Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/2014

Turtyturd

rarnes1 wrote: »

Selling to Arsenal for £50m would be a serious mistake.

It would ultimately cost Rodgers his job imo because top 4 won't be happening.

I think we should all agree that with losing our only world class player and number one goalkeeper 'The Rodgers' should be given a free pass this season.

Blatter

djPSB wrote: »

Seems the problem is that he wants to join Arsenal.

Rooney wants to go to Chelsea, Heinze wanted to go to Liverpool. Did United for one second indicate that they'd be willing to sell them to those clubs? No, and that's how the initial stance at least should be. It just makes the club look strong.

super_furry

Turtyturd wrote: »

I think we should all agree that with losing our only world class player and number one goalkeeper 'The Rodgers' should be given a free pass this season.

Hardly. This is the season on which he will be judged and Reina stopped being our number one goalkeeper when Mingolet was signed.

Kirby

Haven Shapely Snowplow wrote: »

So there was an agreement that if a club offered £40m+ that suarez would be able to talk directly to them. This way he gets to see the deal on offer from the potential club and so on.

This is just a guess though. We don't actually know the details of the contract....only the two different versions we have been told by the club and players agent.

If it actually is what you say it is....its completely pointless. It does Suarez no good to know that any club is willing to pay him 1 million a week plus a free moon........ if Liverpool won't let him go. Why would an agent demand such a thing? It's a pointless clause and I can't for the life of me understand why Guardiola would want it inserted. Logically, he wouldn't.

Me thinks it's a lot more standard of a release clause and Liverpool are just hoping somebody bids more....namely Real. If Suarez doesn't end up at Arsenal I'd be very surprised at this point and expect it to end up in court.

mike65

Dickerty wrote: »

In ACTUAL news, the U21s beat Glentoran yesterday, great assist by McLaughlin (again) for Peterson. Looks like a close and competitive game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab3Ndo9j4Ew

Shame there is no commentary, don't know who all the players were unless you can make out their numbers.

The team sheet is here for anyone who needs a prompt!

A couple of seasons ago Sama and Wisdom were beside each other in central defence, one is still ploughing a furrow at u21 level while the other is a first teamer is who looks increasingly at ease.

kingshankly

Loosing reina and Suarez will make some difference to the dressing room both very talented but one an absolute gent the other a vile human being never liked Suarez but alway appreciated what he did on the pitch.
As for reina running on the pitch to celebrate with brad jones in the wake of his sons death is an image that will always stay with me.
Thank pepe and good luck
Hope to see you next Saturday at anfield

gafferino

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I really, really hope it's Suarez. I wouldn't put it past Suarez for a second too.

That said, I wouldn't put it past Ayre and the boys to make a mistake drafting the contracts.

As I posted earlier both parties would have had their legal teams scrutinise these contracts. They both know what is in it.
Its just posturing to get out of the contract imo.

LuckyLloyd

Dickerty wrote: »

Based on what?

You really think our lawyers, or FSG's team, wouldn't have taken every care??

After the way the club handled the initial Suarez incident, Chang nonesense, and Dempsey saga last summer who knows really? It's far more likely to be Suarez at fault but let's not pretend that the club has been fully competent during FSG's tenure.

Kess73

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I really, really hope it's Suarez. I wouldn't put it past Suarez for a second too.

That said, I wouldn't put it past Ayre and the boys to make a mistake drafting the contracts.

Given the track record of Suarez and his agent for "misunderstanding" contracts, I would reckon there is a much stronger chance of any "mistakes" or blatant bullsh1t coming from that side.


His agent has already publicly stated two different "understandings" of his current contract, and have been able to produce nothing in physical form to back up their claims. Plus they can ramble on about having their South American legal team look into things all they like as that has no bearing at all on a case that would be heard in a YL court if it goes that far.

If anything Suarez and his agent are sounding like Hicks and Gillet when those two cowboys were talking rubbish about wanting their case against Liverpool football club to be heard in a Texas court.

As for you not being surprised if "Ayre and the boys" made mistakes with regards to the contracts, well given their business track records and the lack of previous in that department I would be very surprised if they were at fault with regards to the contract. They can have question marks raised over them for footballing reasons, but when it comes to the business world they (and Ayre in particular) have very strong track records.

Dickerty

KingJamsie wrote: »

Well I believe the delay with Aspas was because we were negotiating with the wrong agent...:rolleyes:

What I read is that Aspas employed another agency to push through a move, but they were not formally registered somewhere, so we had to take extra steps to complete the deal. The main delay was down to a contractual issue (bonus) with him and his club.

Everyone loves having a pop at Ayre, I don't understand it...it's all personal, even though professionally he'd been a big success for us.

Vanolder

mike65 wrote: »

The team sheet is here for anyone who needs a prompt!

A couple of seasons ago Sama and Wisdom were beside each other in central defence, one is still ploughing a furrow at u21 level while the other is a first teamer is who looks increasingly at ease.

Is that Yesil at 13? What has happened him? Big talk of him when he signed.

qvsr46ofgc792k

Kirby wrote: »

This is just a guess though. We don't actually know the details of the contract....only the two different versions we have been told by the club and players agent.

If it actually is what you say it is....its completely pointless. It does Suarez no good to know that any club is willing to pay him 1 million a week plus a free moon........ if Liverpool won't let him go. Why would an agent demand such a thing? It's a pointless clause and I can't for the life of me understand why Guardiola would want it inserted. Logically, he wouldn't.

Me thinks it's a lot more standard of a release clause and Liverpool are just hoping somebody bids more....namely Real. If Suarez doesn't end up at Arsenal I'd be very surprised at this point and expect it to end up in court.

Lets be realistic here, a lot of clauses put into contracts are not solely for the players purpose.
You're forgetting how/why agents have jobs and what their goals are.

Turtyturd

super_furry wrote: »

Hardly. This is the season on which he will be judged and Reina stopped being our number one goalkeeper when Mingolet was signed.

I was joking but this will be seriously trotted out after the first game.

Francie Barrett

Vanolder wrote: »

Is that Yesil at 13? What has happened him? Big talk of him when he signed.

Barely played last year because of injury. He's fit now and I reckon this year will be make or break for him. If he's not scoring bags of goals at under-21 level, he'll never make it.

Dickerty

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

After the way the club handled the initial Suarez incident, Chang nonesense, and Dempsey saga last summer who knows really? It's far more likely to be Suarez at fault but let's not pretend that the club has been fully competent during FSG's tenure.

Depends on what you mean by fully. The Chang nonsense was Chang's fault. The Suarez thing was top to bottom, at a board and management level I am sure. As for Dempsey - not sure I am bothered by that in hindsight. We played chicken, we lost, but maybe we actually won in the end?

He's been a HUGE success on the commercial side, did a good job bringing in Coutinho, Sturridge and all the summer signings. To me, he's definately improving, as are the whole tea. We are getting tougher, smarter and more measured in our approach. He's only 2 years in that job, Rodgers only a year, so these partnerships take time...

Hidalgo

Kirby wrote: »

They may not have to. Something tells me that this may end up in court. I know that's a pretty strong statement but if Suarez and his people interpret his contract one way and Liverpool another......It could end up there.

Liverpool might just end up selling him to Arsenal for a face saving "undisclosed fee" which basically means 40 million to avoid the legal headache. That contract clause sounds ridiculous. I've never heard of a "minimum inform player of bid" clause. Somebody is telling lies here and its either the club or Suarez' agent. Either is possible.

If it does go to court, one side is going to look very amateurish. Surely a legal team should make sure these type of contracts are locked in so tight that nothing is open to interpretation.
The club might/should be willing to go to court if Suarez and his agent are the ones making the cock up. If its the other way round, they might just try and save face which would be great news for Arsenal

mike65

Vanolder wrote: »

Is that Yesil at 13? What has happened him? Big talk of him when he signed.

That's Yusuf Mersin, ex Millwall stopper.

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Barely played last year because of injury. He's fit now and I reckon this year will be make or break for him. If he's not scoring bags of goals at under-21 level, he'll never make it.

Samed Yesil is going to be a fine player for us, that injury on duty for Germany (why do players so often pick up injuries when playing in internationals?) really came a bad time as he was hitting his stride nicely.

Kess73

gafferino wrote: »

As I posted earlier both parties would have had their legal teams scrutinise these contracts. They both know what is in it.
Its just posturing to get out of the contract imo.

Pretty sure it is just Suarez and his agent making up stuff, just like he did regarding his contract in Holland when he tried to force a move without having to hand in a transfer request.


Their version of things might carry some weight if not for the fact that their version of what the contract says has changed a couple of times already.

The agent started off saying that it was a £40m relase clause with no stipulations. Then he claimed it was a case of any bid over £40m meant Suarez did not have to hand in a transfer request. Then yesterday he was claiming the clause was that if any team in the CL made a bid of £40m then Suarez could leave.

Then he started on about South American law and how the legal team Suarez hired in Uruguay would be looking into it with the possibility of them taking action.

At this point, and after the complete about turn on having to leave England due to his fear for the safety of his family, I would find it very hard to believe any of the many versions of events that come from camp Suarez. I'm sure there will be some other version of what Suarez undertsands his contract to mean along soon, and he will happily ignore all the other versions that were mentioned because this one will be the truth....honestly it will........


What we need now is to hire Karl Pilkington to follow Suarez around and be Bullsh1t Man.

KingJamsie

Dickerty wrote: »

What I read is that Aspas employed another agency to push through a move, but they were not formally registered somewhere, so we had to take extra steps to complete the deal. The main delay was down to a contractual issue (bonus) with him and his club.

Everyone loves having a pop at Ayre, I don't understand it...it's all personal, even though professionally he'd been a big success for us.

Not a personal dig at Ayre, was directed at the whole of Transfer committee

whatawaster

Turtyturd wrote: »

I was joking but this will be seriously trotted out after the first game.

To be fair, we will have been very unlucky in that game.

Dickerty

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Barely played last year because of injury. He's fit now and I reckon this year will be make or break for him. If he's not scoring bags of goals at under-21 level, he'll never make it.

In that TBT phone interview with Inglethorpe, I think he said he was further back in his recovery that two other players who missed the end of last season with bad injuries - Pelosi was one?

Dickerty

KingJamsie wrote: »

Not a personal dig at Ayre, was directed at the whole of Transfer committee

Well, that is a brand new thing, so we can't say it has failed yet. Last 6 signings (Jan and this summer) have been done quick, with little fuss and are looking like smart moves...

LiamoSail

Once he initiates legal action, he's gone IMO. He can't play for the club while he's suing. Problem is then, wht can the club do?

Keep him but not play him?

Sell him on the cheap abroad?

It's a loose loose situation when a player is as determined to leave as Suarez seems to be

mike65

Dickerty wrote: »

In that TBT phone interview with Inglethorpe, I think he said he was further back in his recovery that two other players who missed the end of last season with bad injuries - Pelosi was one?

Brad Smith is the other one

kingshankly

Unfortunately the day is gone when a player arrives at Liverpool and he thinks I have made it now we are a stepping stone to greater things.

gosplan

LiamoSail wrote: »

Once he initiates legal action, he's gone IMO. He can't play for the club while he's suing. Problem is then, wht can the club do?

Keep him but not play him?

Sell him on the cheap abroad?

It's a loose loose situation when a player is as determined to leave as Suarez seems to be

I'm telling you, everyone laughed at the time but that 1 quid will end up making Suarez's position at the club impossible.

But yeah they could have been less blatant about it and made it 41 million.

ronjo

gafferino wrote: »

As I posted earlier both parties would have had their legal teams scrutinise these contracts. They both know what is in it.
Its just posturing to get out of the contract imo.

Maybe the translator screwed it up. The English version says one thing and the Spanish version something else

Kirby

kingshankly wrote: »

Unfortunately the day is gone when a player arrives at Liverpool and he thinks I have made it now we are a stepping stone to greater things.

This is a little unfair. Even the very top clubs lose players all the time. Ronaldo left United and Rooney wants out too apparently, Chelsea and Real both lost Robben, Fabregas may leave Barca, Ibra was also sold by Barca, Tevez left City, Higuain left Real, etc. etc.

Every club loses players.

qvsr46ofgc792k

Kirby wrote: »

This is a little unfair. Even the very top clubs lose players all the time. Ronaldo left United and Rooney wants out too apparently, Chelsea and Real both lost Robben, Fabregas may leave Barca, Ibra was also sold by Barca, Higuain left Real, etc. etc.

Every club loses players.

And these clubs you mention can replace them with either like for like or better. That's the big difference.

Blatter

Kirby wrote: »

This is a littledifferentir. Even the very top clubs lose players all the time. Ronaldo left United and Rooney wants out too apparently, Chelsea and Real both lost Robben, Fabregas may leave Barca, Ibra was also sold by Barca, Higuain left Real, etc. etc.

Every club loses players.

All of those players mentioned left for different reasons other than their current club not matching their ambitions.

GiftofGab

Probably posted a thousand times but I was at the match last night in Melbourne. Have to say You'll Never Walk Alone was a classic. 95000 people at the game with almost all of them Liverpool fans. Enjoy.

Kirby

Blatter wrote: »

All of those players mentioned left for other reasons other than their current club not matching their ambitions.

I kind of never believe that line when it's trotted out though. Rooney claimed he wanted to leave United a few seasons back for that very same reason. And now when they did show ambition and sign RvP, he can't get in the team and wants out. :P

I just don't believe the line. It's about money and champions league exposure. Sure, everybody wants to win things but it's more important that the team win things with them in it in a starring role. Club ambition is no good if they get replaced!

Blatter

Kirby wrote: »

I kind of never believe that line when it's trotted out though. Rooney claimed he wanted to leave United a few seasons back for that very same reason. And now when they did show ambition and sign RvP, he can't get in the team and wants out. :P

I just don't believe the line. It's about money and champions league exposure. Sure, everybody wants to win things but it's more important that the team win things with them in it in a starring role. Club ambition is no good if they get replaced!

So why exactly do you think Suarez wants to leave Liverpool?

More money? Would Arsenal really pay him more than what Liverpool would offer him to stay?

Dickerty

Haven Shapely Snowplow wrote: »

And these clubs you mention can replace them with either like for like or better. That's the big difference.

Which is what we will do. We are trying right now to improve, and if he stays, we WILL be better than end of last season, and a fair bit better than 12 months ago. If he goes, we'll need to try and replace the (almost) irreplacable...

Mumha

LiamoSail wrote: »

Once he initiates legal action, he's gone IMO. He can't play for the club while he's suing. Problem is then, wht can the club do?

Keep him but not play him?

Sell him on the cheap abroad?

It's a loose loose situation when a player is as determined to leave as Suarez seems to be

I don't think there's any doubt that he'll be sold. The only questions are, for how much and who to ? Arsenal could yet be the stalking horse for Real.

opr

citytillidie wrote: »

If your man does go to Arsenal there will be no coming back for a send off like when he left Ajax for Liverpool.

This was never really going to happen anyway. The likes of Ajax/Porto fans know the club is a stepping stone to better things and so they accept that they get them for a few years and they move on. Liverpool fans are not ready to accept we're a stepping stone club, nor should we be. It's probably part of the reason we're finding it hard to attract players. If I was someone thinking Liverpool might raise my profile enough to move to a club with a better chance of winning things if we don't progress while at Liverpool, I'd probably be looking elsewhere after seeing the hell we create for players wanting to move on and the abuse they get from the fans.

Opr

LiamoSail

Mumha wrote: »

I don't think there's any doubt that he'll be sold. The only questions are, for how much and who to ? Arsenal could yet be the stalking horse for Real.

This is the thing though, if he initiates legal action, real won't offer £40m, they'll be coming in closer to the 30 mark id imagine

Kirby

Blatter wrote: »

So why exactly do you think Suarez wants to leave Liverpool?

More money? Would Arsenal really pay him more than what Liverpool would offer him to stay?

I think the reasons would be fairly obvious. Like Torres, he was probably promised champions league football and it hasn't come. He probably doesn't think they will get it this year. So champions league football would be the big one.

Money the other. Arsenal have broken their long standing wage structure....so yes, he would be on a lot more than he's on now. Probably north of 175k perhaps 200k.

Culturally, I think Real would be his preferred choice. He's made that pretty clear. He hates the English media and at Real, he would get to dive as much as he wants without media attention because its the norm over there and also challenge for top honours with one of the best clubs in world football.

Some pretty good reasons to leave to be honest. The one thing he wont get at Real is cult status. He had that at Liverpool before all this transfer guff. Most of the fans loved him. Only he knows if that matters to him.

Dickerty

opr wrote: »

This was never really going to happen anyway. The likes of Ajax/Porto fans know the club is a stepping stone to better things and so they accept that they get them for a few years and they move on. Liverpool fans are not ready to accept we're a stepping stone club, nor should we be. It's probably part of the reason we're finding it hard to attract players. If I was someone thinking Liverpool might raise my profile enough to move to a club with a better chance of winning things if we don't progress while at Liverpool, I'd probably be looking elsewhere after seeing the hell we create for players wanting to move on and the abuse they get from the fans.

Opr

It was a stepping stone for Torres, Alonso and Masc. They all got big moves out of playing for us. I am sure Suarez saw that and thought the same. But 2.5 years, with all his fookin' about, is not enough to deserve to leave with a pat on the back from me...

mike65

The best news about this is that Liverpool have never sold a player who went on to better things, you might riposte with Alonso or Masch but all they did was go to bigger clubs who were better positioned, they didn't get any bigger or better than they already were.

Indeed most of the big names sold have had pretty mediocre careers thereafter. Hopefully this trend continues.

cson

mike65 wrote: »

The best news about this is that Liverpool have never sold a player who went on to better things, you might riposte with Alonso or Masch but all they did was go to bigger clubs who were better positioned, they didn't get any bigger or better than they already were.

Indeed most of the big names sold have had pretty mediocre careers thereafter. Hopefully this trend continues.

Jaysus Mike, you've broken my delusion-o-meter there.

Sappy404

mike65 wrote: »

The best news about this is that Liverpool have never sold a player who went on to better things, you might riposte with Alonso or Masch but all they did was go to bigger clubs who were better positioned, they didn't get any bigger or better than they already were.

Indeed most of the big names sold have had pretty mediocre careers thereafter. Hopefully this trend continues.

Are you for real? Mascherano has won practically everything he could have since leaving.

Hidalgo

opr wrote: »

This was never really going to happen anyway. The likes of Ajax/Porto fans know the club is a stepping stone to better things and so they accept that they get them for a few years and they move on. Liverpool fans are not ready to accept we're a stepping stone club, nor should we be. It's probably part of the reason we're finding it hard to attract players. If I was someone thinking Liverpool might raise my profile enough to move to a club with a better chance of winning things if we don't progress while at Liverpool, I'd probably be looking elsewhere after seeing the hell we create for players wanting to move on and the abuse they get from the fans.

Opr

If its ok for Ajax to be a stepping stone, then why isn't it ok for Liverpool?
Both are.

opr

Dickerty wrote: »

It was a stepping stone for Torres, Alonso and Masc. They all got big moves out of playing for us. I am sure Suarez saw that and thought the same. But 2.5 years, with all his fookin' about, is not enough to deserve to leave with a pat on the back from me...

A stepping stone in which two of those players had to kick and scream to get out of the club and then took huge amounts of abuse from the fans. That's my whole point. It's not like we threw them a big party, thanked them for the contributions to the club etc like Ajax/Porto do for players looking at them like a stepping stone. Liverpool and its fan are not ready to see the club in that light. Alonso was different in that he had the narrative from the fall out with the manager to see us bear very little ill will towards him moving. Suarez has played out the same with him having to kick and scream and now the fans completely turning on him.

Opr

qvsr46ofgc792k

Dickerty wrote: »

Which is what we will do. We are trying right now to improve, and if he stays, we WILL be better than end of last season, and a fair bit better than 12 months ago. If he goes, we'll need to try and replace the (almost) irreplacable...

But won't, unfortunately.

I think the best scenario here is, Suarez needs to be convinced that we will be in the CL next season and if we dont, he can leave. This is not a bad option at all, and without his agent in his ear, he could possibly see this.

Whats his option right now...arsenal...are they really going to compete for the title, will they have a strong fight in the CL? Oh this year they will...sure they say that every year and where is the glory to back this up? Another thing, he thinks he has it bad with the press now, can you only imagine if he moves to Arsenal how they will hocky him at every opportunity.

On the other hand if Madrid seriously want him, you could not hold it against him for leaving.

He needs to be re-assured that apart from Madrid, remaining at LFC one more year is probably his best option.

Dickerty

opr wrote: »

A stepping stone in which two of those players had to kick and scream to get out of the club and then took huge amounts of abuse from the fans. That's my whole point. It's not like we threw them a big party, thanked them for the contributions to the club etc like Ajax/Porto do for players looking at them like a stepping stone. Liverpool and its fan are not ready to see the club in that light. Alonso was different in that he had the narrative from the fall out with the manager to see us bear very little ill will towards him moving. Suarez has played out the same with him having to kick and scream and now the fans completely turning on him.

Opr

Torres left us in a very difficult position so late in the window, that is a big part of the animosity - and he went to CHELSEA!
I don't think people feel that bad about Masc. He wanted to go to Barca, we agreed to let him go if he stayed another year, which he did. Low noise, low fuss.

mike65

cson wrote: »

Jaysus Mike, you've broken my delusion-o-meter there.

Sappy404 wrote: »

Are you for real? Mascherano has won practically everything he could have since leaving.

Christ on a bike! Don't people read anything any more - I noted the clubs they went to were better positioned than LFC, but that they were not better players. Hell Torres won two European gongs by accident essentially.

Nearly every player that was sold for big money has gone on to win silverware.

Mike, have a siesta!

mike65

rarnes1 wrote: »

Nearly every player that was sold for big money has gone on to win silverware.

Mike, have a siesta!

Fernando Torres £50,000,000 31 January 2011
Xabi Alonso £30,000,000 5 August 2009
Javier Mascherano £17,250,000 30 August 2010
Robbie Keane £16,000,000 * 2 February 2009
Andy Carroll £15,000,000 19 June 2013
Robbie Fowler £12,000,000 29 November 2001
Raul Meireles £12,000,000 31 August 2011
Peter Crouch £11,000,000 * 11 July 2008
Michael Owen £8,500,000 * 14 August 2004
Momo Sissoko £8,200,000 28 January 2008
Craig Bellamy £7,500,000 10 July 2007
Stan Collymore £7,000,000 13 May 1997
Alberto Aquilani £7,000,000 3 August 2012
Milan Baros £6,500,000 23 August 2005
Emile Heskey £6,250,000 * 18 May 2004

cson

Haven Shapely Snowplow wrote: »

Oh this year they will...sure they say that every year and where is the glory to back this up?

I don't think any Arsenal fan has wheeled out "this year will be our year" wagon for the past two season. 10/11 we were in with a shout for the league for a long way until the League Cup Final + losing Cesc to injury allied to a big lack of bottle put the kaibosh on that. Following two seasons have seen the squad decimated and its only now that we *think* we've turned a corner in terms of keeping the squad together and adding to it.

I mean, you don't bid £40m for a player for the ****s and giggles if we're being honest. So yes, while Arsenal may not be Suarez first choice, I don't think its hard to see that they are potentially a club on the up. All will be revealed 1/9/13 in any case; both Suarez destination and Arsenal's ambition as a club.