Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/2014

Paulegend

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Lol. Point proven.

Also double lol at comparing the skillset of Carroll and Berba.

yea how dare me strong in the air and good with their feet not at all similar

SlickRic

Mr Alan wrote: »

Exactly. That's kind of my point.

It's possible West Ham will get top 10.

It's possible we'll dis-improve on last seasons 7th place finish.

but it's so, so pessimistic. that's kinda my point. it gives little or no credit to the current squad.

it would take Liverpool being plain awful and West Ham being plain awesome for them to finish above us.

Will I Amnt

Paulegend wrote: »

link = fact he was linked....................................... what is your first language??

I refer you to my original post. Linked means nothing these days.

RasTa

Paulegend wrote: »

link = fact he was linked....................................... what is your first language??

Less of the attitude.

That statement is as bad as your maths lesson so not going to bother

Will I Amnt

Paulegend wrote: »

yea how dare me strong in the air and good with their feet not at all similar

I give up

Paulegend

Will I Amnt wrote: »

I refer you to my original post. Linked means nothing these days.

then what are you arguing exactly??

Paulegend

RasTa wrote: »

Less of the attitude.

That statement is as bad as your maths lesson so not going to bother

your the only one with the attitude. your being boring

whatawaster

Mr Alan wrote: »

We finished 7th last season.

I'm of the opinion our squad has not been strengthened & may likely be, at this moment in time, weaker than last year. Our best player also wants out & will likely be gone either in the next few weeks or in Jan.

Lets say for argument sake we're level with where we were last season squad wise. If we lose Suarez/Gerrard for any considerable time this season, a dis-improvement is quite likely IMO.

Meanwhile West Ham have a manager with a history of getting average teams to over achieve in the PL. He has had some solid investment in their team in both transfer fees & wages this summer.

Is it possible that Big Sam could bring West Ham to top 10 in the PL? Yes, IMO it is. Is it possible a Liverpool side that was 7th last season could dis-improve this season? Yes, IMO it is.

So no, in not kidding. I'm not saying its incredibly likely, just that it's possible.

We finished 12 points ahead of 8th place last season and 15 points ahead of West Ham.

For every possible reason you give for us getting worse this season, there is a counter argument, which you are ignoring, as to how we might improve.

- We have a young squad and you generally see more year on year improvement from young players. I'd expect more from Henderson, Allen, Borini, Sterling, Coutinho, Sturridge, Wisdom
- Lucas is fit
- Coutinho and Sturridge here for full season, as compared to half of last season
- Haven't really lost any real impact players from our squad. The impacts of Reina, Carroll, Shelvey, Downing and Spearing last
- Gerrard said it took 6 months for the squad to get used to the manager's style of play. Should be no such bedding in period this season.

Will I Amnt

Paulegend wrote: »

then what are you arguing exactly??

That just because you seen Carroll linked with United on goal.com means nothing and isn't worth mentioning in a post to big him up.
If you don't get that there's really not much point replying to this.

whatawaster

Mr Alan wrote: »

It's possible we'll dis-improve on last seasons 7th place finish.

Anything's possible. The gap between 7th and 8th was the biggest gap in the premier league last season.

Mr Alan

I didn't say it'd happen, just that it'd hardly be the biggest surprise in the history of the PL for it to happen.

Paulegend

Will I Amnt wrote: »

That just because you seen Carroll linked with United on goal.com means nothing and isn't worth mentioning in a post to big him up.
If you don't get that there's really not much point replying to this.

im just stating facts. just like veron forlan pique and cryuff just because they where rubish for ye doesnt mean they are not top class talent........................................... the fact that you dont understand that says more abouyt the fact this isnt going to be a real conversation

I am pie

Did I just read that Carroll was a good signing!!

Carroll is a lumpen donkey who proved that with his leaden footed performances for Liverpool and England. He has a poor touch, seems to have a fondness for some off pitch antics and will only ever thrive in a team playing basic limited football at the mid to lower table position. It is terrible indication of where English coaching is at and where Hodgson is at as a caoch that he plays for England. He is approaching 70 premier league games with 13 fckin goals! That is a miserable return for a man who has commanded 50m (fifty fckin million!) quid worth of transfer fees. He will become the stuff of legend for all the wrong reasons.

He was not every considered by United or any other club heading in the direction of the top of the table despite whatever fantasy nonsense goal.com dared publish.

Will I Amnt

Paulegend wrote: »

im just stating facts.

Trust me. You're not.

Kess73

5starpool wrote: »

We should try and have more games against them before big cup matches. That league match in Feb was the easiest I've ever seen Liverpool win I'd say, and I've seen us score 5+ a few times over the years.

What about the five nil against Forest in 1988?


Don't think I will ever see as one sided a game again in my lifetime, and it was one where the five nil scoreline actually flattered what was then a good Forest side (the came third that season).

We just tore them apart and nothing they tried was able to make that Liverpool team take a backwards step.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z46vRy-SHFc

jcsoulinger

I think we should start a thread with only positive posts allowed, sick of this pessimism.

Mr Alan

SlickRic wrote: »

but it's so, so pessimistic.

I am pessimistic about this season. You're even starting to come round to the opinion yourself but this window is shaping up to be a very poor one with very little time left to dramatically improve the situation IMO.

SlickRic wrote:

that's kinda my point. it gives little or no credit to the current squad.

They're not hugely deserving of credit?!

SlickRic wrote:

it would take Liverpool being plain awful and West Ham being plain awesome for them to finish above us.

I agree it would involve us under achieving and them over achieving. But I disagree with the extremes you seem to think would be neacessary. I think if West Ham had a very good season & we had a poor one, there wouldn't be much between the sides IMO.

Mr Alan

jcsoulinger wrote: »

I think we should start a thread with only positive posts allowed, sick of this pessimism.

I think that's one of the most pathetic things I've ever read on here. But it does highlight the delusion some people seem to want to live in regarding the current situation at the club.

I am pie

Kess73 wrote: »

What about the five nil against Forest in 1988?


Don't think I will ever see as one sided a game again in my lifetime, and it was one where the five nil scoreline actually flattered what was then a good Forest side (the came third that season).

We just tore them apart and nothing they tried was able to make that Liverpool team take a backwards step.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z46vRy-SHFc

The crystal palace massacre (9-0) was the one time I remember watching Liverpool and wishing they would have a bit of mercy. Can't remember seeing a bigger gulf between two sides.

It wasn't a league game tho.

Morzadec

whatawaster wrote: »

We finished 12 points ahead of 8th place last season and 15 points ahead of West Ham.

For every possible reason you give for us getting worse this season, there is a counter argument, which you are ignoring, as to how we might improve.

- We have a young squad and you generally see more year on year improvement from young players. I'd expect more from Henderson, Allen, Borini, Sterling, Coutinho, Sturridge, Wisdom
- Lucas is fit
- Coutinho and Sturridge here for full season, as compared to half of last season
- Haven't really lost any real impact players from our squad. The impacts of Reina, Carroll, Shelvey, Downing and Spearing last
- Gerrard said it took 6 months for the squad to get used to the manager's style of play. Should be no such bedding in period this season.

This is the key one imo. Not just first XI players but arguably 2 of our key first teamers.

People saying we haven't improved our squad - that's 2 players we didn't have for a whole half of last season!

I'm not being optimistic, not saying we'll get CL, but cmon we should really be making at least a small improvement on our points tally from last season

gimli2112

Kess73 wrote: »

What about the five nil against Forest in 1988?


Don't think I will ever see as one sided a game again in my lifetime, and it was one where the five nil scoreline actually flattered what was then a good Forest side (the came third that season).

We just tore them apart and nothing they tried was able to make that Liverpool team take a backwards step.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z46vRy-SHFc

I might be wrong but I think Forest were second when we played that game. Unblieveable game

5starpool

Kess73 wrote: »

What about the five nil against Forest in 1988?


Don't think I will ever see as one sided a game again in my lifetime, and it was one where the five nil scoreline actually flattered what was then a good Forest side (the came third that season).

We just tore them apart and nothing they tried was able to make that Liverpool team take a backwards step.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z46vRy-SHFc

I meant games I was at, but should have clarified, sorry.

I obviously wasn't at the game above, but do remember it, and had watched it several times since on The Mighty Reds video (season summary vid) that I had for years (still have actually, but no vcr).

We were awesome that game, and that season. My favourite bit was Steve McMahon stopping the ball going out of play, catching himself on the hoardings, skipping past a challenge, playing it to Beardsley (I think) who put it to the back post for Aldo to slide in and score. As the classic wuote goes, Platini says it was the most complete performance he had ever seen from a football team.

Makes me sad how much of a different universe that team is to our recent ones.

wonderfullife

5starpool wrote: »

I reckon Swansea will have a disappointing season this one, despite them being stronger in theory than last year. My waters, they tell me these things. Not relegations, but below 10th.

Maybe you shoulda told Malmo that before they demolished them!! Might have given them a boost!

Laudrup strikes me as pure class and i actually see no reason he won't improve them again. This won't be a Blackpool-esque fall.

Turtyturd

whatawaster wrote: »

This is the strongest top 5 in the history of the premier league, no doubt.

At the moment, Arsenal look the 5th strongest team in the league and they are plenty stronger than us.

6th should be our minimum aim.
5th would be a very good season, it would see us certainly in amongst Spurs/Arsenal to the very end.
4th would be a great season

The only reason sixth should be seen as an aim is because of the failings of the club. As you said arsenal are easily the weakest of the top teams, and this summer was a chance to make up ground on them but thus far the club have spectacularly failed to do that.

If we get sixth either the owners/manager have to take the blame.

Paulegend

peter crouch took 19 game sto score for us yet he was condsidered a cult favourite for us.

if messi or ronaldo played at stoke im sure tehy would score maybe 20 goals in the league but playing for someone like arsneal they would double that. my meaning is that different tactics suits different styles

just because big andy didnt suit our style doesnt make him a crap player. he will be great for west ham where he scored something like 7 in 23 (i in just over 3) which is a great return for a target man


as i stated he was linked and that is a fact. being linked is being linked. it doesnt matter that an appraoch wasnt made. it was a fact we where in for ronaldo under houllier and alves under rafa but just because alot of the links are goal.com does that mean we wherent linked????

stating things such as "he was never considered by teams like that" is teh exact same as saying "he was" so to undermine what im saying by saying equally non factual things is just as sad

Kess73

5starpool wrote: »

I meant games I was at, but should have clarified, sorry.

I obviously wasn't at the game above, but do remember it, and had watched it several times since on The Mighty Reds video (season summary vid) that I had for years (still have actually, but no vcr).

We were awesome that game, and that season. My favourite bit was Steve McMahon stopping the ball going out of play, catching himself on the hoardings, skipping past a challenge, playing it to Beardsley (I think) who put it to the back post for Aldo to slide in and score. As the classic wuote goes, Platini says it was the most complete performance he had ever seen from a football team.

Makes me sad how much of a different universe that team is to our recent ones.

Yeah that was against a bloody good Arsenal team. Think it was Adams that was coming out to get the ball after McMahon stopped it. Adams was defo not expecting McMahon to push himself off the hoardings that quickly

5starpool

I am pie wrote: »

The crystal palace massacre (9-0) was the one time I remember watching Liverpool and wishing they would have a bit of mercy. Can't remember seeing a bigger gulf between two sides.

It wasn't a league game tho.

That was a league game. I didn't see that match though, but did listen on radio 5 I think. That was the same season we lost 4-3 to Palace in the cup semis in a massive upset. If we had won that game and got to the final vs utd, we might have prevented the next 20+ years of watching Ferguson if we had won considering it has been widely said that winning the cup that year saved his job.

Imagine!

Will I Amnt

Paulegend wrote: »

peter crouch took 19 game sto score for us yet he was condsidered a cult favourite for us.

if messi or ronaldo played at stoke im sure tehy would score maybe 20 goals in the league but playing for someone like arsneal they would double that. my meaning is that different tactics suits different styles

just because big andy didnt suit our style doesnt make him a crap player. he will be great for west ham where he scored something like 7 in 23 (i in just over 3) which is a great return for a target man


as i stated he was linked and that is a fact. being linked is being linked. it doesnt matter that an appraoch wasnt made. it was a fact we where in for ronaldo under houllier and alves under rafa but just because alot of the links are goal.com does that mean we wherent linked????

stating things such as "he was never considered by teams like that" is teh exact same as saying "he was" so to undermine what im saying by saying equally non factual things is just as sad

Amazing. I'm out, bye.

whatawaster

Turtyturd wrote: »

The only reason sixth should be seen as an aim is because of the failings of the club. As you said arsenal are easily the weakest of the top teams, and this summer was a chance to make up ground on them but thus far the club have spectacularly failed to do that.

If we get sixth either the owners/manager have to take the blame.

Minimum aim.

If we don't leapfrog Everton it would be a desperately disappointing season.

If we finish 6th, but maintain contact with the top 4 for much of the season and improve our points tally to the mid-late 60's, then imo it will have been at least a season of improvement, and tangible improvement.

If we finish 6th on 50 points then it would be a bad season.

Turtyturd

5starpool wrote: »

That was a league game. I didn't see that match though, but did listen on radio 5 I think. That was the same season we lost 4-3 to Palace in the cup semis in a massive upset. If we had won that game and got to the final vs utd, we might have prevented the next 20+ years of watching Ferguson if we had won considering it has been widely said that winning the cup that year saved his job.

Imagine!

Way to make one of my worst childhood memories even worse.:D

I am pie

Turtyturd wrote: »

The only reason sixth should be seen as an aim is because of the failings of the club. As you said arsenal are easily the weakest of the top teams, and this summer was a chance to make up ground on them but thus far the club have spectacularly failed to do that.

If we get sixth either the owners/manager have to take the blame.

Arsenal finished 3 places above us. Silly or naive to think we are going to leap over them in a season.

Our previous top 4 finishes were achieved in a radically different context. No City, Chelsea only beginning to establish themselves, Arsenal did not have the money they had now, Spurs were nowhere near the side they are now. Realistically it was an accepted minimum performance because of the teams around us, yes we should still be at that level but if we are looking to spread blame we should go back as far as the late 80s early 90s when the stadium wasn't developed and the club stood still while Utd caught fire.

Lumping the blame at the door of the manager who has arrived last year to attempt to reverse the decline is symptomatic of the modern fan, it is hatefully naive. Same with the wishing that owners will just shower cash and not build a sound structure.

It all takes time, and if you haven't the patience for it then more fool you. I feel the club is going in the right direction and will be patient in waiting for them to correct. Just because we don't spunk 20m on some flavour of the month footballer won't change my opinion on that.

Kess73

And for those who were not around for the 87/88 season, or who would just like to refresh some old memories.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbyubiCh_UY

And to give an idea of how Liverpool dominated that season, here is the Match Of The Day shortlist of ten goals for the goalof the season award.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz92Ty7EyMM

T-K-O

I am pie wrote: »

Arsenal finished 3 places above us. Silly or naive to think we are going to leap over them in a season.

Our previous top 4 finishes were achieved in a radically different context. No City, Chelsea only beginning to establish themselves, Arsenal did not have the money they had now, Spurs were nowhere near the side they are now. Realistically it was an accepted minimum performance because of the teams around us, yes we should still be at that level but if we are looking to spread blame we should go back as far as the late 80s early 90s when the stadium wasn't developed and the club stood still while Utd caught fire.

Lumping the blame at the door of the manager who has arrived last year to attempt to reverse the decline is symptomatic of the modern fan, it is hatefully naive. Same with the wishing that owners will just shower cash and not build a sound structure.

It all takes time, and if you haven't the patience for it then more fool you. I feel the club is going in the right direction and will be patient in waiting for them to correct. Just because we don't spunk 20m on some flavour of the month footballer won't change my opinion on that.

I agree with a lot of this - however I'm beginning to worry the owners are all spunked out.

I am pie

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Amazing. I'm out, bye.

Linky link linked.

Absolutely astounding.

He had me at "great return for a target man"

1 goal every 7 appearances.

opr

West Ham also seemed to have pulled Ravel Morrison's careers somewhat from the fire. Scored a couple and assisted a couple in pre-season for them. Said when he left United he was the among the most talented kids I ever watched in youth football. If West Ham can get him playing regularly and staying out of trouble he could be great for them this season.

Opr

kfallon

Turtyturd wrote: »

Way to make one of my worst childhood memories even worse.:D

Arsenal in '89 was def the worst childhood memory! I couldn't stop crying for about an hour after it.

I've hated Pardew ever since that Cup semi final. In the 2 semi finals that day there was 13 goals, Oldham and Utd drawing 3-3 in the other semi, that was some value for the neutrals

If I remember correctly we beat Palace 9-0 at home in the league on a Tuesday night and the following Saturday we drew 0-0 with Norwich at Anfield cos I remember thinking to meself, "if we had just kept one goal in reserve for Saturday"

Turtyturd

whatawaster wrote: »

Minimum aim.

If we don't leapfrog Everton it would be a desperately disappointing season.

If we finish 6th, but maintain contact with the top 4 for much of the season and improve our points tally to the mid-late 60's, then imo it will have been at least a season of improvement, and tangible improvement.

If we finish 6th on 50 points then it would be a bad season.

I honestly think scenario A would be as much a failing on their behalf, given that the need for first team signings who would close that gap was identified by 'The Rodgers' a long time ago and we are no closer to seeing any.....despite the money being there ;).

mada999

I am pie wrote: »

Arsenal finished 3 places above us. Silly or naive to think we are going to leap over them in a season.

Our previous top 4 finishes were achieved in a radically different context. No City, Chelsea only beginning to establish themselves, Arsenal did not have the money they had now, Spurs were nowhere near the side they are now. Realistically it was an accepted minimum performance because of the teams around us, yes we should still be at that level but if we are looking to spread blame we should go back as far as the late 80s early 90s when the stadium wasn't developed and the club stood still while Utd caught fire.

Lumping the blame at the door of the manager who has arrived last year to attempt to reverse the decline is symptomatic of the modern fan, it is hatefully naive. Same with the wishing that owners will just shower cash and not build a sound structure.

It all takes time, and if you haven't the patience for it then more fool you. I feel the club is going in the right direction and will be patient in waiting for them to correct. Just because we don't spunk 20m on some flavour of the month footballer won't change my opinion on that.

great post

Paulegend

I am pie wrote: »

Linky link linked.

Absolutely astounding.

He had me at "great return for a target man"

1 goal every 7 appearances.

i in 3 not 1 in 7

as stated last season for west ham he scored 7 in 23

how is that 1 in 7??????

can you not read???

Yurt

I can't believe there's people on this who think we actually have a weaker squad than last season.Just remember this time last season we had to start games with a front three of Enrique Suarez and Cole/a 17 year old Sterling.We started Jonjo Shelvey against united.

Our team was so shallow in comparison to what it is now and our squad players shouldn't have been anywhere near the squad due to both quality or age.Since this time last year we have added Sturridge,Coutinho,Aspas,Alberto,Mignolet,and Kolo Toure.The only players (so far) that we've lost that will actually effect us would be Carragher and Downing (to a lesser much lesser extent).

Look at Reina last season ? It was mistake after mistake.He cost us goals and in some cases points against Arsenal,Man City,Hearts,Norwich,Everton,Man City again to name a few of the top off my head.I said this time last year after the game against Hearts that we needed a new goalkeeper and that too many people on here were letting there love for the man blind them over his football ability.If Mignolet plays like last year that should add at least 5 points to our tally.

Couthino,Sturridge and Aspas will add bags of goals to the team and hopefully allow us to finally win them games we dominate and draw 0-0.

Even if we lose Suarez which is unlikely at this stage i still think we have a better team than last year.Is it good enough for top 4 ? Probably not.Have we spent enough this summer? Definitely not.

I understand the negativity about not spending money.But please don't say we're in a worse position than last year!

recylingbin

It has to be said that Beardsley was one of the finest players of his generation. I loved that ugly little hobbit.

KingJamsie

I hope hendo isn't next...

Francie Barrett

The transfer window has 3 weeks left and Rodgers has said we're still looking at bringing in a defender and an attacker. The amount of panic on this forum is unreal. I don't know what you folks would do if you were United/Arsenal supporters - they haven't signed anyone!

Kess73

recylingbin wrote: »

It has to be said that Beardsley was one of the finest players of his generation. I loved that ugly little hobbit.

He really was something special at his peak. In terms of ability and role within the team he was probably the closest we came to matching the man that made the number seven synonymous with his name at Liverpool.

5starpool

Francie Barrett wrote: »

The transfer window has 3 weeks left and Rodgers has said we're still looking at bringing in a defender and an attacker. The amount of panic on this forum is unreal. I don't know what you folks would do if you were United/Arsenal supporters - they haven't signed anyone!

Lots of complaining in there as well. Not as much need to improve though as we have.

kfallon

Francie Barrett wrote: »

The transfer window has 3 weeks left and Rodgers has said we're still looking at bringing in a defender and an attacker. The amount of panic on this forum is unreal. I don't know what you folks would do if you were United/Arsenal supporters - they haven't signed anyone!

Yeah United fans must be wondering what the hell is going on, I mean they only have the same squad who walked the league last year, that's some crisis for them!

Utd and Arsenal were probably happy with their lot last season, a repeat performance and they'd be happy again.

No Liverpool fan should be happy with a repeat of last year's League performance, we need to strengthen, Arsenal and Utd don't necessarily have to.

RainMaker

A lot of people forget it took Fergie over 6 years to build a team that would challenge for the title - and with our current level of investment, it would probably take at least the same!

Along the way in those early years, Fergie also splashed out big money at the time on players who under-performed:
Danny Wallace (at one stage it was suggested Fergie has bought the wrong Wallace brother after Rod went on to win a league title with Leeds!)
Neil Webb
Jim Leighton
And also persisted in using some young players at the time who were not really up to the task - Blackmore, Beardsmore, etc

We can't build a team to challenge for even 4th without a huge investment, if we do get 4th with our current squad it would be a case of over achieving.

Without huge investment, it will take time - not 6 months, not ever a year or 2 - it could take 3 or 4 years of gradually improving the squad and in particular the first team. As others have said, personally I haven't seen much improvement this summer and that makes me worried for the coming season. Call that pessimism or realism, whatever you like, the fact is the most we can realistically hope for this season is qualifying for the Europa League - and if we have any dip in form, get a few injuries, then we could be in danger of another 8th or 9th finish - but that in itself should not be considered a disaster in the grand scheme!

Going back to the Fergie example - how did United finish in his first 6 years in charge?

11th, 2nd, 11th, 13th! 6th, 2nd and eventually won it the year after that...


It take time to build unless you are Chelsea or Man City!

messinkiapina

KingJamsie wrote: »

I hope hendo isn't next...

Probably not this summer, but I can't see him being here in the longer term. He just isn't nearly good enough imo. That photograph is depressing, that one snapshot goes a long way to explaining how we arrived at where we are right now.

murpho999

Kess73 wrote: »

He really was something special at his peak. In terms of ability and role within the team he was probably the closest we came to matching the man that made the number seven synonymous with his name at Liverpool.

That team was fantastic to watch. Should have gone the season unbeaten. Bloody Everton.

Fears were that the club would struggle after Rush departure, but in come Barnes, Houghton, Beardslley and Aldridge.

They were untouchable!

Francie Barrett

kfallon wrote: »

Yeah United fans must be wondering what the hell is going on, I mean they only have the same squad who walked the league last year, that's some crisis for them!

Utd and Arsenal were probably happy with their lot last season, a repeat performance and they'd be happy again.

No Liverpool fan should be happy with a repeat of last year's League performance, we need to strengthen, Arsenal and Utd don't necessarily have to.

United are in a lot more trouble than people realise. Fergie is gone - that by itself it is huge. Also a lot of their stars are ageing and I don't think the younger players have stepped up. Finally, we've seen a lot a few players reject United advances (Thiago, Fabregas) - fringe players (even if they do play for Barca) rejecting a club like United doesn't bode well at all.

As for Arsenal, to say they don't need strengthing is just nutty. If it wasn't for a late surge last season, they would have missed out on top 4. Infact, for the last 3 seasons, they've been threading water when it comes to making the top 4.

Like Brendan says, there is working going on behind the scenes. Let's hope it results in two more players and puts us in a position to make real go for the top 4.