Is there an appetite for a South Eastern Greenway (Rosslare/Waterford Rail Line)

vicwatson

jpb1974 wrote: »

But you're speaking for yourself there.

hypersonic seems to have an appetite for one. I certainly wouldn't be against it.

So, in some cases... the answer is YES.

Eh well done, of course I'm speaking for myself, if the question by the OP was meant as a general "Do you think........." then the answer is NO, but the question was worded "Is there an appetite................". The way the question is put implies "In your opinion, is there an appetite............." and in my opinion there isn't an appetite for a South Eastern Greenway on the old railway line outlined.

vicwatson

Judgement Day wrote: »

imagine getting off ferry in Rosslare ,join the train in Rosslare Harbour and then being able to go to west of ireland if waterford limerick was available and hardly seeing a car....

Why not go back even further in time and hire a horse in Rosslare?

+1

If I'm not mistaken it's just this year 2013, yes 2013, for Iarnrod Eireann to finally get their act together to put together a timetable that somewhat fits in with the times of the Ferries arriving and departing Rosslare Harbour. Jaysus.

jpb1974

That's because from my viewpoint it seems you phrased your NO as if it were general fact as opposed to personal opinion... so apologies in that regard.

And well done to you... 3 posts and a gentle prod before you decide to state your opinion on the matter. At least you've stopped hiding in the background taking prods at people's opinions.

I'll chillax when people start respecting other people's views in relation to this thread. I'm enjoying the information and views that certain people are posting.. the cynical jabs and prods are getting on my nerves. You don't have to bash other people's opinions just because yours differ.

vicwatson

jpb1974 wrote: »

That's because from my viewpoint it seems you phrased your NO as if it were general fact as opposed to personal opinion... so apologies in that regard.

And well done to you... 3 posts and a gentle prod before you decide to state your opinion on the matter. At least you've stopped hiding in the background taking prods at people's opinions.

I'll chillax when people start respecting other people's views in relation to this thread. I'm enjoying the information and views that certain people are posting.. the cynical jabs and prods are getting on my nerves. You don't have to bash other people's opinions just because yours differ.

Oh Chillax

The answer to this whole thread was back in post 8 -

The line last saw a passenger service on 18/09/2010. Several miles of the line continues to be used several times a week by freight trains (between Waterford and Belview Port).

The line is being maintained as per contract between Irish Rail and the National Transport Authority.

The line has been used (and remains available for use) as a diversionary route e.g. in late-2011 the Dublin to Rosslare line was severed near Lansdowne Road due to a bridge over the River Dodder being damaged by flooding. This situation continued for many days. Trains need routine maintenance every week. There were trains on the Rosslare line which were "trapped" and the only way they could go for servicing was for them to travel along the South Wexford Line (replacement trains already serviced took their place). If the South Wexford Line was not there this transfer could not have taken place and commuters and users of the Rosslare-Wicklow-Dublin rail line would have been without a rail service for a prolonged period.

The port authority at Rosslare Europort (Irish Rail) have plans for a railfreight terminal at the port. This is detailed in their plans (plans were/ maybe still are publically available via their website). The line to Waterford and onwards to the west is a strategic asset which could be used for rail freight to/from the port. Earlier this year a review of the port was undertaken by consultants on behalf of the Minister for Transport. Part of this study looked at the two railway lines to the port.

A Greenway would be wholly incompatible with possible future freight use, diversionary use or for any ultimate restoration of a passenger service. There generally is no room to put a greenway alongside the railway.

jpb1974

I will when the door handles start acting like respectable contributors.

Wexford forum was always a good place for a b!tch and a moan... but it was typically done in a manner that respected others. Sad to see long standing contributors trying to pull the rug from under people's feet in the interest of invalidating their opinions simply because they don't align with their own.

I'm done on this thread.

vicwatson

the cynical jabs and prods are getting on my nerves

So you're happy enough to keep discussing the op's thread as long as everyone toes your line?

Okaayyy.

We are all guests on boards.ie and everyone has their own opinion, just because someone else's differs from yours..................

jpb1974

Nah.. nothing to do with differing opinion, just basic manners and respect.. the sort of thing you should have been reared with.

wexandproud

if people were getting off the boat and using the train the service it would not have been cancelled. plus if the train service was running people would be whisked away to the west straight away, if the greenway was there people would spend a few hours and maby even days enjoying the scenary of the south of the county which is as good as anywhere in the country and sure couldent the horses you refer to use it aswell.
rosslare ferry port delivers tourists to this corner,all you have to do is travel the rosslare road any evening and watch them along with the sun dissappearing to the west. we need a little bit of something different to try to keep some of them in this corner for a little while

Chiparus

vicwatson wrote: »

Ah here chillax lads and lassies

The original question was Is there an appetite for a South Eastern Greenway (Rosslare/Waterford Rail Line)

The answer is NO, not currently

In your opinion? I think It would be a great idea. It would bring thousands of tourists to the south east and not just to the costal areas.

It could easily be linked up to the waterford to dungarvan line

And Vic, no need to be rude.


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056909845

Chiparus

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221197361300024X

Payback in 6 years?

hypersonic

Chiparus wrote: »

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221197361300024X

Payback in 6 years?

For the Great Western Greenway the land had to be purchased, this would not be the case in Wexford as the land is still in state control.

Based on the abstract you linked to the Great Western Greenway brings an income of 1,142,000euro to Mayo every year, which is not small money.

How much would it cost to convert the rail line between Rosslare and bellview?
According to a 2012 design study for the Cork to Kinsale Greenway it is estimated at 67,000euro/km.
http://www.corkcoco.ie/co/pdf/692140142.pdf
So payback for a Wexford Greenway would be approximately 3 years based on the above.

I would like to see the rail service reopen. However the service has been closed for nearly 3 years and there is no proposal that I am aware of to reopen it.
So the question is Greenway or a rail line which carries neither freight or passengers?

wexandproud

even if the greenway was never developed i wonder if the freight service would work in a comparatively small area like ireland , just think about these points

1. i export goods on a regular basis and sometimes due to adverse weather the ferries do not sail from rosslare but they do sail from dublin port

2. most haulage companies would prefer to leave from dublin due to access to motorways leading to most parts of country

3 ferries would have to unload on to a train ,train would travel to a depot to unload into storage leading to double handeling and more tracking of containers,then container lifted onto lorry, why not put it on lorry in first place

BarryD

Why are some people here so obsessed with jobs and tourists etc.?? If you get involved in promoting a project like this as a recreational facility, then the primary benefactors must be local people first and always foremost. You do it to give local people better access to the countryside, a safer place to cycle, walk, jog. To improve physical & mental health and stimulate an interest in the local environment & history etc.

If jobs and tourists come as a spin off, well so be it - that's grand. This is largely how continental Europe views facilities like this on the whole. You create opportunities for local people and if others come, well & good.

Of course, if the line is required for regular commercial and/or strategic rail use, that's an important factor but what if it's only an odd train now & then?

wexandproud

i would like to think that jobs and income from tourism are important and every oppertunity to create jobs and income should be looked at and but i agree 100% that the locals could and should benefit greatly and not just financially from the greenway.And in case anybody is wondering ,i have no vested interest in tourism

oldyouth

If it is such a great idea, go to the bank and invest in it yourself. Make millions and prove everyone wrong.

Specialised interests are not economically viable in a recession. You need people with a surplus of money over sense and they used to be there, but not at the minute

jpb1974

oldyouth wrote: »

If it is such a great idea, go to the bank and invest in it yourself. Make millions and prove everyone wrong.

Specialised interests are not economically viable in a recession. You need people with a surplus of money over sense and they used to be there, but not at the minute

I'm not sure that private investors can make money from such a venture. Any revenue generated would most likely be indirect and go into the economy.

I'm not sure if anyone is proposing it be done immediately, just debating whether it would be a good idea or not.

BarryD

Putting in facilities like this is not about making millions, it's about providing decent facilities for citizens who live in the region...

Not that I'd hold out a huge amount of hope for that in Wexford though. Maybe someone can explain to me why Wexford has some of the worst minor roads in the country, despite the levies & income from all the building developments along the coast and the burgeoning windfarm industry. Where did my car tax go for years? What about household charges and property taxes? Where does/ did it all go? I can't understand why some of the residents of rural areas in Wexford don't revolt.

wexandproud

nobody ever said that as stand alone venture it would make money . any of the references to payback on this forum were in the context of revenue generated in the surrounding areas by use of the facility. just like a beach, a river or a mountain in themselves dont make money but they bring people to an area and give enjoyment

vicwatson

BarryD wrote: »

Putting in facilities like this is not about making millions, it's about providing decent facilities for citizens who live in the region...

Not that I'd hold out a huge amount of hope for that in Wexford though. Maybe someone can explain to me why Wexford has some of the worst minor roads in the country, despite the levies & income from all the building developments along the coast and the burgeoning windfarm industry. Where did my car tax go for years? What about household charges and property taxes? Where does/ did it all go? I can't understand why some of the residents of rural areas in Wexford don't revolt.

It goes into electronic signs that tell you where you can park in Wexford that get damaged before operation as they are fitted incorrectly, and the likes :mad::mad:

As a man on the radio said the other day "during the boom years the County Councils had loads of engineers, they still have loads of engineers now"

wexandproud

ffs dont get get me started on the co council , roads, tax and the like

man98

It isn't as if the South Wexford Line has no prospects. Since it re-opened it 2008 it would take someone 13:20 hours to go Rosslare- Galway. Including a 4 hour wait in Waterford. They were force into opening it back to the public in 2008 and got what they wanted in 2010. I ca't find the article, but the Wexford People reported on a SERA report that it could accommodate up to 6 return journeys a day from Gorey, not Rosslare. Seriously, In the morning you could go Enniscorthy- Waterford but no return? One more thing, Irish Rail claimed that 25 people used the service a day, One of the times I was onboard I counted 62 at Waterford, 55 at Campile, 48 at Ballycullane, 43 at Wellingtonbridge. In a report showing their losses of '2 million' they decided to add in one-off exspenses, so it really was only 1 million approx. The DART loses 20 million.

Chiparus

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/council-advances-plans-to-develop-abandoned-rail-lines-in-cork-1.1488563

Judgement Day

Chiparus wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/council-advances-plans-to-develop-abandoned-rail-lines-in-cork-1.1488563

What relevance has the development of long lifted railways (1950/60) in Cork got to do with the sacrificing of a still intact, potentially viable line linking to the main port for European ferry sailings?

Chiparus

You really believe that Irish rail want to keep this line open?

Judgement Day

Chiparus wrote: »

You really believe that Irish rail want to keep this line open?

Where did I say that? As far as I can see Irish Rail have no interest in keeping any railway open but that doesn't mean that a greenway should be developed on the Waterford/Rosslare line.

BarryD

Judgement Day wrote: »

NO!

Out of curiosity, I've read back through those older threads and it's not clear at all where you're coming from, unless I've missed something obvious? I'm not sure if you want to see it redeveloped as a passenger railway line, a walkway, sold for scrap metal or just abandoned and left as it is??

I'd be interested in your vision for this railway line, as you seem to have a pretty strong opinion on it?

man98

Judgement Day wrote: »

As far as I can see Irish Rail have no interest in keeping any railway open

That is a lie. Irish Rail have no interest in keeping any railway that doesn't run out of Dublin open.
Think about. 4 years ago the 3 lines they decided they wanted to close were Limerick- Ballybrophy, Ballina- Manulla junction, Rosslare- Waterford, Waterford- Limerick Junction, Limerick- Athenry.
What do they have against Limerick?

Judgement Day wrote: »

but that doesn't mean that a greenway should be developed on the Waterford/Rosslare line.

Of course there should, just not by Irish Rail. I can tell you straight off that companies have always had an interest in developing passenger and freight services from County Wexford to the rest of Ireland. Which cn't be done through Wicklow because of all the tunnels.

Judgement Day

BarryD wrote: »

Out of curiosity, I've read back through those older threads and it's not clear at all where you're coming from, unless I've missed something obvious? I'm not sure if you want to see it redeveloped as a passenger railway line, a walkway, sold for scrap metal or just abandoned and left as it is??

I'd be interested in your vision for this railway line, as you seem to have a pretty strong opinion on it?

I was against the closure, against the continuance of its operation by CIE and in favour of its proper development and promotion. One of the things that I suggested to various politicians over the years was the reinstatement of the avoiding curve from Killinick (east of Rosslare Strand) to Felthouse Junction (on the Rosslare/Connolly line)...might as well have talked to the wall.



The line had/has no future run by CIE who operated the route to suit staff requirements rather than passengers. I could go on but why bother, this is Ireland and nothing will happen. The cessation of maintenance is inevitable, followed by lifting and then a greeenway - 10/15 years max.

BarryD

Thanks for clarifying. There was a bit of debate recently during the Dublin Bus strike and if/how/when routes could be put out to tender to the benefit of the public. The possibility of this applying to Irish Rail was raised and just as quickly dismissed - too small a network, too specialised and so on. So I guess you're probably right, although it could just go back to nature and farmland.

If anyone has any sense, a bit of vegetation & drainage management will save a lot of restorative work in the future. Approx 7 kilometres of old trackway near Tinahely in Co.Wicklow have been restored in recent years. I wouldn't have figures for the work involved but looking at what was done, I'd be guessing it runs into several tens of thousands of Euro.

hypersonic