Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/2014

LuckyLloyd

Dickerty wrote: »

I don't. Still questionable at GK, FB and CM (when Wilshere is out, which is often). Good attack in Cazorla, Walcott and Podolski, which he would be a good spearhead for, but they are MILES behind City, Chelsea and United in terms of overall quality.

You think they will go from no trophies in 8 years to serious contenders with one signing, when that signing isn't Messi??

Messi and Ronaldo exist out on their own, but after that you are talking about a group of a handful of players which Suarez is in. Seemed to me last season that they lacked consistency and a bit of individual magic up front. Suarez will give them that.

I haven't mentioned the league and agree that they'll be short there even with Suarez. But flawed teams can win the CL (we proved that!) and Arsenal have had a few tough outs in recent seasons. The addition of Suarez could be a big difference maker for them in that sphere.

Never underestimate what the addition of a 30 goal a season man who does it in big games can do for a side. Would make a huge difference for them imo.

Phoenix Park

spockety wrote: »

I think people are overplaying the argument about the perceived distance between clubs.

Statements such as "if we sell Suarez to Arsenal then it will put them ahead of us for 5 years". Read "GAME OVER MAN, GAME OVER". We're all going to die, etc.

Football is not that black and white, and glory or otherwise can hinge on luck, injuries to a specific player, and mysterious forces which can bind to make a seemingly average group of players a collective bunch of world beaters.

To be honest over a 38 game period I think it's fair to say we'll be miles behind them for the foreseeable future if they sign Suarez. Personally I can't see us finishing above them for years, I wish I could say that's an exaggeration.

Pepe LeFrits

Think benching 11 goal Giroud for 23 goal Suarez would make a huge difference myself.

gosplan

Liam O wrote: »

They finished a handful of points behind Chelsea last season though and not sure how you can call any element of the best defense in the league over the last few months even with a lot of GK problems questionable. Arteta is very underrated for what he did last season and they may look to further strengthen the middle.

Nah he's right. Chelsea have a way better squad and will show it this season IMO.

There's one exception though. I think if Arsenal got Suarez, we'd be comparable to Utd.

They'd have better strength in FW. We destroy them in midfield. CB pairing would depend on how much they can get out of Ferdinand this season. Maybe they sneak it on GK.

mike65

Will Arsenal fly someone out to talk directly I wonder, or does his agent (spits) do all the work for him? Or indeed will Suarez be on a plane by this evening/morning (depending where you are)

LuckyLloyd

spockety wrote: »

I think people are overplaying the argument about the perceived distance between clubs.

Statements such as "if we sell Suarez to Arsenal then it will put them ahead of us for 5 years". Read "GAME OVER MAN, GAME OVER". We're all going to die, etc.

Football is not that black and white, and glory or otherwise can hinge on luck, injuries to a specific player, and mysterious forces which can bind to make a seemingly average group of players a collective bunch of world beaters.

That's fine, but sitting in the 'cross your fingers for all our players having career seasons and all our near rivals suffering rotten luck boat' is a pretty ****ing grim place to be imo. That's where we are at the moment tbh.

hefferboi

gosplan wrote: »

As an Arsenal fan selling RVP to United last year was horrible. We finished just behind them but given that there was 19 points between us I had enough cop on to know we weren't direct rivals and it was a step up for him.

Now there was only 12 points between Liverpool and Arsenal this season but there was also two other teams in the way.

Admittedly Everton might drop off a bit without Moyes but all I see from Spurs is strengthening and improvement.

I really don't get how Liverpool fans see themselves as realistic competitors to Arsenal who have not had to reinvent themselves for the first summer in years and are looking to spend big. Surely Arsenal will improve on their points total from the last couple of seasons.

And I don't see Liverpool's route to fourth spot given that they're relatively standing still this season and the positive chatter is about how good Raheem Sterling might be.

This isn't a dig. I think Rodgers is a good manager and given time will build an excellent team but the key is time. Over a few years, he'll pick up enough good players on the cheap to take Liverpool up to the next level but I can't see it being this year. You just don't have the players.

I can get that you see Arsenal as the weakest of the current top four but you need a collapse from them that's never happened, and we're in better shape going into this season than ages. As well as this you need Everton to stand still or regress and Spurs to fall away despite spending done decent money on improvements. And all this without really adding to your squad and missing your best player for probably up to a quarter of the season in total.

Very good post.

We are some way off arsenal but selling ours and one of the leagues best players to them is idiotic. It'll put us a year or two back where we were because we're losing a world class player and Arsenal are adding one. 4th is the aim and we won't get that anytime soon by selling Suarez to the team we're trying to pass out.

SlickRic

Brendan:

“If Arsenal want the player then they have to produce the value for the player.

There was an offer a few weeks ago of £35million and two weeks later it is now £40million and £1. I don’t think it is anywhere near the value of what he is worth.

It is two-fold really. A player may want to go, but then somebody has to pay the value or worth of that player.”

and also, when asked if Arsenal's bid only meant we only had to inform Suarez.

“Absolutely. That's it. There is nothing more than that.”

Dickerty

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Never underestimate what the addition of a 30 goal a season man who does it in big games can do for a side. Would make a huge difference for them imo.

I don't, but he's one player. I also remember Van Persie scoring 30 season before last, and they came - 3rd, 19 points back from the top 2.

bad2dabone

Dickerty wrote: »

I don't, but he's one player. I also remember Van Persie scoring 30 season before last, and they came - 3rd, 19 points back from the top 2.

since then we added a german international with 107 caps and who will end up as both record goalscorer and cap holder for his county
two Spanish internationals
and france’s top goalscorer and French international striker.
and finished with 3 points more than with RVP.

witnessmenow

I've seen it a couple of times in this thread and the previous one

"I'd be much more gutted of selling Suarez to Arsenal than Torres to Chelsea"

The biggest reason for this isnt that Arsenal aren't far a head of us, its that 50m for Torres was lunacy, he was not the player he was a couple of seasons before, it would be like getting 85M for Suarez in my opinion

LuckyLloyd

Dickerty wrote: »

I don't, but he's one player. I also remember Van Persie scoring 30 season before last, and they came - 3rd, 19 points back from the top 2.

They're a better all round side now than they were then imo. They were hilarious at the back by times that season.

BMJD

Phoenix Park wrote: »

To be honest over a 38 game period I think it's fair to say we'll be miles behind them for the foreseeable future if they sign Suarez.

Don't forget he would be missing for the first 6 games, maybe more over the season. Getting loads of stick on a cold and rainy evening in Stoke could make him do something stupid again

Dickerty

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

They're a better all round side now than they were then imo. They were hilarious at the back by times that season.

As they were at for the first have of last season! They only reached the top 4 (and stayed there) with 6/7 games to go. In early Dec, they lost at home to Swansea and were 10th, and Wenger's job was being talked about as under threat.

Yes, they rallied, but I believe thay are much closer to us and Spurs than they are to the top 3. We started even worse last year, but we had given up Kuyt, Carroll, Bellamy and Maxi and didn't get a striker in, so we lost a huge amount of firepower. We got much of that back in Jan.

I don't want him to go to an English team, but I don't think it will push them that far ahead. You are forgetting - we get to spend that 50M. So maybe we replace him with two players, and we are better for it...

razorblunt

Anyone else thinking Liverpool are stalling while they sort out transfers for replacements? That way they won't run into a "you're bidding £8million for Bechio, give use some of the Suarez money and make it £22m" type shenanigans. Or is it just wishful thinking?

Vicxas

Rodgers now acknowledging the bids. Looks like its getting close to either sh1t or get off the pot time for Suarez.

Dickerty

bad2dabone wrote: »

since then we added a german international with 107 caps and who will end up as both record goalscorer and cap holder for his county
two Spanish internationals
and france’s top goalscorer and French international striker.
and finished with 3 points more than with RVP.

Not arguing against that, just the point that a 30 goal striker automatically makes all the difference.

If it was that easy, how were we so far back!!

qvsr46ofgc792k

BMJD wrote: »

Don't forget he would be missing for the first 6 games, maybe more over the season. Getting loads of stick on a cold and rainy evening in Stoke could make him do something stupid again :)

Or make him show his brilliance like he did against Wigan away Norwich Away Everton Away and so on,,,

When he gets stick imo is when he is at his best!

Vanolder

razorblunt wrote: »

Anyone else thinking Liverpool are stalling while they sort out transfers for replacements? That way they won't run into a "you're bidding £8million for Bechio, give use some of the Suarez money and make it £22m" type shenanigans. Or is it just wishful thinking?

Something like this. Rodgers going through the motions saying what the fans want to hear, what else can he do? Suarez holds all the cards essentially... Let's just hope it's a decent price and a couple of quality players are brought in.

Dickerty

Vicxas wrote: »

Rodgers now acknowledging the bids. Looks like its getting close to either sh1t or get off the pot time for Suarez.

And he's confirmed that there is a window after which we'll close the door. Again, trying to push someone to make the call.

I wonder how much of this is Arsenal trying to flex their muscles. They can't be that naive to think we'd take that bid and bend over. They'd just lost out on Higuain, and they need to show they are still in the game. If they miss Suarez as well, at least they get to say "We tried..."

cson

Vicxas wrote: »

Rodgers now acknowledging the bids. Looks like its getting close to either sh1t or get off the pot time for Suarez.

Its **** or get off the pot time for Arsenal actually. Liverpool have essentially come out and put a price on him; up to Arsenal to match it if they want him.

Paul Hayward's tweet on the saga sums it up imo;

"This Luis Suarez transfer is like the worlds worst game of poker. Grotesque sums, everyone showing their hand, no end in sight."

I'm just waiting for Real Madrid to buy in and go all in on the first hand!

Pepe LeFrits

razorblunt wrote: »

Anyone else thinking Liverpool are stalling while they sort out transfers for replacements? That way they won't run into a "you're bidding £8million for Bechio, give use some of the Suarez money and make it £22m" type shenanigans. Or is it just wishful thinking?

I really don't think transfers work like that.

gafferino

Vicxas wrote: »

Rodgers now acknowledging the bids. Looks like its getting close to either sh1t or get off the pot time for Suarez.

Well he would have to acknowledge them....its been reported widely by reputable sources and agencies.

LuckyLloyd

Dickerty wrote: »

Not arguing against that, just the point that a 30 goal striker automatically makes all the difference.

If it was that easy, how were we so far back!!

That we were so far back with Suarez in the form he was in last season is a pretty damning indictment of the overall level of performance.

5starpool

SlickRic wrote: »

Brendan:



and also, when asked if Arsenal's bid only meant we only had to inform Suarez.

Means nothing really. It could be the truth, it might not be. Managers comments are meaningless nowadays. Some will be proclaiming this as the definite truth as he said it, but praised him for saying clearly untruthful things about Reina. the truth is that we still don't know for sure, and the only way this will either get resolved is if he officially goes somewhere, the transfer window shuts, or else he says publicly he is actually staying.

gafferino

Interesting post on a Rodgers training session that was apparently leaked online....from RAWK.

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=307324.0

This is the photo apparently....

Lovely Bloke

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

I really don't think transfers work like that.

The Carroll/Torres thing shows that there is a bit of it going on.

Sappy404

cson wrote: »

Its **** or get off the pot time for Arsenal actually. Liverpool have essentially come out and put a price on him; up to Arsenal to match it if they want him.

Paul Hayward's tweet on the saga sums it up imo;

"This Luis Suarez transfer is like the worlds worst game of poker. Grotesque sums, everyone showing their hand, no end in sight."

I'm just waiting for Real Madrid to buy in and go all in on the first hand!

If your analogy is that it's like a game of poker that's not at all like a game of poker, you need a new analogy IMO.

There will be nothing to further to discuss on this until Real Madrid make a bid.

cson

gafferino wrote: »

Interesting post on a Rodgers training session that was apparently leaked online....from RAWK.

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=307324.0

Fascinating read but that path thing is a little OCD :eek:

Sappy404 wrote: »

If your analogy is that it's like a game of poker that's not at all like a game of poker, you need a new analogy IMO.

There will be nothing to further to discuss on this until Real Madrid make a bid.

Not my analogy; Paul Hayward's take on it. I'd agree with him to be honest; both clubs have shown their hand.

Nothing for you to discuss clearly, but plenty for others.

Hidalgo

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

I really don't think transfers work like that.

It could well be how the Mignoloet transfer was done.

mike65

The ball is in Arsenals court, Wenger has to back his words with deeds. If he REALLY wants Suarez then he knows the club will have to get a lot nearer 50 million. Will the board say okay?

gafferino

Joe Allen Vs Melbourne.
I thought he had a good game.

Sappy404

cson wrote: »

Fascinating read but that path thing is a little OCD :eek:



Not my analogy; Paul Hayward's take on it. I'd agree with him to be honest; both clubs have shown their hand.

Nothing for you to discuss clearly, but plenty for others.

Was commenting on Haywards analogy. The 'you' was for rhetoric, not addressing you.

And I'm not suggesting people stop talking about it. When i say 'nothing to be discussed' I mean it's all moot, given Real's likely interest and the fact that both the club and Suarez would prefer them to make the winning bid.

PRAF

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

That we were so far back with Suarez in the form he was in last season is a pretty damning indictment of the overall level of performance.

Disagree. Our results without Suarez since we signed him are better than when he is in the team. Totally counter intuitive I'll admit, however, they are the facts.

There is a school of thought that says Suarez is not really a Rodgers player. He is an unpredictable, shoot from anywhere, driblle from anywhere, try anything type of player. An absolute genius and undoubtedly world class. However, while he'll bag a lot of goals & assists, he'll also lose possession quite a lot (sometimes leading to goals scored against us) and of course there is his volatile nature and disciplinary problems.

If we play our cards right, this is a win-win for us. Keep him and we retain a world class star. Sell him for his market value and we can replace him with two or three players and improve the team as a whole.

My main concerns though are (a) it drags on too long leaving us little time to look for replacements and (b) we sell to a rival thus weakening our chances of getting top 4. If we sell we should sell quick. A £40m sale to Real, Chelsea or City (if any of them interested) would be better than £50m to Arsenal.

SlickRic

Liverpool are begging for a bidding war, or for Real to come in with a mega-bid, or at an outside chance, Arsenal to come in with a very silly offer.

they're quite obviously making this public for a reason.

Sappy404

mike65 wrote: »

The ball is in Arsenals court

The ball is in their court, and they're showing their hand, but we've got an ace up our sleeve, and a Real bid that hits the bullseye will make the dominoes fall like a house of cards - checkmate.

(with apologies to Zapp Brannigan)

gafferino

Farewell Pep its been mostly brilliant and what a bloke.

MD1990

gafferino wrote: »

Farewell Pep its been mostly brilliant and what a bloke.

he keeps biting or flicking players ears looks like a bully to me:p

SlickRic

easily my favourite.

LuckyLloyd

PRAF wrote: »

Disagree. Our results without Suarez since we signed him are better than when he is in the team. Totally counter intuitive I'll admit, however, they are the facts.

There is a school of thought that says Suarez is not really a Rodgers player. He is an unpredictable, shoot from anywhere, driblle from anywhere, try anything type of player. An absolute genius and undoubtedly world class. However, while he'll bag a lot of goals & assists, he'll also lose possession quite a lot (sometimes leading to goals scored against us) and of course there is his volatile nature and disciplinary problems.

If we play our cards right, this is a win-win for us. Keep him and we retain a world class star. Sell him for his market value and we can replace him with two or three players and improve the team as a whole.

My main concerns though are (a) it drags on too long leaving us little time to look for replacements and (b) we sell to a rival thus weakening our chances of getting top 4. If we sell we should sell quick. A £40m sale to Real, Chelsea or City (if any of them interested) would be better than £50m to Arsenal.

Sample size and sample strength dude.

Luckycharms_74

Marca are reporting Real Madrid have ruled out signing Luis Suarez, and will instead put their faith in Alvaro Morata and Jese Rodriguez.

All smoke & mirrors by Real ??

spockety

Phoenix Park wrote: »

To be honest over a 38 game period I think it's fair to say we'll be miles behind them for the foreseeable future if they sign Suarez. Personally I can't see us finishing above them for years, I wish I could say that's an exaggeration.

You have no idea what will happen in transfer windows for the next few years.

When Abramovich came in and Chelsea won two titles in a row under Mourinho everyone was saying similar, that there is a decade of Chelsea titles ahead and nobody will come close etc.

You can't predict that far ahead. Arsenal getting Suarez will be a major blow, but let's remain reasonable.

mike65

Luckycharms_74 wrote: »

Marca are reporting Real Madrid have ruled out signing Luis Suarez, and will instead put their faith in Alvaro Morata and Jese Rodriguez.

All smoke & mirrors by Real ??

How long have Real Madrid being placing their future in the hands of kids? (answer never).

gafferino

SlickRic wrote: »

easily my favourite.

Yeah thats quality and the clip is even better.....he's running before he even scores.

Think this one says a lot about the man though....

klose

Luckycharms_74 wrote: »

Marca are reporting Real Madrid have ruled out signing Luis Suarez, and will instead put their faith in Alvaro Morata and Jese Rodriguez.

All smoke & mirrors by Real ??

Not a chance, a club looking to win the cl wont go about it with one senior striker and 2 kids as back up.

gosplan

Luckycharms_74 wrote: »

Marca are reporting Real Madrid have ruled out signing Luis Suarez, and will instead put their faith in Alvaro Morata and Jese Rodriguez.

All smoke & mirrors by Real ??

I posted earlier in the Arsenal thread. Apart from using a diamond initially at Chelsea which was probably down to the squad he inherited, Ancelotti has consistently used a 4-3-3 or 4-3-2-1 over the last few years.

Yesterday, Madrid lined up with Ronaldo and Ozil behind Benzema.

I wouldn't put it past them to spend 40 million on a backup but it would make much more sense to pay 60 for Bale. Ronaldo can probably play the lone striker pretty well too.

super_furry

All this Madrid talk is entirely one sided, it's all come from Suarez and his people. I wouldn't be surprised if there was never any real interest - even before the end of the season Madrid staff were saying that Suarez would be a risk if they signed him.

They've just got rid of Mourinho, a manager whose popularity waned because of his controversial and sparky nature and the belief that he was dragging the club's name through the mud. I don't think they're going to take a gamble on Suarez doing something similar.

LuckyLloyd

Reina loved the club and he was really wonderful during his first four years playing for us. The latter half of his Liverpool career became progressively worse however and despite a slight renaissance at the tail end of last season I won't lament his departure.

I'd love it if he rejuvenated his form in Naples.

That said, his defenders often claimed that the lack of competition was a factor in his deterioation. And maybe they are correct? In my world £110k would be money well spent if it lit a competitive fire under both our goalkeepers and allowed them to really push each other to excel for us on the pitch.

AdamD

Dickerty wrote: »

I don't. Still questionable at GK, FB and CM (when Wilshere is out, which is often). Good attack in Cazorla, Walcott and Podolski, which he would be a good spearhead for, but they are MILES behind City, Chelsea and United in terms of overall quality.

You think they will go from no trophies in 8 years to serious contenders with one signing, when that signing isn't Messi??

I really don't buy this miles behind business, maybe the Manchester clubs but Chelsea? 2 points behind them last season, ahead of them the season before. We were actually on 5 points off City last year. Now they've obviously improved but with some decent transfers Arsenal should at least challenge top 3. Can't see there being a title challenge but I can see Arsenal getting top 4 comfortably and being able to concentrate on cups more if they strengthen well.

Also disagree with Arsenal being weak at full back. Jenkinson and Sagna for RBs with Gibbs and Monreal at LB is the strongest they've been in years.


Would Liverpool fans in here be happy with the rumoured 50m price for Arsenal? Or still too low for a rival?

Courtesy Flush

Suarez seemed to 'assume' Madrid were interested in him. Now hes moving to London to get away from the English media