No management company in estate. How bad can it be?

ABajaninCork

jetfiremuck wrote: »

Hasn't happened yet,,,,

Are you serious?? The sewage WILL back up. Make no mistake about that. When that will be, nobody knows. And if I were the OP, I wouldn't be mug enough to buy and find out! Something he's been told over and over.

The_Conductor

ABajaninCork wrote: »

The sewage WILL back up. Make no mistake about that. When that will be, nobody knows.

From experience- it'll probably backup around 2AM on the coldest night of the year- or better still- just before lunchtime on Christmas Day. You'd be amazed at how these things have a knack for happening at the worst possible times. Good luck finding help at these times- or face the inevitable- toilets at the inlaws for the next few days.......

Seriously OP- just how likely do you think it is that the government or the council is going to step in and install your pump? A shake of the magic money tree perhaps?

This is a serious issue- and I don't comprehend how you're not viewing it as a deal breaker.

Wendolene

mrwhite2 wrote: »

Thanks for all the comments. I am not stupid enough to dive in hense asking around. Situation is crazy found out estate beside is the same and it was built by same builder 12 years ago and still has no management company. Lots of unanswered questions.
Why did the council grant planning for a second phase before first finished? Are they not negligent!

OP, negligence would have to be established by a court ... and that means interested parties (you? other residents?) taking a case against the CoCo ... and that means lots of time and money expended just to pursue the case with no guarantee that a court would actually find in your favour.

No poster to this thread has (so far) claimed legal expertise (and I certainly don't), so in truth we cannot answer that question for you. Only a court can ... if you're prepared to follow up on it.

mrwhite2 wrote: »

I found out that the council are happy as things are.They know about sewage problem but as it leaks away into local streams its not visible. They told residents if you report it we will sue you.

Really? No, really? OP, on what basis is the CoCo going to sue anyone? For reporting what exactly to whom exactly? Who, from the CoCo, made that threat, and to whom?

I must say I'm very sceptical that a CoCo would make such a threat. Is that a bit of "he said that she said that they might ..."? Did you witness / receive this threat yourself?

mrwhite2 wrote: »

I guess they don't want to get in a battle as politically unpopular and will bring up issues about their planning such as in priory hall case.

Not wanting a battle is the default position of anyone who knows they're not under any obligation to go into battle. Unless an obligation is established, the CoCo will maintain their position ... simply because they can. It ain't their problem until it's made to be their problem ... and the wishful thinking brigade won't achieve that.

mrwhite2 wrote: »

The council are happy at moment as no fuss and residents are happy as no visible problems and as no management company no fees. Only unhappy people are those wishing to buy or sell.

So, either do something concrete / meaningful to alter the CoCo's position, or walk away. The choice is that simple. Exercising the former option is not. Exercising the latter is ... but you must think with your head, not your heart.

camphor

You said in you third post that some of those who bought in early in the estate are in negative equity. If they are in negative equity how could they possibly have paid cash?


This question hasn't been answered after a month. I wonder why?

Scrag

Keep renting or walk away. You don;t have a problem till you have a problem. Check if the Council are holding a bond on this estate to ensure it is finished to their satisfaction

Grolschevik

camphor wrote: »

If they are in negative equity how could they possibly have paid cash?

Lazy or ill-informed shorthand for the houses being worth less now than what was paid for them, perhaps?

camphor

Grolschevik wrote: »

Lazy or ill-informed shorthand for the houses being worth less now than what was paid for them, perhaps?

If they were bought for cash they would never be in negative equity.
Why has the o/p not explained himself by now?

jetfiremuck

Op. Get a plumber out to give an estimate ffs. If its a reasonable repair id go ahead. Too many chicken littles around.

ABajaninCork

jetfiremuck wrote: »

Op. Get a plumber out to give an estimate ffs. If its a reasonable repair id go ahead. Too many chicken littles around.

You really haven't been paying attention, have you? It's not a job for a plumber. We're talking about a sewage pipe and tank for an entire estate. Engineers and surveyors are needed. And it won't be cheap. Therefore Joe the Plumber won't be necessary...

jetfiremuck

ABajaninCork wrote: »

You really haven't been paying attention, have you? It's not a job for a plumber. We're talking about a sewage pipe and tank for an entire estate. Engineers and surveyors are needed. And it won't be cheap. Therefore Joe the Plumber won't be necessary...

Its not the internal drivetrain of a submarine. Its a sewage pump.

ABajaninCork

Righto. You toddle off and ask a plumber then. I can't wait for the roars of laughter...

mrwhite2

Sorry my mistake it's not technically negative equity. What I meant is the house is worth a lot less than they paid of course It's not negative equity if no morgage but I guess it feels similar

mrwhite2

Having done more research on this I am more confused and have found this is a huge issue. Biggest confusion I have found is that under planning laws if a majority of residents vote to have the estate taking in charge then the council are obliged to do so. There must be a catch because why wouldn't all estates with a bust developer not simply just vote to get the council to take in charge.

sdanseo

mrwhite2 wrote: »

Looking at buying a house in an estate with no management company. Solicitor doesn't like it. There is some site issues but I can live with no street lights etc. Main problem is sewage pump doesn't work however it does run away. Technically the resident could be liable for the work to fix the pump but they all say how can they enforce payment.
I have stalled on sale waiting to see what happens, ie will it get sorted out as people do want to start a management company. I have an attachment to the area and there is a lack of other homes available for my new family. A friend bought one and is loving it as it really is a nice area. All the other residents seem to think the council or someone will eventually fix the problems
Am I over cautious ?

Don't walk away. Run, in the opposite direction, for about a mile.

MouseTail

mrwhite2 wrote: »

Having done more research on this I am more confused and have found this is a huge issue. Biggest confusion I have found is that under planning laws if a majority of residents vote to have the estate taking in charge then the council are obliged to do so. There must be a catch because why wouldn't all estates with a bust developer not simply just vote to get the council to take in charge.

I am not aware of such legislation, it would seem unlikely. Can you post a link?

mrwhite2

I am no expert in this but it seems if a majority request it the council is obliged to take the estate in charge.



Section 180 of the 2000 Planning Act provided that where estates have not been completed to the satisfaction of the planning authority and enforcement proceedings have not been commenced within the relevant period, the planning authority must, if requested to do so by the majority of the residents of the estate, initiate the procedures for taking the estate in charge. A further provision has been added in the 2010 Act to provide that a planning authority may take in charge an unfinished estate, at the request of the owners of the housing units, at any time after the expiration of the planning permission, in situations where enforcement actions have commenced or where the planning authority consider that enforcement action will not result in the satisfactory completion of the estate by the developer. Planning authorities have also been empowered to take in charge part of an estate or some, but not all, of the facilities in an estate.

The decision as whether to take an estate is taken in charge is ultimately one for the elected members of a local authority.

Boom__Boom

mrwhite2 wrote: »

I am no expert in this but it seems if a majority request it the council is obliged to take the estate in charge.



Section 180 of the 2000 Planning Act provided that where estates have not been completed to the satisfaction of the planning authority and enforcement proceedings have not been commenced within the relevant period, the planning authority must, if requested to do so by the majority of the residents of the estate, initiate the procedures for taking the estate in charge. A further provision has been added in the 2010 Act to provide that a planning authority may take in charge an unfinished estate, at the request of the owners of the housing units, at any time after the expiration of the planning permission, in situations where enforcement actions have commenced or where the planning authority consider that enforcement action will not result in the satisfactory completion of the estate by the developer. Planning authorities have also been empowered to take in charge part of an estate or some, but not all, of the facilities in an estate.

The decision as whether to take an estate is taken in charge is ultimately one for the elected members of a local authority.

Did you ask your solicitor about this?

You know the actual legal expert. Someone who actually has some knowledge of these acts and how they are have been applied in the real world up until now. It's one thing to have a law on the books; it's a whole different kettle of fish when it comes to the laws been actually applied.

Its clear from the small portion you posted, that it's not simply a case of a majority of the owners voting to be taken into council responsibility that there are other considerations too.

What you posted looks like a very brief summary of the relevant legislation.

You mentioned that

Already a recent court case forced local county council to take an estate in charge.

That would seem to be the first place to start. Any idea on how long it took from when the case was started to when the judgement was delivered. Was it the same county council as in your case? The fact that it took a court case to force the county council to take responsibility should give you an indication of how willing county councils are to take responsibility for an estate. Odds are that the situation was very different from the situation in your case.

Lawyers don't want hassle so easy to say no.

Messy, hassle legal situations like this are dream money-making situations for lawyers.

Getting involved in potential court cases against government institutions is a dream as they will 1) tend to drag out court cases as long as possible 2) have endless pockets in that it is actual taxpayers who end up footing the bill so you will have a adversary with effectively an unlimited legal budget especially compared to suing a small company or an individual (unless they are phenomenally wealthy)

Sounds like you got lucky and got a decent legal representative; a dodgier legal expert could easily have said - well if we take the local authority to court that would force them to take responsibility and the odds are costs would get awarded against the council. 5 years down the track and thousands of euros later in legal fees, you'd be the one regretting all the hassle, not the lawyer who will have collected a nice little fortune in legal fees.

To get the situation resolved is going to cost time and money and is going to involved significant stress.

How much of both are you willing to invest and how much of an appetite have you for extra stress especially when it involves your dwelling place?

The fact that a serious number of the owners seem to have very little willingness in setting up a management company and have adopted a head in the sand approach says that organising anything would be a massive issue. Sounds like a number would have serious problems with anyone taking any action that would upset the current apple cart of willful ignorance.

To me this falls into the category of borrowing trouble in the hope that you end up with a bargain. You don't know when or how long it will take to get the whole situation gets resolved. Do you really want to willingly take on that hassle and stress, especially when it relates to your place of residence?

mrwhite2

Update on this is I pulled back from the sale however others aren't. Another house sold and this guy was an arctiect who said he got the same legal advise but that it was worth the gamble. The local authority have made such a mess of the whole sewage network here that even the mains isn't running . They employ a truck every month or so to empty the mains and drive the sewage to the treatment plant. Crazy but true. The whole area is so bad the council won't enforce planning violations as it will unearth their in competence

The_Conductor

What a mess.
Regardless of the fact that others have bought there- I genuinely think you had a close escape.

mrwhite2

Maybe just so sick of the way things work here it makes me want to leave the country. I have young kids and have decent business and yet am stuck renting. Hard watching others setup family homes which u have walked away from. I think the property market is so artificial at the moment. People talk about supply problems only in Dublin but it's worse here. At least in Dublin you can move to another area within commuting distance. Here all the property is dodgy cheap apartments or houses in estates with no management companies or houses that aver so over priced as the vendor says that is what they owe the bank. I live near people who haven't paid their mortgage in over 4 years. That's some saving in rent! At this rate my kids will be grown up before the property market is sorted.

I fully understand why people have jumped at houses that have no management company's as the rental sector is full of pitfalls and no security.