Noonan: Property Tax wont be used for Local Services

knipex

xXxkorixXx wrote: »

me and my hubby (admiralofthefleet who used to post on here) payed our property tax for this year but they can take us to jail if they think we will be paying it next year.

Bad news. You will pay it even if you don't want to. They can make your employer take it from your pay, take it from your benefits and I think even take it from your bank account.

Ray Palmer

zerks wrote: »

Matt Cooper made a valid point on yesterday's Last Word,he stated that the law seemed unable to go after the rich who were corrupt and ruined the country and all we get are tribunals meanwhile at the drop of a hat Revenue can pursue the ordinary people by any means possible for the property tax.

Amazing a process that is easy to implement gets done yet one that had little legislation and was self regulated can't bring charges up. Wait not amazing at all common bloody sense.

They have brought charges against people it just takes time. He was just spouting populous nonsense he knows better about.

People's behaviour on the initial tax made the government bring in a system next to impossible to avoid. You might as well argue the banker got away with this and I still pay taxes on my salary, it's nonsense

xXxkorixXx

knipex wrote: »

Bad news. You will pay it even if you don't want to. They can make your employer take it from your pay, take it from your benefits and I think even take it from your bank account.

how is that legal?

corroonb

Is anyone really surprised that politicians have lied through their teeth once again? I think Fine Gael may actually be worse at this than Fianna Fail. They act a little bit too self-righteous for such lying scum.

Banjo String

corroonb wrote: »

Is anyone really surprised that politicians have lied through their teeth once again? I think Fine Gael may actually be worse at this than Fianna Fail. They act a little bit too self-righteous for such lying scum.

Local elections on the way.

Get them out to fcuk.

keeponhurling

twinytwo wrote: »

Iv said it a 100 times before.... they only way things will will change in this country is when people get off their asses.

The government will listen when they are dragged kicking and screaming from the dail, burnt out of their homes etc.

Protests are of limited use as its hard to tell how representative any protest is of the overall population.

We had an election since the bank guarantee and bail out fiasco, and Fine Gael and Labour got a strong majority. We chose this government.

corroonb

keeponhurling wrote: »

We had an election since the bank guarantee and bail out fiasco, and Fine Gael and Labour got a strong majority. We chose this government.

We chose this government based on lies. Those of us who voted for Labour were pretty comprehensively deceived. That won't be happening with Labour again however.

Ray Palmer

xXxkorixXx wrote: »

how is that legal?

They write the laws. Kind of funny that you would wonder how this is legal while advocating breaking the law:rolleyes:

bumper234

corroonb wrote: »

We chose this government based on lies. Those of us who voted for Labour were pretty comprehensively deceived. That won't be happening with Labour again however.

This time 2 years

The green party?? WHO ???

The progressive Democrats ??? WHO ???

The Labour Party ??? Who ???

bbam

The Shinners must be rubbing their hands at this latest deceit by Lab/FG.
Surely this just plays into their hands as the only alternative to either a FF or FG government..

I used to think that it would be a bad thing... but now I'm thinking they might have the balls to actually reform this corrupt country. And sher... we may as well be lied to by them as anyone else !!

Leslie91

SamHall wrote: »

Local elections on the way.

Get them out to fcuk.

And replace them with what?............ Fianna Fail/Sinn Fein........?

Even bigger crooks.

Politics is rotten in Ireland full stop, it will NEVER change.

Akrasia

flutered wrote: »

the current mrs flutered is demanding to know why flutered is sitting in front of the lappy giggling and smirking like a refugee from a home for the bewildered.

I'd say she'll be the 'former' mrs flutered just as soon as she finds out you're describing her as the 'current' mrs flutered

keeponhurling

corroonb wrote: »

We chose this government based on lies. Those of us who voted for Labour were pretty comprehensively deceived. That won't be happening with Labour again however.

People who ran on a "burn the bond holders" stance were mostly ridiculed.

Hence the government has to come up with ways to increase income, such as create new taxes

Mrs Garth Brooks

Since property taxes aren't used for local services, do we now need a proper property tax?

bumper234

HardLuckWoman wrote: »

Since property taxes aren't used for local services, do we now need a proper property tax?

You already have it they just choose not to call it that.

squod

zerks wrote: »

Matt Cooper made a valid point on yesterday's Last Word,he stated that the law seemed unable to go after the rich who were corrupt and ruined the country and all we get are tribunals meanwhile at the drop of a hat Revenue can pursue the ordinary people by any means possible for the property tax.

Revenue should talk to that ''ray Palmer'' lad. Jayzus, shure he'd sort them out.

Ray Palmer

squod wrote: »

Revenue should talk to that ''ray Palmer'' lad. Jayzus, shure he'd sort them out.

I used to work there:P

knipex

xXxkorixXx wrote: »

how is that legal?

It was part of the bill that introduced the local property tax..

Revenue has allways been able to persue you for unpaid taxes but for the LPT they have extra powers....

squod

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Kind of funny that you would wonder how this is legal while advocating breaking the law:rolleyes:

You're advocating breaking the law. Playing along with a scam? Being an accomplice?

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I used to work there:P

Jayzus. No wonder you're so pushed about it. Want me to pay your pension?

Ray Palmer

squod wrote: »

You're advocating breaking the law. Playing along with a scam? Being an accomplice?

I never advocated breaking the law.

It is worse than that I implemented the system to take it from the dole too. I am one of those highly paid consultants the government hires.

Hope that makes you hate me more.

cd07

They are the fcuking scum of the earth. We need to stop talking about this **** people and get our ass into town and make the horrible fcukers listen greek/french style. It sickens me to the core and whats worse is that theres no alternative to them except maybe shane ross who aint never going to get anywhere on his own. The country is fcuked.

T-Maxx

squod wrote: »

You're advocating breaking the law. Playing along with a scam? Being an accomplice?



Jayzus. No wonder you're so pushed about it. Want me to pay your pension?

Give it a rest Squid.

You lost.

Get over it.

squod

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It is worse than that I implemented the system to take it from the dole too. I am one of those highly paid consultants the government hires.

Hope that makes you hate me more.

I don't hate anyone. Plenty of us can make a few bob without having to resort to scamming people from their money to fund mass fraud on their own people. Jayzus, if that's what it's come to for you; you have my pity.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I never advocated breaking the law.

You just did FFS.

relax carry on

squod wrote: »

You're advocating breaking the law. Playing along with a scam? Being an accomplice?

If you have evidence of a law being broken or an illegal act (scam) being perpetrated then please highlight what law(s) you feel are being broken.
If you are just ranting then fair enough

Ray Palmer

squod wrote: »

I don't hate anyone. Plenty of us can make a few bob without having to resort to scamming people from their money to fund mass fraud on their own people. Jayzus, if that's what it's come to for you; you have my pity.

Name one scam I have done? You'll find the state has not broken any laws on this matter. You are blaming me for assisting the state to enforcing the laws and saying I am breaking them? I personally don't blame or criticise people who work for the state for the decisions of the government. It is an idiotic argument. Blaming me is like blaming a stationary shop for providing the pens

You may not think you hate anybody but you are expressing a lot of anger and directing it my way. Not much difference

squod wrote: »

You just did FFS.

When did I? If you think I have said so you can post it up.

knipex

cd07 wrote: »

They are the fcuking scum of the earth. We need to stop talking about this **** people and get our ass into town and make the horrible fcukers listen greek/french style. It sickens me to the core and whats worse is that theres no alternative to them except maybe shane ross who aint never going to get anywhere on his own. The country is fcuked.

Ah yes. Greece style.. and the wonderful results that course of action has had over there....

Fact one : Country spends way more money every day than it takes in.

Fact two : We need to spend less and take in more...

It does not matter who you put in government those two facts remain just that facts.... The detail on how you close the gap between spending and income may vary from party to party but the gap has to be closed..

Banjo String

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Do you own a home in both places?

I inherited my grandmothers house, I have a family member staying there (rent free)

Ray Palmer wrote: »

If you can get paid via the UK tax system why are you not already? It is less tax, seems very strange you haven't done this.

I bought a home iun 06/07 and have worked for a company based here from 05-07. Never really bothered me tbh.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

When I say strange I mean highly unlikely that you would wait till now to do this.

b
The Govt here haven't attempted to forcibly take money for a non existent LPT until now.
When they start sabre rattling at my home, I can fight back by the one option I have (though you said its unavoidale)

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You can't sell your home in the Republic with outstanding household charges. A person can't inherit it without paying them either.

My home is worth somewhere in the region of 50% of the mortgage on it.

It aint for sale for the forseeable future. :cool:

Ray Palmer wrote: »

They can of course just go down the traditional route and issue a summons. You going to ignore that?

Summons for a couple of hundred euro?
I'm hardly up there with Al Capone tbh.

Sh1tbag OToole

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I never advocated breaking the law.

It is worse than that I implemented the system to take it from the dole too. I am one of those highly paid consultants the government hires.

Hope that makes you hate me more.

is it written in COBOL by any chance?

Ray Palmer

SamHall wrote: »

I inherited my grandmothers house, I have a family member staying there (rent free)

I bought a home iun 06/07 and have worked for a company based here from 05-07. Never really bothered me tbh.

b
The Govt here haven't attempted to forcibly take money for a non existent LPT until now.
When they start sabre rattling at my home, I can fight back by the one option I have (though you said its unavoidale)


My home is worth somewhere in the region of 50% of the mortgage on it.

It aint for sale for the forseeable future. :cool:


Summons for a couple of hundred euro?
I'm hardly up there with Al Capone tbh.

So you pay rates in NI but won't pay them here. You could pay lower taxes in the NI but it never bothered you but now so outraged you are going to change your official location. The amount was much more than the property tax but the fact you have to pay the tax at some point anyway is what has now driven you to change your address? Is there anything indicating your republic address is your primary such as a wife,child etc..?

It just doesn't sound believable you do understand that?:o

The amount is not really the issue and what do they do for TV licenses? They bring people to court via a summons and do put people in jail. Considering the effort they put into this and changed TV licensing do you think they will just forget it?:eek:

Banjo String

Ray Palmer wrote: »

So you pay rates in NI but won't pay them here. You could pay lower taxes in the NI but it never bothered you but now so outraged you are going to change your official location. The amount was much more than the property tax but the fact you have to pay the tax at some point anyway is what has now driven you to change your address? Is there anything indicating your republic address is your primary such as a wife,child etc..?

It just doesn't sound believable you do understand that?:o

The amount is not really the issue and what do they do for TV licenses? They bring people to court via a summons and do put people in jail. Considering the effort they put into this and changed TV licensing do you think they will just forget it?:eek:

I don't pay rates in the north. The family member living there does (tenants are liable)

They do however get a wide range of services actually provided for their rates. We however will get none. In fact it could be argued we're getting less.

Why do you think I'd pay less tax in the north? Im completely open t correction here, but tax rates are lower here. Though we do have usc.

It's no big deal to me where I get my income taxed tbh. Wether or not you believe me, I spend one of every two weeks working in either jurisdiction.

Sometimes longer In either jurisdiction.

Like your summons analogy its not the amount that bothers me, it's the lying abd conniving and the constant targeting of one class to protect the other. It's getting out of control in this country.

Geuze

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

I remember a time when all the property tax proponents were so adamant it wouldbe spent on local services. Where are they all gone?

Where are they all gone? Not in this thread owning up that they were wrong anyway

I am a consistent supporter of local property taxes.

I was always clear that the LPT income is not extra income to the LA, so there would be no extra services.

This is because the central govt grant to the LA is being reduced by the same amount.

So say 500m is paid in LPT. All the LA do receive that 500m, but the central Govt grant to the LA is cut by 500m.

So LA finances should be unchanged, in that sense. Central grant income is replaced by local taxes.

Extra tax paid, but no extra LA services. Central Govt deficit falls, and they borrow less.

Geuze

Ray Palmer wrote: »

But it is how some work and pretty much how it was sold here. It was also meant to be a household charge but was turned into a property tax.

I don't think anybody is really going to be surprised if they don't keep it within the counties it is collected. It does however show it as a very unfair system where people paying the most for what is classed as payment for local services doesn't go to local service. Then being charged more than the people receiving the value from your contribution.

If Laois collects 50m, that doesn't mean that Laois gets exactly 50m.

But if the total LPT is 500m, than all LA will receive 500m.

There are cross-subsidies between counties, as exist already.

I think counties keep 75% - 80% min?

Some counties will receive more than they collect, and vice versa.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Feathers

I don't know why they don't just say it's ringfenced & reduce the subsidy coming from central funds — or does the household charge bring in more than the cost of combined schools, libraries, street lighting, etc, etc? Doubt it.

DanWall

They are encouraging a black economy if they a going to take it off self employed, if they have no earnings, the tax cannot take it

washman3

Have any of the cheerleaders of this tax arrived on this thread yet.??
Almost 140 posts and little or no sign of the usual suspects.
Maybe they are all away on holidays with the Government.!!

Christ the Redeemer

This country is just another cash generator for international bankers now. Do not expect anything and you won't be disapointed.

bumper234

washman3 wrote: »

Have any of the cheerleaders of this tax arrived on this thread yet.??
Almost 140 posts and little or no sign of the usual suspects.
Maybe they are all away on holidays with the Government.!!

It's hard for some to admit they are wrong. They deserve pity not scorn

seamus

washman3 wrote: »

Have any of the cheerleaders of this tax arrived on this thread yet.??
Almost 140 posts and little or no sign of the usual suspects.

I'm sure they will appear whenever anyone actually posts any evidence that the thread title has any basis in reality.

140 posts and not a single person has posted any substantial part of the article

Gloomtastic!

DoF are saying otherwise but to be honest after the Anglo CFD letter they seem to say whatever they like and to hell with the truth!

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/property-tax-4-1008775-Jul2013/

I think people are just pretending to be surprised, at this stage.

Why is the word LOCAL in the official title of this tax?

LPT - Local Property Tax

Chips Lovell

Quelle surprise. Looks like the Mail were spinning it. Finance just released this:

• None of the funds collected though the Local Property tax have gone towards our bailout debt nor will it be handed to bank bondholders. Any statement to the contrary is inaccurate.
• From the 1st of January 2014 the Minister for Finance will pay the Local Property Tax into the Local Government Fund and will be used to fund local services – this provision was including in the Local Property Tax Act first published on the 14th of December and debated in the Oireachtas in December 2012.
• The Government has also announced its intention that 80% of the local property tax will be retained in the local authority area it is raised to fund local services in the area.
• In 2013, the allocation to the Local Government Fund was decided at the start of the year and there is no shortfall in the Local Government Fund.

Mr. G

So tell us when we're paying it that its for local services, and then say nope its not.. "sorry!"

I kinda knew the LPT was never going to go into local services anyway. Not surprised at all to be honest.

squod

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Quelle surprise. Looks like the Mail were spinning it. Finance just released this:

Whos the more reputable source, The department of Quinns contracts for difference Finance or the Daily Fail?

shruikan2553

None of the funds collected though the Local Property tax have gone towards our bailout debt nor will it be handed to bank bondholders. Any statement to the contrary is inaccurate.

So instead of us giving them money to be handed to pay off the debt we give it to the council who get less funding from the government so they can hand money over to pay for the debt.

Banjo String

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Quelle surprise. Looks like the Mail were spinning it. Finance just released this:

They wouldn't lie.

Would they?

So where have the LPT collected in 2013 gone???

From the 1st of January 2014 the Minister for Finance will pay the Local Property Tax into the Local Government Fund and will be used to fund local services – this provision was including in the Local Property Tax Act first published on the 14th of December and debated in the Oireachtas in December 2012.

In 2013, the allocation to the Local Government Fund was decided at the start of the year and there is no shortfall in the Local Government Fund.

Phill Ewinn

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

So where have the LPT collected in 2013 gone???

From the 1st of January 2014 the Minister for Finance will pay the Local Property Tax into the Local Government Fund and will be used to fund local services – this provision was including in the Local Property Tax Act first published on the 14th of December and debated in the Oireachtas in December 2012.

In 2013, the allocation to the Local Government Fund was decided at the start of the year and there is no shortfall in the Local Government Fund.

Was there a shortfall before the tax was introduced?

Phoebas

squod wrote: »

Whos the more reputable source, The department of Quinns contracts for difference Finance or the Daily Fail?

Only a complete idiot would take as fact the Daily Mail proporting to represent what the official position is over an actual official statement from the Department (not to mention what the legislation says).

An idiot or a politically motivated spinner willing to use any source, however suspect, to propogate misinformation.