness he is pretty old school in that he has taken on all comers and beaten most of them.

Most fighters would have a loss or 2 if they were to fight all of their competition but 90% of elite fighters don't do this, so Froch deserves kudos aswell.

T-K-O

Tobyglen wrote: »

Froch is a horrible winner. Nothing worse to see a person spit all over a guy after beating him. He's nowhere near the top super middleweights, Eubank, Benn, Calzage, Collins would have smashed him, nevermind Jones, Toney, Leonard, Hearns, Hagler, Duran etc.

He's blown up out of all proportion, his movement is ponderous, reflexes slow. His asset is that he has a good chin and is a tough nut but skill wise he's not up to much and certainly not world class. It says it all that he's practically an unknown in the states and hasn't fought in Vegas.

Tripe, pure Tripe.

walshb

T-K-O wrote: »

Tripe, pure Tripe.

I tend to agree. I would have Calzaghe beating Froch most times. Too fast and busy. Froch does well against the others.

T-K-O

Quote from Sky
"I'll repeat that. George Groves beat James DeGale and I've just absolutely annihilated George Groves so that's not a big fight."

Some of the comments about Froch are ridiculous. The man has had an excellent career avenging all but one loss. As for coming across a bad winner, I wasn't reading those comments before the Groves fight. I like George but he set himself up for an almighty fall from grace.

T-K-O

walshb wrote: »

I tend to agree. I would have Calzaghe beating Froch most times. Too fast and busy. Froch does well against the others.

I too would favour some of those guys but not one of them smashes him. In fact, I don't see any of those guys stopping Froch.

I guess everything appeared a little bigger and tougher on ITV and from 3.5 foot.

walshb

T-K-O wrote: »

I too would favour some of those guys but not one of them smashes him. In fact, I don't see any of those guys stopping Froch.

I guess everything appeared a little bigger and tougher on ITV and from 3.5 foot.

Toney eats him alive!;)

But yes, no way he gets smashed vs. Collins or Eubank, and failing a one hit wonder from Benn I think Froch does well.

T-K-O

walshb wrote: »

Toney eats him alive!;)

But yes, no way he gets smashed vs. Collins or Eubank, and failing a one hit wonder from Benn I think Froch does well.

I didn't highlight Toney! :pac::pac:.

walshb

T-K-O wrote: »

I didn't highlight Toney! :pac::pac:.

I knew that. Just thought I'd throw it out there.

Spazdarn

Calzaghe would probably outbox him, but it's almost laughable comparing their résumés. Froch will literally take on anyone, never really liked him before, thought he was a bit desperate, annoying in his chasing of Joe (similar in fact to the way Groves acted) but he's boxed the best... and losing to Andre Ward who's the complete boxer is no shame.

walshb

ToiletFusion wrote: »

Calzaghe would probably outbox him, but it's almost laughable comparing their résumés. Froch will literally take on anyone, never really liked him before, thought he was a bit desperate, annoying in his chasing of Joe (similar in fact to the way Groves acted) but he's boxed the best... and losing to Andre Ward who's the complete boxer is no shame.

How is it laughable comparing their resumes?

megadodge

Tobyglen wrote: »

Froch is a horrible winner. Nothing worse to see a person spit all over a guy after beating him. He's nowhere near the top super middleweights, Eubank, Benn, Calzage, Collins would have smashed him, nevermind Jones, Toney, Leonard, Hearns, Hagler, Duran etc.

He's blown up out of all proportion, his movement is ponderous, reflexes slow. His asset is that he has a good chin and is a tough nut but skill wise he's not up to much and certainly not world class. It says it all that he's practically an unknown in the states and hasn't fought in Vegas.

There have been quite a few uninformed posts on this thread but yours takes the biscuit.

The matchups can be put down to difference of opinion but when you state that a boxer who has won three different WORLD title belts and has a resume of opponents that almost no boxer in the entire sport can match, is "certainly not world class" you're asking to be ridiculed. Using your 'logic', I actually can't think of any boxer that actually is 'world class'.

If Froch was really "practically unknown in the United States", how come HBO televised the Groves fight LIVE in the US?

Despite being an American Andre Ward hasn't fought in Vegas either, so using your 'logic' he's obviously no good either.

By "smashed him" I'm presuming you mean hammering the crap out of him ie. stopping or KOing him. This desite the fact that his chin is widely regarded as one of the very best in the whole of boxing - you even admit it yourself! So, judging by his record and general opinion, nobody, not even all those greats you mention, would "smash him" - he's just too tough.

I too would fancy Calzaghe to clearly outpoint him, but he'd have to fight hard the whole way. Collins and himself would be a complete war. Too hard men taking lumps out of each other. Could go either way. I'd fancy Froch to beat Benn, who never took his power up to super-middle and wasn't exaclty iron-chinned himself. Eubank was just as hard, but more skilful, however he only worked in spurts, taking large chunks of time off in each round. Constant workrate was how Collins beat him and there is a chance Froch could do the same, though I'd fancy Eubank to squeak by him.

I'd fancy Jones, Toney and Hearns to beat him, but Hearn's chin, if hit like the Groves shot the other night, would crumble even quicker. Leonard was never really a super-middle. He weighed in with weights in his pockets against Donny Lalonde, who gave him quite a lot of problems before succumbing. Froch is a hell of a lot better than Lalonde. Hagler never fought at super-middle and Duran only fought there when he was in his 40's, so I don't know how they even enter the conversation.

It's ok to not like a boxer's personality, but you'd be better off not writing anything about their quality or achievments when you very obviously let your emotions cloud your judgment.

walshb

I think Froch would be a bit big for Collins. Bit too strong as well. Froch is a big SMW. Benn and Collins and Eubank were middles who moved up.

Just reading over the list. Duran? WTF?

T-K-O

ToiletFusion wrote: »

Calzaghe would probably outbox him, but it's almost laughable comparing their résumés. Froch will literally take on anyone, never really liked him before, thought he was a bit desperate, annoying in his chasing of Joe (similar in fact to the way Groves acted) but he's boxed the best... and losing to Andre Ward who's the complete boxer is no shame.

This is boxing.

Collins did it to Joe, Joe to Froch, Froch to Degale. In the cold light of day you cannot blame an ageing champion for wanting to cash out.

Tobyglen

T-K-O wrote: »

Tripe, pure Tripe.

Pointless post,at least attempt a debate instead of acting like a child.

Tobyglen

megadodge wrote: »

There have been quite a few uninformed posts on this thread but yours takes the biscuit.

The matchups can be put down to difference of opinion but when you state that a boxer who has won three different WORLD title belts and has a resume of opponents that almost no boxer in the entire sport can match, is "certainly not world class" you're asking to be ridiculed. Using your 'logic', I actually can't think of any boxer that actually is 'world class'.

If Froch was really "practically unknown in the United States", how come HBO televised the Groves fight LIVE in the US?

Despite being an American Andre Ward hasn't fought in Vegas either, so using your 'logic' he's obviously no good either.

By "smashed him" I'm presuming you mean hammering the crap out of him ie. stopping or KOing him. This desite the fact that his chin is widely regarded as one of the very best in the whole of boxing - you even admit it yourself! So, judging by his record and general opinion, nobody, not even all those greats you mention, would "smash him" - he's just too tough.

I too would fancy Calzaghe to clearly outpoint him, but he'd have to fight hard the whole way. Collins and himself would be a complete war. Too hard men taking lumps out of each other. Could go either way. I'd fancy Froch to beat Benn, who never took his power up to super-middle and wasn't exaclty iron-chinned himself. Eubank was just as hard, but more skilful, however he only worked in spurts, taking large chunks of time off in each round. Constant workrate was how Collins beat him and there is a chance Froch could do the same, though I'd fancy Eubank to squeak by him.

I'd fancy Jones, Toney and Hearns to beat him, but Hearn's chin, if hit like the Groves shot the other night, would crumble even quicker. Leonard was never really a super-middle. He weighed in with weights in his pockets against Donny Lalonde, who gave him quite a lot of problems before succumbing. Froch is a hell of a lot better than Lalonde. Hagler never fought at super-middle and Duran only fought there when he was in his 40's, so I don't know how they even enter the conversation.

It's ok to not like a boxer's personality, but you'd be better off not writing anything about their quality or achievments when you very obviously let your emotions cloud your judgment.

Who many world championship belts are they now? Even our own Bernard Dunne won a world title. Froch has never in his lifetime been the best in this division, not even close.

I think you're buying into the Sky hype a lot. Fair enough I might be overboard with Eubank, Benn & Collins but I still feel they would have taking him. They had some savage wars between them, I include McClennan, Watson etc. In their Peak they all take Froch who I believe is overhyped. The standard in this super middleweight division is non existent at the moment.

Froch wouldn't have layed a glove on Hearns.

T-K-O

Tobyglen wrote: »

Pointless post,at least attempt a debate instead of acting like a child.

There is nothing to debate.

T-K-O

Tobyglen wrote: »

Who many world championship belts are they now? Even our own Bernard Dunne won a world title. Froch has never in his lifetime been the best in this division, not even close.

I think you're buying into the Sky hype a lot. Fair enough I might be overboard with Eubank, Benn & Collins but I still feel they would have taking him. They had some savage wars between them, I include McClennan, Watson etc. In their Peak they all take Froch who I believe is overhyped. The standard in this super middleweight division is non existent at the moment.

Froch wouldn't have layed a glove on Hearns.

O.M.G - I'm scarlet for ya.

Spazdarn

walshb wrote: »

How is it laughable comparing their resumes?

Joe hadn't faced half as many tough opponents as Froch has. The two biggest names were well into their 40's by the time he faced them, and well beyond their prime.

Lucy and Harry

https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/C7AD0852271084639779745935360_29af24acb52.0.3.5481579876202495062.mp4?versionId=RQx0aDdR_GN7t_wNCn0nddPywR.K30Mp

Tobyglen

T-K-O wrote: »

I too would favour some of those guys but not one of them smashes him. In fact, I don't see any of those guys stopping Froch.

Rubbish, A typical Sky Sports lovechild.

Spazdarn

T-K-O wrote: »

This is boxing.

Collins did it to Joe, Joe to Froch, Froch to Degale. In the cold light of day you cannot blame an ageing champion for wanting to cash out.

I'm well aware of them, you see it every time, but Froch's pursuit I found a bit desperate that's all.

Anonamoose

Joe all the way

Spazdarn

Tobyglen wrote: »

Rubbish, A typical Sky Sports lovechild.

Froch is pretty tough, he might get outboxed by some of those guys but he's got a good chin, don't see him getting KO'ed all that easily.

Tobyglen

T-K-O wrote: »

O.M.G - I'm scarlet for ya.

I think I'm okay, I'd be a tad more embarrassed about someone using acronyms like O.M.G.

Lucy and Harry

Crotch is on SKY now RINGSIDE..I mean Froch

Tobyglen

ToiletFusion wrote: »

Froch is pretty tough, he might get outboxed by some of those guys but he's got a good chin, don't see him getting KO'ed all that easily.

Roy Jones would have smashed him. Calzaghe would have KO'ed him aswell-big gulf between Joe and Froch. No way Groves would have got so close to Calzaghe, Groves got very close to KO Froch in the first fight and he's not known to be a powerful puncher.