Concern that Vanity Fair calling Pope "Man of the year"

Doc Farrell

Thanks for the quotes but your interpretation is an example of failing to understand the difference between faith and ideology. His criticisms echo Jesus' criticisms of the Pharisees, who knew all the laws but little of their faith.

It's a fascinating homily.

scidive

Doc Farrell wrote: »

Thanks for the quotes but your interpretation is an example of failing to understand the difference between faith and ideology. His criticisms echo Jesus' criticisms of the Pharisees, who knew all the laws but little of their faith.

It's a fascinating homily.

I disagree. Rigid ideology (beliefs) are the pillars of the Catholic church. The bulwark against change and has stood the Catholic church well for 2000 years. The alternative to rigid ideology is loose ideology which opens the church up to false doctrine / ideas .

Doc Farrell

Again, respectfully, you use the words belief and ideology as meaning the same thing, which is not what the pope is saying.

Here's the piece from Luke that he was referencing.

52 'Alas for you lawyers who have taken away the key of knowledge! You have not gone in yourselves and have prevented others from going in who wanted to.'

53 When he left there, the scribes and the Pharisees began a furious attack on him and tried to force answers from him on innumerable questions,

54 lying in wait to catch him out in something he might say.

But you are, of course, entitled to your opinion, even if it's the exact opposite of the Pope's.

scidive

Doc Farrell wrote: »

Again, respectfully, you use the words belief and ideology as meaning the same thing, which is not what the pope is saying.

Here's the piece from Luke that he was referencing.

52 'Alas for you lawyers who have taken away the key of knowledge! You have not gone in yourselves and have prevented others from going in who wanted to.'

53 When he left there, the scribes and the Pharisees began a furious attack on him and tried to force answers from him on innumerable questions,

54 lying in wait to catch him out in something he might say.

But you are, of course, entitled to your opinion, even if it's the exact opposite of the Pope's.

The problem here is what does the Pope mean by ideological catholics. The definition of ideology is the set of beliefs characteristic of a social group or institution so its fair to say ideological Catholics are people that stick strictly to the Catholic practises. So from the Pope's comment "warned Christians against turning their faith into a rigid ideology" or its fair to say devote Catholic practises.

So effectivley he's saying devote Catholics are Pharisees that have 'lost the faith: he is no longer a disciple of Jesus'.

My understanding of a Pharisee was one that put on the show of great religious devotion but lived their life the opposite . But according to Francis statement one just need to stick rigidly to Catholic ideology and your a Pharisee which just about covers most of the great Catholic saints.

tommy2bad

Francis seems to taking the RCC in a more pastoral direction and is trying to leave the legalism behind. Cant blame him when you see where that road led in the past.

Doc Farrell

Respectfully again, if you honestly think that the Pope is suggesting for a second that saints like Francis or whomever are hypocrites , which is the word used by Jesus in the chapter from Luke, then I honestly don't think there's anything that will convince you otherwise.

Using the quotes that you provided please notice that that he is contrasting rigid ideologues with disciples of Jesus. This is exactly what Jesus is saying in the words above from Luke. Have a read of your last post and ask yourself if you really believe the line of reasoning that you have taken. And if you do, well, I hope you understand why others possibly cannot.