Substitution query.

One shot on kill

Well lads yet another one.

I dropped in a substitution for my .22 6 weeks ago and still noting. I rang the FO a couple of times for him to tell me its still on the supers desk for this and that reason. I was under the impression a substitution was in and around the two week mark. Or is that a myth.

Is there anything I can do now without cause I g touch hastle because to be fair the FO is fair to me with everything else.

Glenbulldog

The brother is in the same boat as yourself he's on the 4 week mark

clivej

My understanding is that a sub does not need to go before the Super again as he had already granted the license in the first place.

The new details only need to get input into the system, by the FO, and the new license would get reprinted and posted off.

Last one I did took from 8pm Wednesday night and I had the new license in through my letter box Friday morning

One shot on kill

Another phone call so.

That was quick Clive holy jasus. You must live beside the station with the post office on the other side.

clivej

One shot on kill wrote: »

Another phone call so.

That was quick Clive holy jasus. You must live beside the station with the post office on the other side.

No post office needed as no $$$$$ to pay for a sub.

My FO put it into the system on Wednesday night, was reprinted and posted the next working day.

This is how the system should work, as it was intended too, it's just most Garda stations just can't get it together.

One shot on kill

They posted the latter out to you. That's what I was messing about the postman didn't have far to go.

Cass

One shot on kill wrote: »

Or is that a myth..

It says 14 days, but that can be quicker or in some cases a lot longer. However it is meant to be done within the 14 day time frame.

clivej wrote: »

My understanding is that a sub does not need to go before the Super again as he had already granted the license in the first place.

As it's an FCA1 the Super (or whomever is acting on his behalf) must sign off on it. It is a new license regardless of it being called a substitution.

The new details only need to get input into the system, by the FO, and the new license would get reprinted and posted off.

After the Super has signed off on it. If the FO prints it off and has has the Super sign it later (because he knows you) then all the better.

Last one I did took from 8pm Wednesday night and I had the new license in through my letter box Friday morning

I've had some turn around in 3 days. One time when i handed in the FCA1 my FO said to hang on for a minute, and he nipped upstairs, got the Super to sign it, came back down, put it into PULSE and i had it two days later.



My last sub took 8 weeks. No Super in Laois, Tullamore, etc and it ended up being signed by an Inspector in Mullingar. This meant the sub was handed into my local station, sat there for a while then sent to Portlaoise, sat there a while, then sent to Mullingar, sat there a while, was signed off on, and then done the return journey.

One shot on kill

Rang the FO there today.

Basically he said I may wait it has t been signed and he is going on holidays for the next three weeks.

Lucky me I suppose.

BillBen

It amazes me how long it takes for substitutions and new applacations in different
districts. I subbed a pistol 2 months ago and it took 2 days. The F/O changed it on pluse on the spot. It also took me six weeks to get a restricted licence for a .38 marlin. It's absolutely ridiculous.

One shot on kill

I had the license for the 243 back in less than 3 weeks all my renewal were about the same.
But this time god only knows what the story is.

I wonder could I ring the supers office myself. Or is there even any point

Mauser 308

One shot on kill wrote: »

I had the license for the 243 back in less than 3 weeks all my renewal were about the same.
But this time god only knows what the story is.

I wonder could I ring the supers office myself. Or is there even any point

Would they take the call ?
I have a substitution in since early June, and rang the FO yesterday. He told me to expect to wait another 6 to 8 weeks :mad:. He was a sound lad and all, but essentially said there was a massive backlog in Mullingar and that I picked a bad year to change my gun, as it was a renewal year. I pointed out it was only a like for like sub. But he said all applications subs and new requests are treated the same. He was quite open, and told me there are hundreds of applications sitting with the super for sign off.
Going by his advise, I wont have a gun for the 1st September. And also missing out on pigeons on the corn at the min.
I honestly believe I will never change a gun within 6 months of a season ever again as this constantly happens.

Cass

Mauser 308 wrote: »

But he said all applications subs and new requests are treated the same.

I was told the opposite.

Renewals are getting priority as they are firearms already in people's possession so they want them done first. Then new applications and subs are being done after.

One shot on kill

Ah ye infairness they always take the calls if they are there. I never felt like I was been messed around that way to be fair.

Lads I'm going spare still no sign.

BattleCorp

Cass wrote: »

I was told the opposite.

Renewals are getting priority as they are firearms already in people's possession so they want them done first. Then new applications and subs are being done after.

I was told the same, that renewals are getting priority over new applications.

Mauser 308

BattleCorp wrote: »

I was told the same, that renewals are getting priority over new applications.

If that's the case then I wont have a gun for 1st September:mad:
F*** it I am never changing a gun again...:(

Cass

From having subs done in a few days to having to wait over 2 months is a pain in the ass and a complete farce which flies in the face of the guidelines that are so often used to beat us with.

I have two in at the moment with a third on the way next week . My FO is on the ball and had his end done within a day, but it's the final signature i'm always left waiting on. Hoping it's quicker this time round.

deeksofdoom

I just put a sub in today on a new Browning Maxus I hope the feckin thing doesn't take 2 months:(:(:(

One shot on kill

Hopefully not best of luck with it.

insignia33

I will have been waiting 1 month exactly this friday for my own sub.

Im a bit reluctant to call up and start asking questions just incase they take it wrong. But then again, Id really like my gun before the 1st. I cant see me getting it at this stage though as I still have to get it imported (more paperwork) after I get the licence/sub back.

One shot on kill

Call into see the FO and explain your situation to him. And you really appriate an update.

zlezlius

Lads just jumping in to this thread because Im on the same boat: applied for my deer rifle substitution at the end of May, still nothing. Mine is the same as Mauser's 308 in Mullingar Garda Station, so loosing hope to have it for the 1st at this stage...

Now, my question is do you or do you not have to leave in your gun with RFD when you applying for substitution. Because had couple subs done before with different RFDs and never had to leave in the gun untill I was collecting new one. This RFD that Im getting my rifle from asked me to bring in my rifle before he can sign on my substitution form. I thought what a hell at the time, more than three months should be enough for substitution, but now...
So whos wrong and whos right here? like, technicaly I still have licence for the rifle that is sitting on RFDs shelf and probably will be in September, instead of me enjoing hunting, untill I get licence for the new one approved?! When!!??

One shot on kill

The couple of guns I changed I had to leave in my original one. I presume its payment/deposit for the gun he is selling you. Also it will ensure you not going to be hanging around.

Cass

zlezlius wrote: »

Now, my question is do you or do you not have to leave in your gun with RFD when you applying for substitution. Because had couple subs done before with different RFDs and never had to leave in the gun untill I was collecting new one.

From a license point of view you can hold onto the gun until your sub license comes through as the old license will remain valid for 2 weeks after the sub goes through to allow for change of mind, problems, delays, etc.

No dealer i've ever dealt with demanded the rifle before signing off on. However i always drop in the rifle because when a dealer does a deal with ya he gives you a price based on the condition of the gun at that moment. if you go out shooting, and mark or damage the gun then go back when the license comes through the gun is not the same as what the original deal/offer was.

So in most cases i think it's a way to safeguard "their property". For example i'm just back from my local RFD. I dropped in my rifle as i've a deal done. I'll be giving in the subs later on, but i now have a note from the dealer to say the gun is stored with him (which makes the Gardaí happy), he knows the rifle cannot get damaged as it's stored in his place, and he can advertise it while he is waiting to see if i get my license for the new rifle.

I'm in a decent position in that i have the Remmy 308 for the first, but even if i did not i'd still do it this way as it's easiest, and frankly i agree with the concept of "if the gun is stored it cannot get damaged, and put the deal at riskl".

zlezlius

Thanks for reply Cass.
Okay, didn't know that the licence after substitution has been approved still valid for two weeks. I wonder is it written somewhere in a legal guidelines? You see I'm not even trading in that gun to him against the new one. My friend is buying it of me if he gets deer licence approved(waiting on it at the moment), if he doesn't I'll be selling it myself. RFD is only holding on to it untill things will move for my friend, so thats not the case where he's trying to protect his good.
See, his point was that the minute I'll get licence approved for the new gun, the old licence becomes invalid, therefore ill be in the possesion of unlicenced firearm. So to prevent that happening he wanted my rifle left with him. Same happened to my friend dealing with the same RFD. Dont want to mentioned RFD's name, he's dead sound, its just the way he goes about substitutions.
But looking at the things here and what you saying here, I could still use my rifle untill i collect the new one so? Maybe RFD wasnt aware of that?
I have to get on to him if I get an official statement saying about old licence being valid for two weeks or at least untill new gun will be collected after substitution was approved.
I might be still with a rifle for the 1st:D Thanks for good news!

Cass

zlezlius wrote: »

Thanks for reply Cass.
Okay, didn't know that the licence after substitution has been approved still valid for two weeks. I wonder is it written somewhere in a legal guidelines?

I don't know but i'll definitely look.

I know this to be the case as i've done well over a dozen subs in the last 3 years. On 3 occasions the FO's of the lads buying the gun directly form me rang me because when they processed the FCA1 for the buyers they seen my name still on the gun (on PULSE) even though my sub had gone through. It was at this point the FO's told me that the old licenses, even when changed on PULSE, stay "valid" for up to two weeks after. I assumed it was for change of mind, etc. but maybe it's simply a glitch or feature of the PULSE system.

You see I'm not even trading in that gun to him against the new one. My friend is buying it of me if he gets deer licence approved(waiting on it at the moment), if he doesn't I'll be selling it myself. RFD is only holding on to it untill things will move for my friend, so thats not the case where he's trying to protect his good.

I understand.

I've sold privately (without RFD) but lately i've noticed my FO asking for the gun to be sold through or stored with an RFD. It's not legally necessary, but to keep him happy, help the application and it doesn't bother me to do it, i agree.

See, his point was that the minute I'll get licence approved for the new gun, the old licence becomes invalid, therefore ill be in the possesion of unlicenced firearm. So to prevent that happening he wanted my rifle left with him. Same happened to my friend dealing with the same RFD. Dont want to mentioned RFD's name, he's dead sound, its just the way he goes about substitutions.

I've sold three guns myself without an RFD. The process is no more complicated that using an RFD. Why your RFD is demanding that the gun be stored is an odd one. However if it gets the sale going, and you only miss a couple of days to a week of the season then why not.

But looking at the things here and what you saying here, I could still use my rifle untill i collect the new one so? Maybe RFD wasnt aware of that?
I have to get on to him if I get an official statement saying about old licence being valid for two weeks or at least untill new gun will be collected after substitution was approved.
I might be still with a rifle for the 1st:D Thanks for good news!

Please do not take what i've said as 100% bullet proof/legal. Even if it were the RFD may still demand the gun be stored and if you need to use him then you have to bend a little. Trying to push your side on the basis of principle or to have the gun for the opening week might bite you in the ass.

I might try and contact the FPU and see if they can shed some light on this. IOW is it definitely 2 weeks after the sub is done or does it vary or lastly should it void as soon as the sub is done.

One shot on kill

I was in the very same situation regarding substitution.

I called into the FO and explained I was worried about my sub coming through before the other guy got his license for my old gun.

Strictly legal or not he told me under no circumstances to hand over the rifle unti I seen his license. But if I ended up with 2 rifles at some stage during the deal he was ok with that once it didn't go on for months.

I also enquired in my RFD and he said its cleaner alround and creates a paper trail for the rifles but there was no need to hand it in.

zlezlius

Was thinking to ring FPu myself as well, but first I thought I'll ask on here, surely lads were in the same shoes before. Might be useful to find this one out for future as well.
Lets see what legal info we'll come up with.

zlezlius

zlezlius wrote: »

Was thinking to ring FPu myself as well, but first I thought I'll ask on here, surely lads were in the same shoes before. Might be useful to find this one out for future as well.
Lets see what legal info we'll come up with.

Okay, so I rang FPU this morning only to find out that the firearm you doing substitution on, has to be handed in with the licence for it to RFD, because ones substitution application was submitted the whole thing becomes "substitution in progress" and licence for your firearm becomes invalid. That is the correct procedure according to them. The other thing he said that there's nooo way substitution should be taking that long and something is not right there.
Took my cert number, said will look into it. Good man. And what a nice lad even to talk to him!

Cass

Did ya happen to ask about the license staying valid for a period of time after the sub has gone through as was the case for me?

Is this a glitch rather than a feature?

One shot on kill

All my subs haven't included a RFD at all. All my subs as in 3 times.

zlezlius

Cass wrote: »

Did ya happen to ask about the license staying valid for a period of time after the sub has gone through as was the case for me?

Is this a glitch rather than a feature?

In case of substitution,he said, licence should be handed to RFD together with the firearm, it becomes invalid once substitution application is accepted by Garda officer and goes to " in process". The only thing the whole turnaround should take couple of weeks, not 3-6 months.This is what I was told this morning