Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/2014

Dickerty

NukaCola wrote: »

If/When they lose Bale they have a better track record in the market and i would be confident they would replace him and add to their first 11.

Do they?

Corluka
Pienaar
Bassong
Saha
Woodgate
Bentley
Palacios
Pavlyuchenko
Gomes

Every club has their failures and successes. I wouldn't say that either is predisposed to do a better job with money...

LuckyLloyd

mike65 wrote: »

I think this thread needs a bucket of water throwing over it. Maybe if everyone just backed away and got on with stuff - vacuum the house if you are at home, do some work if you are at work, just take a break.

Come back when some actual news that pertains directly to the club breaks be it a player or a match.

Spurs signing Soldado directly pertains to where the club is, but you'll choose not to see it. They are the bigger lion in the jungle right now and that's awful stuff.

SlickRic

Soldado signing for Spurs has a direct impact on us. it's very much news related to Liverpool.

it also shines a light on our signings so far, and indeed, who we might bring in before the deadline. it makes signings happening even more critical.

NukaCola

Dickerty wrote: »

Do they?

Ahh....the inevitable list of the poor signings made, totally ignoring good signings to suit your argument........if you dont think Spurs has done much better business than us in the transfer market over the past 4/5 years, just look at the ground they've made up on the top 4 and look at the ground we have lost.....

Dickerty

Kess73 wrote: »

Said this yesterday, but they have a much stronger squad than we currently have, and as things stand now they have a stronger first team.

I think we match them in terms of starting goalkeeper.

They have a better, imo, back four as a unit.

They have a much better trio in the centre of midfield than any trio we could put out. They can put out a midfield trio that contain pace, guile, steel, ball retention, and creativity. We have no trio that would have all those qualities between them.Even their current back up CM options look a lot better than what we have.


The one area where we are stronger in my eyes is the attacking trio with our trio of Coutinho, Suarez, and Sturridge not being matched by any trio they can currently put out.

So they are a better unit in defense, and we are better in attack (with Soldado and without Bale?), then if we sign a player to work with Lucas and Stevie, are we back on terms?

And if we sign Papa, are we ahead?

Just trying to point out that we are talking about single players making a big impact...

MD1990

great news for Liverpools fans & Enrique

billy2012

Dickerty wrote: »

So they are a better unit in defense, and we are better in attack (with Soldado and without Bale?), then if we sign a player to work with Lucas and Stevie, are we back on terms?

And if we sign Papa, are we ahead?

Just trying to point out that we are talking about single players making a big impact...

Neither would get into the Spurs midfield.

billy2012

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/steven-gerrard-interview-all-hail-liverpools-captain-fantastic-8740850.html
Interview with Gerrard.

PRAF

**Warning - bit of a rant below!**

Does anyone else see the massive bubble that is happening in elite european football right now? Lets look at some of what's going on:
- The rich clubs getting richer
- Most of the European leagues becoming two or three horse races
- Ticket prices out of the reach of ordinary working class people
- Obscene wages with the gap between the elite players and the ordinary fan never being wider
- Ridiculous transfer fees that have little or no bearing on the economics of a deal (how can any player be worth £85m plus whatever wages you'll give him over 4 or 5 years of a contract?)
- Football clubs being used as vehicles for morally / legally dodgy owners to buy themselves some respectibility
- Unsustainable losses despite record revenues
- Worst of all, Sky Sports are looking for an extra €3 a month from my pocket

As per usual, the Germans are bucking the trend with things like fan ownership / involvement, reasonable ticket prices, etc. FFP and other initiatives (e.g. SoS) may also help buck the trend a little bit.

My question is whether we're just a couple of years away from a collapse of a major European club. In England you could argue that City and Chelsea are built on unsustainable business models (particularly City). In Spain, you could say that Barca and Real have rigged the tv deal so much that they are in danger of collapsing the whole league. In France, PSG and perhaps Monaco seem to be run in an unsustainable way as well.

I for one am glad that we have owners who see the madness of the above and are trying to build the club back up in a sustainable way

Dickerty

NukaCola wrote: »

Ahh....the inevitable list of the poor signings made, totally ignoring good signings to suit your argument........if you dont think Spurs has done much better business than us in the transfer market over the past 4/5 years, just look at the ground they've made up on the top 4 and look at the ground we have lost.....

There is a lot more to it than that. Our repeated change of ownership and management has a lot more to do with it. No single direction for more than 18 months at a time. Signing players to play one way then playing another way. Losing established stars like Sami, Alonso, Torres. That is why we've fallen the way we did. If we had a stable base during that period, we wouldn't have made of those decisions.

And what would be the point in listing the good signings? The nay-sayers on here only ever criticise us for our bad signings, not good signings like Torres, Alonso, Masc, Suarez, Coutinho, Sturridge, Lucas, Johnson, Agger, Reina...

billy2012

Dickerty wrote: »

There is a lot more to it than that. Our repeated change of ownership and management has a lot more to do with it. No single direction for more than 18 months at a time. Signing players to play one way then playing another way. Losing established stars like Sami, Alonso, Torres. That is why we've fallen the way we did. If we had a stable base during that period, we wouldn't have made of those decisions.

And what would be the point in listing the good signings? The nay-sayers on here only ever criticise us for our bad signings, not good signings like Torres, Alonso, Masc, Suarez, Coutinho, Sturridge, Lucas, Johnson, Agger, Reina...

Why would we criticise good signings??

Dickerty

billy2012 wrote: »

Neither would get into the Spurs midfield.

Just let me get this straight. Steven Gerrard wouldn't get into the Spurs team?

Really?

:eek:

NukaCola

Dickerty wrote: »

There is a lot more to it than that. Our repeated change of ownership and management has a lot more to do with it. No single direction for more than 18 months at a time. Signing players to play one way then playing another way. Losing established stars like Sami, Alonso, Torres. That is why we've fallen the way we did. If we had a stable base during that period, we wouldn't have made of those decisions.

And what would be the point in listing the good signings? The nay-sayers on here only ever criticise us for our bad signings, not good signings like Torres, Alonso, Masc, Suarez, Coutinho, Sturridge, Lucas, Johnson, Agger, Reina...

Fair points.....but when analyzing how effective teams are in the transfer market, you have to mention the good signings

LuckyLloyd

PRAF wrote: »

I for one am glad that we have owners who see the madness of the above and are trying to build the club back up in a sustainable way

Compete or die. Another half decade like last season and a restructuring of the game won't matter. We'll be out of the conversation, with no top notch players and no ability to put financial prudence to work as our brand has lost relevance.

Sitting around throwing rocks at the excess of the big boys is a losing strategy. Get in the mixer or accept long term irrelevance.

Dickerty

billy2012 wrote: »

Why would we criticise good signings??

I mean they don't give credit. So when I am comparing our poor record to Spurs, I also compare to their poor signings.

Let me repeat a stat from the PL last season - we scored 5 more and condeded 3 less.

Not bad for an inferior team...

Dickerty

NukaCola wrote: »

Fair points.....but when analyzing how effective teams are in the transfer market, you have to mention the good signings

Absolutely - Redknapp did a very good job overall, helped by the sales of Berbatov and Keane in the same year. A consistant board/chairman also helped a great deal...

NukaCola

Dickerty wrote: »

I mean they don't give credit. So when I am comparing our poor record to Spurs, I also compare to their poor signings.

Let me repeat a stat from the PL last season - we scored 5 more and condeded 3 less.

Not bad for an inferior team...

But we finished 11 points behind them, despite our excellent run in

Ardent

PRAF wrote: »

**Warning - bit of a rant below!**

Does anyone else see the massive bubble that is happening in elite european football right now? Lets look at some of what's going on:
- The rich clubs getting richer
- Most of the European leagues becoming two or three horse races
- Ticket prices out of the reach of ordinary working class people
- Obscene wages with the gap between the elite players and the ordinary fan never being wider
- Ridiculous transfer fees that have little or no bearing on the economics of a deal (how can any player be worth £85m plus whatever wages you'll give him over 4 or 5 years of a contract?)
- Football clubs being used as vehicles for morally / legally dodgy owners to buy themselves some respectibility
- Unsustainable losses despite record revenues
- Worst of all, Sky Sports are looking for an extra €3 a month from my pocket

As per usual, the Germans are bucking the trend with things like fan ownership / involvement, reasonable ticket prices, etc. FFP and other initiatives (e.g. SoS) may also help buck the trend a little bit.

My question is whether we're just a couple of years away from a collapse of a major European club. In England you could argue that City and Chelsea are built on unsustainable business models (particularly City). In Spain, you could say that Barca and Real have rigged the tv deal so much that they are in danger of collapsing the whole league. In France, PSG and perhaps Monaco seem to be run in an unsustainable way as well.

I for one am glad that we have owners who see the madness of the above and are trying to build the club back up in a sustainable way

But are they really trying to build the club back up in a sustainable way or are they just treading water until such time that they can sell the club for a profit?

LuckyLloyd

Dickerty wrote: »

Let me repeat a stat from the PL last season - we scored 5 more and condeded 3 less.

Not bad for an inferior team...

Who gives a ****? They competed for something meaningful, we didn't. The 6 - 0 drubbings mean **** all, people need to start understanding that.

billy2012

Dickerty wrote: »

I mean they don't give credit. So when I am comparing our poor record to Spurs, I also compare to their poor signings.

Let me repeat a stat from the PL last season - we scored 5 more and condeded 3 less.

Not bad for an inferior team...

Stats eh?? Where did both teams finish again??

I've no interest in talking about this anymore. We will have to agree to disagree.

joe123

Actually gutted Spurs have got Soldado. Thats the calibre of player we need to be signing. Honestly thought we would at least put in a bid.

If Spurs can attract that standard then theres no excuse for us.

Dickerty

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Compete or die. Another half decade like last season and a restructuring of the game won't matter. We'll be out of the conversation, with no top notch players and no ability to put financial prudence to work as our brand has lost relevance.

Did you see any of the Asia tour coverage? We are adored by fans who have grown up with us winning NOTHING of note in the last 8 years. A few domestic cups yes, but that's all. These are not all in their 40s and 50s, they didn't grow up watching the 80s team sweeping all before them like me. But they still love the team, and they always will. It's not as short term fancy for them.

That is not to say we should take our time, but to suggest that struggling in 5/6/7th for a few seasons will see our support or commercial relevence massively wain is simple not true.

OwaynOTT

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Who gives a ****? They competed for something meaningful, we didn't. The 6 - 0 drubbings mean **** all, people need to start understanding that.

Sorry my memory is crap but what meaningful thing did they compete for?

RasTa

Dickerty wrote: »

Let me repeat a stat from the PL last season - we scored 5 more and condeded 3 less.

Not bad for an inferior team...

Or you could say you finished 11 points behind them and haven't finished above them since 08/09.

Anyone

I don't see Spurs getting a top 4 this year either. They will do their usual, play well for 3/4 of the season and drop off. The loss of Bale will be massive to them.

LuckyLloyd

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Sorry my memory is crap but what meaningful thing did they compete for?

CL Qualification down to the, you know, last game of the season.

5starpool

PRAF wrote: »

**Warning - bit of a rant below!**

Does anyone else see the massive bubble that is happening in elite european football right now? Lets look at some of what's going on:
- The rich clubs getting richer
- Most of the European leagues becoming two or three horse races
- Ticket prices out of the reach of ordinary working class people
- Obscene wages with the gap between the elite players and the ordinary fan never being wider
- Ridiculous transfer fees that have little or no bearing on the economics of a deal (how can any player be worth £85m plus whatever wages you'll give him over 4 or 5 years of a contract?)
- Football clubs being used as vehicles for morally / legally dodgy owners to buy themselves some respectibility
- Unsustainable losses despite record revenues
- Worst of all, Sky Sports are looking for an extra €3 a month from my pocket

As per usual, the Germans are bucking the trend with things like fan ownership / involvement, reasonable ticket prices, etc. FFP and other initiatives (e.g. SoS) may also help buck the trend a little bit.

My question is whether we're just a couple of years away from a collapse of a major European club. In England you could argue that City and Chelsea are built on unsustainable business models (particularly City). In Spain, you could say that Barca and Real have rigged the tv deal so much that they are in danger of collapsing the whole league. In France, PSG and perhaps Monaco seem to be run in an unsustainable way as well.

I for one am glad that we have owners who see the madness of the above and are trying to build the club back up in a sustainable way

This is something I had a post written out for before, but deleted most of it and just incorporated a bit of it in a wider post.

The inflation in transfer fees and wages over the last decade in particular has been spectacular, but just talking about England for a minute, it is not as easy to forsee a collapse in finances as it is in Spain. Spain is in real possibility of meltdown, and I saw somewhere that the government are hoping to force collective selling on them, which is the English model, rather than the individual selling rights at the moment which sees Barcelona take in more than the 3rd-8th teams combined and has most teams in crisis, and if the big 2 weren't being propped up, their debts would threaten to overwhelm them as well.

I'd say that in the absence of sky going bust, which isn't likely, the PL is pretty secure over the medium term anyhow. Individual clubs on the other hand, are at the mercies and whims of their owners. There is no sign of Abramovich getting bored with Chelsea, but if it were to happen, or if he lost a load of money through some other means, things could get messy quickly.

On Liverpool I can see the need for prudence, but at the end of the day, big money sponsorships won't keep finding us simply because we are Liverpool. If there is not success or increased profile on the pitch, we will not keep up commerically with the likes of Arsenal or Chelsea, much less gain on Utd. It is a delicate act, and I think the owners are nearly banking on a couple of the teams above us falling foul of FFP and us getting into the CL by default, which I can't see happening in the next couple of years at least.

LuckyLloyd

Dickerty wrote: »

Did you see any of the Asia tour coverage? We are adored by fans who have grown up with us winning NOTHING of note in the last 8 years. A few domestic cups yes, but that's all. These are not all in their 40s and 50s, they didn't grow up watching the 80s team sweeping all before them like me. But they still love the team, and they always will. It's not as short term fancy for them.

That is not to say we should take our time, but to suggest that struggling in 5/6/7th for a few seasons will see our support or commercial relevence massively wain is simple not true.

8 years ago we won the Champions League. 6 years ago we competed in the Champions League final. 4 years ago we competed for the league down to the wire playing some scintillating football (for those thinking we played well once or twice last year, get out the tape of the second leg versus Madrid in 2009).

It's 4 years of relative irrelevance. Another half decade and we're ****ed basically.

LuckyLloyd

RasTa wrote: »

Or you could say you finished 11 points behind them and haven't finished above them since 08/09.

I can only imagine the mileage you get from posts like that. 'Yeah, we finished 11 points behind but we scored more goals and conceeded less, haha!' Jaysus, embarrassing.

Kess73

Dickerty wrote: »

So they are a better unit in defense, and we are better in attack (with Soldado and without Bale?), then if we sign a player to work with Lucas and Stevie, are we back on terms?

And if we sign Papa, are we ahead?

Just trying to point out that we are talking about single players making a big impact...

Would want to be an amazing midfielder to be able to bring our centre of midfield back to equal terms to that of Spurs. Would need to be bringing in the likes of Vidal or better, and we missed out on him during the summer we were linked with him when we got Henderson for £16m whilst Vidal left Germany for under £10m.


Spurs right now most likely have Sandro, Paulinho, and Dembele as their midfield trio.

Is there genuine creativity there? Yes
Genuine pace from one or more? Yes
Genuine steel? Yes
Mobility? Yes
Tempo setting? Yes
Ball retention? Yes


Then take Gerrard, Lucas and one of Allen or Henderson. As a unit our trio will be missing two or more of those qualities compared to what the Spurs trio offer.

I don't think any one midfielder that Liverpool could realistically get would be able to make up the shortfall, but getting a quality player in for midfield as well as strengthening other parts of our team would help close the gap on Spurs.

I don't actually think Gerrrard or Lucas would get into Spurs' midfield, because they don't really offer anything that would improve the Spurs' midfield as a unit imo. People could argue that as individuals they could offer something that Player X or Player Y does not offer, but in terms of adding to the unit they would take from what Spurs currently have imho.

Basically I think Spurs have been smarter in terms of matching up players to create playing units. We might have some better individual players than Spurs in some parts of the team, but I reckon have the superior playing units, units that are greater than the sum of their parts.

billy2012

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

8 years ago we won the Champions League. 6 years ago we competed in the Champions League final. 4 years ago we competed for the league down to the wire playing some scintillating football (for those thinking we played well once or twice last year, get out the tape of the second leg versus Madrid in 2009).

It's 4 years of relative irrelevance. Another half decade and we're ****ed basically.

I was there What a night!!!!!:D:D:D:D Still watch all the videos on my phone every now and again.

LuckyLloyd

billy2012 wrote: »

I was there What a night!!!!!:D:D:D:D Still watch all the videos on my phone every now and again.

That was football, wow. Aggressive, high paced, skillful and utterly ruthless. Blew them away that night.

Torres and Suarez aside, have we ever spent 20+ on a 'great' player, how often have we spent that sort of money, at all?

Johnson @ 17ish million is another big money signing that could be classified a success.


We've generally signed players for modest fees, even some of our greatest players over the last decade; Alonso, Reina, Masch, Lucas, Kuyt, none of which cost us more than 10/11 million. Of course we've had plenty of duds in that time, but we've had great players, signed for (relative) pittance.

Coutinho and Sturridge most definitely appear to be a continuation of that trend. We'll find out about Alberto, Aspas and Mignolet as this season sails along.

I know money is becoming more essential as each week goes by, but I think we need to be less adamant about throwing 25/30 million at the first name we see, and just make sure that when we do spend our money, no matter how little or large an amount it is, we spend it with a modicum of sense.

I've seen people say we should sign Soldado, and if we didn't have Sturridge, I'd agree. But what do we want to do, sign Soldado, and stick Sturridge out right, and Suarez out left? Shoehorning great individuals into a starting eleven, simply doesn't equal a great team, the Galaticos were busy proving this a decade ago.

ush

Dickerty wrote: »

Did you see any of the Asia tour coverage? We are adored by fans who have grown up with us winning NOTHING of note in the last 8 years.

Can't rely on that continuing. It simply won't last. Even Man City and Chelsea will also have hoards of asian fans. People over there are gonna be picking winning teams to support. Once a brand gets a losing image, its gonna be hard to wash off the stain.

LuckyLloyd

Deleted User wrote: »

Torres and Suarez aside, have we ever spent 20+ on a 'great' player, how often have we spent that sort of money, at all?

Johnson @ 17ish million is another big money signing that could be classified a success.


We've generally signed players for modest fees, even some of our greatest players over the last decade; Alonso, Reina, Masch, Lucas, Kuyt, none of which cost us more than 10/11 million. Of course we've had plenty of duds in that time, but we've had great players, signed for (relative) pittance.

Coutinho and Sturridge most definitely appear to be a continuation of that trend. We'll find out about Alberto, Aspas and Mignolet as this season sails along.

I know money is becoming more essential as each week goes by, but I think we need to be less adamant about throwing 25/30 million at the first name we see, and just make sure that when we do spend our money, no matter how little or large an amount it is, we spend it with a modicum of sense.

I've seen people say we should sign Soldado, and if we didn't have Sturridge, I'd agree. But what do we want to do, sign Soldado, and stick Sturridge out right, and Suarez out left? Shoehorning great individuals into a starting eleven, simply doesn't equal a great team, the Galaticos we busy proving this a decade ago.

**** Sturridge if necessary. He can sit. Soldado far more accomplished and successful striker. Whatever it takes.

OwaynOTT

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

CL Qualification down to the, you know, last game of the season.

Yes, and we are improving in the league, slightly albeit, but improvement nonetheless. It takes a while to get back there without spending massive amounts and Spurs themselves have done the slowly slowly approach and are now competing for something 'meaningful'.
In our case though you would rather we lost a final and win a relatively pointless one over improvements in the league.
I can even recall you calling 4th place a hollow target before but when you want to put down our current system, it's used as a platitude for another team.

LuckyLloyd

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Yes, and we are improving in the league, slightly albeit, but improvement nonetheless. It takes a while to get back there without spending massive amounts and Spurs themselves have done the slowly slowly approach and are now competing for something 'meaningful'.
In our case though you would rather we lost a final and win a relatively pointless one over improvements in the league.
I can even recall you calling 4th place a hollow target before but when you want to put down our current system, it's used as a platitude for another team.

It is in the case of Arsenal who have been happy to do that and no more season in and season out. We're not even competing for that right now.

PRAF

5starpool wrote: »

This is something I had a post written out for before, but deleted most of it and just incorporated a bit of it in a wider post.

The inflation in transfer fees and wages over the last decade in particular has been spectacular, but just talking about England for a minute, it is not as easy to forsee a collapse in finances as it is in Spain. Spain is in real possibility of meltdown, and I saw somewhere that the government are hoping to force collective selling on them, which is the English model, rather than the individual selling rights at the moment which sees Barcelona take in more than the 3rd-8th teams combined and has most teams in crisis, and if the big 2 weren't being propped up, their debts would threaten to overwhelm them as well.

I'd say that in the absence of sky going bust, which isn't likely, the PL is pretty secure over the medium term anyhow. Individual clubs on the other hand, are at the mercies and whims of their owners. There is no sign of Abramovich getting bored with Chelsea, but if it were to happen, or if he lost a load of money through some other means, things could get messy quickly.

On Liverpool I can see the need for prudence, but at the end of the day, big money sponsorships won't keep finding us simply because we are Liverpool. If there is not success or increased profile on the pitch, we will not keep up commerically with the likes of Arsenal or Chelsea, much less gain on Utd. It is a delicate act, and I think the owners are nearly banking on a couple of the teams above us falling foul of FFP and us getting into the CL by default, which I can't see happening in the next couple of years at least.

Yes, Spain seems to be a more likely candidate for a blow up than England. However, I think the Sky thing isn't as secure as you may think. It's all predicated on there being hundreds of thousands (maybe even a couple of million) of subscribers willing to continue paying more and more to watch footie on tv. We have a prolonged recession in Europe, the demographics aren't great, there is increased competition from other sports, and so I'd question the long term sustainability of the sky model in its current form. Perhaps a collapse is unlikely but I doubt the next tv deal will be as lucrative.

In that context, I see the reasons why FSG want to build the club in a sustainable fashion. Ruling out spending 400m to increase the stadium to 15k seats makes sense on that basis. Being careful about transfers also makes sense.

I know it can be frustrating for the average fan who's seeing Real buy Bale for £85m or City splunking £100m already this window. However, I don't think we should jump into the fire just because they have.

Our immediate future is in getting more signings like Coutinho and Sturridge. Its about being patient, waiting for the right player at the right price, and doing a good deal for the club.

PRAF

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

**** Sturridge if necessary. He can sit. Soldado far more accomplished and successful striker. Whatever it takes.

11 goals and 5 assists in 16 games (according to Wiki). Why are you putting this guy on the bench again? Also, more than just goals, he has the pace to frighten defenders meaning they drop deeper and give the likes of Coutinho and Suarez more room to work in.

For me, building a great team is about identifying your weak points and adressing them first before you go strengthening the already strong areas.

We need another CB and another CM before we buy another striker IMO. The only reason I think we'd need a striker is if we decide that Borini isn't going to work out and we sell him and buy another striker to replace him.

Dickerty

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

**** Sturridge if necessary. He can sit. Soldado far more accomplished and successful striker. Whatever it takes.

Cracking attitude.

Soldado has only been accomplished and successful since leaving Real. At the age of 23. Same age as Sturridge when we signed him.

But by your rationale, spend €30M on a player who's already done it, to hell with the future (or loyalty or growth or trust) and then do it again in 3 years?

IK09

Soldado moving to Spurs is a real kidney shot for me. Always hoped to see him in a LFC jersey.

TBH i cant see Suarez moving, i never could...then again, i only gave up hope on Torres staying when that ridiculous bit came in from Chelsea.

I personally would rather have seen Soldado come to the club than Luis Alberto, Aspas and Toure combined. Im not saying it would solve our problems but it would at the very least given me some short term joy in the form of a quality signing while the other players developed.

There is probably no hope of Jackson Martinez coming to Anfield but he will be the player that i now hope to see coming to LFC. Highly unlikely i know, but I cant help but think...how long is it going to take to get 4th spot back. 3 more years? 4 more years? At the rate of development I see at the club right now, 4 years is not entirely unrealistic. I have yet to attend a CL game at Anfield and the prospect of having to wait that long to enjoy a European night is a depressing one.

We have seen quality being signed in the form of Sturridge, Coutinho, Suarez. And lets be honest, we knew they were quality, we knew they would fit into our starting XI and they have not only been our most influential signings but our most influential players, which for me last January was an indication of where we were as a club and where we wanted to be. I was sure that the trend of signing players that would directly effect our starting XI was going to continue. At this point it has not.

Rant over.

So constructively speaking there are players we need to progress this season. IMO a CB, LB, RWF, CAM(or ST), DMF(of the football playing type rather than as a breaker). That will directly effect our starting XI

Kyriakos - OK good.
RWF - ????
CAM or ST - ????
DMF - ???? (Alberto is for the future)
LB - Melgarejo? I know nothing about him TBH, is he the right competition for Enrique?
There are many players at the club that i see as surplus to requirements or that are not going to add to the starting XI, Downing, Kelly(i just dont get it), Coates, Allen, Borini, Spearing.

Now you can say that Aspas probably will at the start of the season have an effect, mainly due to injuries and suspensions, but is he competition for Suarez, Sturridge. IMO No. Is Alberto competition for Lucas, Henderson even Allen? again IMO no, not yet maybe some day he will be but not now. Toure is a quick fix and probably will start against Stoke. I like Toure. Seems like an honest gent.

I know im asking alot of questions here, without giving any answers but if you would, im asking for your opinions on who were should and could realistically sign in these positions.

ya ya i know TL;DR

5starpool

PRAF wrote: »

Yes, Spain seems to be a more likely candidate for a blow up than England. However, I think the Sky thing isn't as secure as you may think. It's all predicated on there being hundreds of thousands (maybe even a couple of million) of subscribers willing to continue paying more and more to watch footie on tv. We have a prolonged recession in Europe, the demographics aren't great, there is increased competition from other sports, and so I'd question the long term sustainability of the sky model in its current form. Perhaps a collapse is unlikely but I doubt the next tv deal will be as lucrative.

In that context, I see the reasons why FSG want to build the club in a sustainable fashion. Ruling out spending 400m to increase the stadium to 15k seats makes sense on that basis. Being careful about transfers also makes sense.

I know it can be frustrating for the average fan who's seeing Real buy Bale for £85m or City splunking £100m already this window. However, I don't think we should jump into the fire just because they have.

Our immediate future is in getting more signings like Coutinho and Sturridge. Its about being patient, waiting for the right player at the right price, and doing a good deal for the club.

It may not be, but this will be offset by selling the overseas rights which is an increasingly lucrative market. In previous seasons the domestic rights accounted for a huge % of the tv money to clubs, and while the new deal is bigger than any previous, the overseas sales have increased by far more and make up a much bigger % of the pie than previously. I don't think any sort of ceiling has been reached there, so this will almost certainly increase in the next negotiations, so even if the domestic rights market shrinks, and I'm not convinced it will, at least in any significant way, the shortfall will be more than made up for.

PRAF

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Compete or die. Another half decade like last season and a restructuring of the game won't matter. We'll be out of the conversation, with no top notch players and no ability to put financial prudence to work as our brand has lost relevance.

Sitting around throwing rocks at the excess of the big boys is a losing strategy. Get in the mixer or accept long term irrelevance.

Did you see what happened to the Irish banking system? How about our big property developers?

What you've said above is pretty close to what was being said in AIB, PTSB, BoI, Ulster Bank, EBS, and INBS around the time when Anglo were throwing tens of millions at any developer who knocked on their door.

When group think sets in, it can lead to disaster.

Anyone

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Compete or die. Another half decade like last season and a restructuring of the game won't matter. We'll be out of the conversation, with no top notch players and no ability to put financial prudence to work as our brand has lost relevance.

Sitting around throwing rocks at the excess of the big boys is a losing strategy. Get in the mixer or accept long term irrelevance.

Leeds and Blackburn tried that and look at them now.

Its not possible without a sugar daddy, so you may as well used to Liverpool as we are now.

Sappy404

SlickRic wrote: »

Spurs just burst even further out in front of us.

interesting that they didn't wait for a Bale sale to make that move.

Latest news is that they did. Deal agreed with Real, apparently north of £100m, now they've bought Soldado and will buy more before announcing the Bale deal. Do not be surprised if they go after Suarez.

PRAF wrote: »

**Warning - bit of a rant below!**

Does anyone else see the massive bubble that is happening in elite european football right now? Lets look at some of what's going on:
- The rich clubs getting richer
- Most of the European leagues becoming two or three horse races
- Ticket prices out of the reach of ordinary working class people
- Obscene wages with the gap between the elite players and the ordinary fan never being wider
- Ridiculous transfer fees that have little or no bearing on the economics of a deal (how can any player be worth £85m plus whatever wages you'll give him over 4 or 5 years of a contract?)
- Football clubs being used as vehicles for morally / legally dodgy owners to buy themselves some respectibility
- Unsustainable losses despite record revenues
- Worst of all, Sky Sports are looking for an extra €3 a month from my pocket

As per usual, the Germans are bucking the trend with things like fan ownership / involvement, reasonable ticket prices, etc. FFP and other initiatives (e.g. SoS) may also help buck the trend a little bit.

My question is whether we're just a couple of years away from a collapse of a major European club. In England you could argue that City and Chelsea are built on unsustainable business models (particularly City). In Spain, you could say that Barca and Real have rigged the tv deal so much that they are in danger of collapsing the whole league. In France, PSG and perhaps Monaco seem to be run in an unsustainable way as well.

I for one am glad that we have owners who see the madness of the above and are trying to build the club back up in a sustainable way

IMO we'll see a non-UEFA competition of European elite clubs announced in the next few years that won't be affected by FFP. The nouveau riche clubs, especially the French and Russian clubs that have spent arseloads in the last 2 seasons, haven't a hope of meeting FFP requirements. I know Oliver Kay at The Times was duped with a story like this recently, but it makes so much sense given the increase in spending.

PRAF

IK09 wrote: »

So constructively speaking there are players we need to progress this season. IMO a CB, LB, RWF, CAM(or ST), DMF(of the football playing type rather than as a breaker). That will directly effect our starting XI

Kyriakos - OK good.
RWF - ????
CAM or ST - ????
DMF - ???? (Alberto is for the future)
LB - Melgarejo? I know nothing about him TBH, is he the right competition for Enrique?

I think Papa or similar (plus Toure and the continued rise of Wisdom) could solve our CB problems.

I don't see Enrique as being a massive weakness at all. However, I think he could do with more competition than he's getting from Robinson. In that respect, I'll trust the clubs judgement in bringing in cover / compeition for that spot in the team.

I also don't see RWF as a priority. Sterling and Ibe have been very good in pre-season and can play there. Aspas (and Downing) can play also there. If we play Sturridge up front and Coutinho on the left, then Suarez can play there too.

However, if Borini is deemed surplus to requirements, we could probably do with a replacement for him.

In midfield, my pref is for a big, athletic midfielder who can do it all (defend, attack, lead, etc.). Someone who will add to the mix we have in midfield where it is just a bit too samey, samey for me right now. I'd like Diame in there

IK09

PRAF wrote: »

I don't see Enrique as being a massive weakness at all. However, I think he could do with more competition than he's getting from Robinson. In that respect, I'll trust the clubs judgement in bringing in cover / compeition for that spot in the team.

I agree, the only real threat of Enrique losing his spot is if Johnson was switched to LB. Which isnt good enough.

PRAF wrote: »

I also don't see RWF as a priority. Sterling and Ibe have been very good in pre-season and can play there. Aspas (and Downing) can play also there. If we play Sturridge up front and Coutinho on the left, then Suarez can play there too.

I was really impressed by Sterling at the start of the season, and, really impressed with Ibe towards the end. But is having 2 young "undeveloped" players to sort you out for a season in a position is unpredicatable and dangerous. IMO Downing is simply surplus.

PRAF wrote: »

However, if Borini is deemed surplus to requirements, we could probably do with a replacement for him.

Imminent

PRAF wrote: »

In midfield, my pref is for a big, athletic midfielder who can do it all (defend, attack, lead, etc.). Someone who will add to the mix we have in midfield where it is just a bit too samey, samey for me right now. I'd like Diame in there

I really like Diame, pure all rounder, good in the air, on the ground, can pass, tackle, move. However, i feel what we need in that position is a player that can control a ball full stop. No matter what the circumstances of the ball played to him, who is an exceptional passer and fits the system

5starpool

If Liverpool won't sell to Arsenal, why would we sell to Spurs?

a. Levy won't offer £55m anyhow.
b. Not CL club for him.

At no price they would be willing to pay should this be considered.

Kess73

IK09 wrote: »

Soldado moving to Spurs is a real kidney shot for me. Always hoped to see him in a LFC jersey.

TBH i cant see Suarez moving, i never could...then again, i only gave up hope on Torres staying when that ridiculous bit came in from Chelsea.

I personally would rather have seen Soldado come to the club than Luis Alberto, Aspas and Toure combined. Im not saying it would solve our problems but it would at the very least given me some short term joy in the form of a quality signing while the other players developed.

There is probably no hope of Jackson Martinez coming to Anfield but he will be the player that i now hope to see coming to LFC. Highly unlikely i know, but I cant help but think...how long is it going to take to get 4th spot back. 3 more years? 4 more years? At the rate of development I see at the club right now, 4 years is not entirely unrealistic. I have yet to attend a CL game at Anfield and the prospect of having to wait that long to enjoy a European night is a depressing one.

We have seen quality being signed in the form of Sturridge, Coutinho, Suarez. And lets be honest, we knew they were quality, we knew they would fit into our starting XI and they have not only been our most influential signings but our most influential players, which for me last January was an indication of where we were as a club and where we wanted to be. I was sure that the trend of signing players that would directly effect our starting XI was going to continue. At this point it has not.

Rant over.

So constructively speaking there are players we need to progress this season. IMO a CB, LB, RWF, CAM(or ST), DMF(of the football playing type rather than as a breaker). That will directly effect our starting XI

Kyriakos - OK good.
RWF - ????
CAM or ST - ????
DMF - ???? (Alberto is for the future)
LB - Melgarejo? I know nothing about him TBH, is he the right competition for Enrique?
There are many players at the club that i see as surplus to requirements or that are not going to add to the starting XI, Downing, Kelly(i just dont get it), Coates, Allen, Borini, Spearing.

Now you can say that Aspas probably will at the start of the season have an effect, mainly due to injuries and suspensions, but is he competition for Suarez, Sturridge. IMO No. Is Alberto competition for Lucas, Henderson even Allen? again IMO no, not yet maybe some day he will be but not now. Toure is a quick fix and probably will start against Stoke. I like Toure. Seems like an honest gent.

I know im asking alot of questions here, without giving any answers but if you would, im asking for your opinions on who were should and could realistically sign in these positions.

ya ya i know TL;DR

Alberto is never going to be competition for Lucas, Allen etc because he is not a deep lying midfielder. He plays in the final third.


As for who we could get for a CM role, well there are a lot of good players out there who would fit a passing system but who would be able to help the team when on the back foot as well.

Some different qualities from the list I am going to make but the likes of Banega, Fer, Bender (Lars or Sven), Medel, Gustavo (Bayern version not Barca B ), and Strootman are the types that I think could add a hell of a lot to us in the centre and who are the types of player who add more to the team as a cog than they would as outstanding individuals.


As for your question on RWF, and ST or AM. If Suarez stays then I think we need one of LWF or AM rather than needing a ST or RWF. As the squad stands right now we have a number of players that can play in the RWF slot in Suarez, Sturridge, Aspas, Alberto, and Downing.

Would sooner see the LWF or AM slot strengthened (depending on which of those positions Coutinho will not be in and also assuming that the CM position will not be strengthened with Rodgers thinking that Gerrard/Lucas/Allen/Henderson is a good enough quartet) as I think that would provide more balance to what we currently have.

Eriksen or Wijnaldum would be my choices for the AM slot. Young, highly talented, creative, mobile and capable of interchanging with the wide attackers. Belhanda would have been on my list had it not been for Kiev snapping him up for €10m thanks to his contract being run down.


For the RCB role I think Papa would still be my first choice, but would also be happy to see any of the likes of Godin, Alderweireld, Rami, Dede, or Matip come in. Benatia is now missing from my lists as he moved from Udinese this summer.

NEDDURC

In my mind Spurs needed to sign a good striker even if Bale was staying as Defoe and Adabayor may still leave the club and have proved not to be prolific. I think they still probably need to sign another striker.

I think losing Bale will have a major impact on how they play. It may take them time to settle down this season. If they use the Bale money and sign another 2/3 top players then I'd be worried but I think losing Bale is massive for them and Soldado isn't really a replacement.