LGH A&E flooded!!

Noreen1

More bad news.

http://www.highlandradio.com/2013/07/30/altnagelvin-hospital-stops-accepting-emergency-ambulances-from-letterkenny/

It’s emerged that Altnagelvin Hospital in Derry has stopped taking emergency admissions from Letterkenny as a result of bed pressure, with the bulk of emergency cases from Letterkenny General Hospital now being sent to Sligo.
On today’s Shaun Doherty Show, Sligo Emergency Department Consultant Fergal Hickey said a situation could develop where the pressure alternates between Sligo and Derry for a number of weeks.
He’s hopeful that by tomorrow, Altnagelvin will be in a position to accept ambulances from Letterkenny, saying that by then, his department could be under very serious pressure……….

It appears that Letterkenny is going to take several months to repair:

http://www.thejournal.ie/letterkenny-hospital-latest-flooding-1014586-Jul2013/

Letterkenny General Hospital could take far longer than being predicted by the HSE, the Irish Association for Emergency Medicine has warned.

The IAEM – made-up of emergency doctors – says international experience suggests the reconstruction will take far longer. The organisation is calling for regular and clear updates from the health service on how long the situation is likely to continue:

…it must be appreciated that for an Emergency Department to function and provide a safe service to patients, the necessary supporting infrastructure needs to be in place. Basic hospital functions such as medical records , diagnostic imaging services , laboratory services, inpatient beds, inpatient specialist teams and operating theatre capability are required.

Fergal Hickey, a consultant in emergency medicine at Sligo Regional Hospital and spokesperson for the IAEM, told RTÉ’s Morning Ireland it was likely the reconstruction and restoration effort will take “months rather than weeks”.
He said that in the meantime hospital staff at Letterkenny – and at Sligo and Altnagelvin - were facing a major challenge, and that it was inevitable “patients will take longer to be seen”.

I know of one patient, in considerable pain, who waited for 10 hours to be seen by a doctor in Sligo yesterday!:eek:
The staff there are completely swamped, they don't have the bed capability, waiting rooms are being used as wards! It's completely unacceptable, both for the patients, and the staff.
Today will be worse, with Altnagelvin unable to cope.

Am I the only one who thinks the Government and HSE are not treating this with the urgency it deserves?

Are cleanup crews working around the clock, for example?
It's summertime, lots of daylight hours for construction workers.
Are Construction Contractors being requested to factor shift rotas into the cost of tenders?

I hear a lot of hot air statements from various TDs, but I'm inclined to wonder if they're pushing for practical solutions, or just trying to appear as if they're doing something, whether that something is useful, or not!:mad:

Durnish

TTalking of the ground further up hill absorbing some of the rain, there seems to be a lot of new building up there which then may prevent much absorption.

jimmad

Why hasnt the defense forces helicopter been made available on permanent standby at the hospital to cover emergencies instead of having to come from sligo first?

Noreen1

danniemcq wrote: »

IF the drainage around like previously mentioned on the roads were clear it would allow huge relief (I was passing by the area and water was gushing like a geyser out of the drains as it hit a blockage meaning the water was forced onto the road and area again. (i'll take a photo later to show people what i mean)

Just as a matter of interest - Does anyone know what size the drainage pipes along the road are in Letterkenny?

Quite aside from whether or not they were clear - are they adequate to cope with extra run-off from new builds/less green fields for absorption?

i.e. Was the drainage around the A&E inadequate, or was it a case of the existing drains to (I presume) the Swilly being unable to cope?

There's been a serious amount of building around LK in the last 10 years, both above the hospital, s Durnish said, but also all along by the Ramelton road, etc., and I don't remember seeing any works on drainage pipes in the lower part of the town..... which is where all the water will eventually end up, if it can get that far!
It seems the more we find out, the less we know!

Noreen1

jimmad wrote: »

Why hasnt the defense forces helicopter been made available on permanent standby at the hospital to cover emergencies instead of having to come from sligo first?

Probably because there's as much chance of an emergency happening in South Donegal/Sligo, as there is in the Northern half of Donegal??

Noreen1

More updates:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0730/465400-letterkenny-general/

Mr Murphy would not confirm suggestions that part of the old building, where the temporary emergency department is to be established, will have to be knocked because of contaminated asbestos.

I heard rumours about this. Does anyone know if the old building contained asbestos in the flooded area?

If so, given the lack of urgency displayed by the Government/HSE, months before things are back to normal seems optimistic!

I'd really hate to be working in LGH in any capacity at the moment!
I'm not sure whether to be more sympathetic to the cleaners, nurses, doctors, or management.
It must be a complete nightmare for them!

Flibbles

Noreen1 wrote: »

More updates:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0730/465400-letterkenny-general/



I heard rumours about this. Does anyone know if the old building contained asbestos in the flooded area?

If so, given the lack of urgency displayed by the Government/HSE, months before things are back to normal seems optimistic!

I'd really hate to be working in LGH in any capacity at the moment!
I'm not sure whether to be more sympathetic to the cleaners, nurses, doctors, or management.
It must be a complete nightmare for them!

Surely it would have been shut down anyway if it had asbestos? Or is Donegal so badly underfinanced that it had to be left there?

L1011

Flibbles wrote: »

Surely it would have been shut down anyway if it had asbestos? Or is Donegal so badly underfinanced that it had to be left there?

You can use a building with asbestos in it safely as long as you don't disturb it - encased asbestos isn't a risk; asbestos fibres in the air are.

Flibbles

MYOB wrote: »

You can use a building with asbestos in it safely as long as you don't disturb it - encased asbestos isn't a risk; asbestos fibres in the air are.

Learn something new every day!

Noreen1

MYOB wrote: »

You can use a building with asbestos in it safely as long as you don't disturb it - encased asbestos isn't a risk; asbestos fibres in the air are.

True. (Or so I'm told!)

Flibbles wrote: »

Surely it would have been shut down anyway if it had asbestos? Or is Donegal so badly underfinanced that it had to be left there?

Even though the asbestos could safely be left there, doesn't mean Donegal isn't badly underfinanced.
We didn't earn the name "The forgotten County" for nothing, unfortunately.

For example, there was great fanfare about the new A&E. What wasn't mentioned was that neither the existing hospital, nor the new A&E, were, or are, sufficient to cope with the numbers the Hospital needs to service the population.

Neither was it mentioned that much of new equipment purchased prior to the new A&E was either wholly, or partly funded by "Friends of Letterkenny General Hospital", a charity set up by the hospital staff, and concerned citizens, to purchase desperately needed equipment! (A CT scanner being a case in point, together with .75 million towards equipment for the acute psychiatric unit, and that's just two off the top of my head.!)

I happen to know (because I overheard a very reliable source, in the form of a visiting Consultant), that some of the X-ray equipment is in severe need of an upgrade.

The Government/HSE have an opportunity, and a duty, to the people of Donegal, to ensure that they get the best return on the money that will have to be spent, but I predict that we will get a "quick fix" instead.
Electing a couple of TDs from whatever Government happens to be in power seems to be taken as a signal that we're happy enough with the treatment we get.

Maybe the fact that we returned a couple of Sinn Fein candidates, as well as some Independents last time might be a warning signal - but I wont hold my breath while I'm waiting!

icescreamqueen

Senna wrote: »

Ask them are emergency c-sections still able to be preformed within the hospital. I'm sure they are, but rumour going around that they are not.

I asked the consultant this morning as regards the emergency c-sections and he told me they're still being done as per usual.

The maternity ward is fully operational too.

I'm not being induced for another week, twiddling thumb time now

Senna

icescreamqueen wrote: »

I asked the consultant this morning as regards the emergency c-sections and he told me they're still being done as per usual.

The maternity ward is fully operational too.

I'm not being induced for another week, twiddling thumb time now

Good luck, the wife has 3 more weeks of twiddling her thumbs:D

Noreen1

icescreamqueen wrote: »

I asked the consultant this morning as regards the emergency c-sections and he told me they're still being done as per usual.

The maternity ward is fully operational too.

I'm not being induced for another week, twiddling thumb time now

Enjoy it! You wont get time to twiddle your thumbs for long enough when baby arrives!:p:D:D

Penfailed

If Derry and Sligo are getting it tight in the A&E departments, why are some not being diverted to Enniskillen? They've got a brand new, state of the art, acute hospital...

Noreen1

Good question! There was some talk of Enniskillen having some role when the news broke first, but I haven't heard any mention of it since.

michael999999

It was on RTE driverime earlier that this hospital had flooded, even before it was officially opened a few years back!

Did the planners, architects and engineers get there qualifications on a day course or something?

They also mentioned it may be nine months before the hospital is operational again!

irlpic

Here is a public link with planning application submissions for the new wing :

http://www.donegal.ie/letterkenny_eplan/internetenquiry/softcoWebIntegration.asp?page_num=0&file_number=0780149&showDoc=2

Noreen1

michael999999 wrote: »

It was on RTE driverime earlier that this hospital had flooded, even before it was officially opened a few years back!

Did the planners, architects and engineers get there qualifications on a day course or something?

They also mentioned it may be nine months before the hospital is operational again!

Just because it flooded before, doesn't necessarily mean that the planners, architects, or engineers were at fault!

They may have been, but there are a lot of other factors that might also have caused the problem.
eg. Drainage below the hospital, was it adequate, and clear, without blockages?
What about the standards to which the drains within the hospital grounds were laid? That's another possible grey area.

I'm no engineer, and I have nothing to do with LGH, it's architects, engineers, or management.
Neither do I have any inside knowledge.
It just seems to me that everyone is having a go at the engineers, etc. when we actually have no idea what caused the problem!

It could be any of the above issues, or none of them. We just don't know, so it's a bit unfair (though understandable!) to single anyone out for criticism, imo, until we actually find out what really went wrong.

Durnish

Now I do love Bing maps but OSi Mapviewer rules here.
It lets you see the old water courses and their uses in the hills above LKGH. Several old reservoirs, sluices, springs, pumps, even mills at a lower level, are shown, hinting at harnessing a force of water coming down off the hills.

I seem to remember that ROI architects have a lesser role (than in UK) and responsibility for the final product. This came out in the awful Priory apartments development in Dublin.

Interesting to note that in Belfast it has just been discovered that heating pipes in a big new extension in the RVH have corroded and the whole lot has to de redone. Maybe in recessionary times more scrutiny is required of all building work espec those that include stuff hidden underground.

I can see this whole episode at LGH being used as example of town planning having to learn to cope with concreted over slopes versus old drainage patterns in an era of climate change.

muffler

Noreen1 wrote: »

It just seems to me that everyone is having a go at the engineers, etc. when we actually have no idea what caused the problem!

It could be any of the above issues, or none of them. We just don't know, so it's a bit unfair (though understandable!) to single anyone out for criticism, imo, until we actually find out what really went wrong.

Well said Noreen.

And despite what others may have thought I wasn't defending anyone or any regulations in a previous post but merely trying to point out the obvious despite being accused of behaving like a prick by PM.

The whole thing is under investigation - 2 investigations I believe - and I sincerely hope that the outcome of those will be made public and more importantly if anyone person or group of people or committee or executive is found to be negligent then just like others have said I feel they should be held accountable in a court of law.

Its all ifs and buts at the moment and really and truly its very unfair to point the finger of blame at anyone at this point in time.

danniemcq

Noreen1 wrote: »

Are cleanup crews working around the clock, for example?
It's summertime, lots of daylight hours for construction workers.
Are Construction Contractors being requested to factor shift rotas into the cost of tenders?

I hear a lot of hot air statements from various TDs, but I'm inclined to wonder if they're pushing for practical solutions, or just trying to appear as if they're doing something, whether that something is useful, or not!:mad:

I walked past yesterday after work and there was 2 Hazardous Waste trucks around with several other clean up crews and about 2 dozen people in what looked like Hazmat suits. Seemed to be a proper buzz of something being done anyway.

mistermouse

No one seems to remember this from 1998 where it shows there has been a risk of flooding from before. This must surely have been years before plans for the new A&E were even drawn

Noreen1

mistermouse wrote: »

No one seems to remember this from 1998 where it shows there has been a risk of flooding from before. This must surely have been years before plans for the new A&E were even drawn

It certainly demonstrates that that area seems to be at high risk of flooding!
And that was before all the extra housing was built!

Having said that - it's possible (even probable, given the remedial works at the culvert, after the last flooding episode!), that better drainage has been factored into the plans for the new A&E.

It still doesn't answer whether A: The actual installation was built according to the engineers spec., and B: Whether the existing (Old)drainage systems at a level below the hospital were adequate for the job., for whatever reason.

In other words, the engineers or architects might have specified a 3M culvert (unlikely, I know) - it wouldn't make a bit of difference if it was feeding into a smaller culvert somewhere between the A&E and the Swilly, the water would still back up!
There's another issue, also. Any culvert between the A&E and the Swilly could theoretically have failed due to soil erosion. We have had very high levels of rainfall for the last couple of years.
There's also the issue of how many new housing estates have been built since the plans for the A&E were drawn up, causing extra run-off from non-porous surfaces?

The more I think about it, the more possibilities become apparent!

We'll just have to wait and see what the engineers report reveals - assuming the brief that they've been given is adequate to carry out a proper investigation, though I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't be!

Mint Sauce

muffler wrote: »

Well said Noreen.

And despite what others may have thought I wasn't defending anyone or any regulations in a previous post but merely trying to point out the obvious despite being accused of behaving like a prick by PM.

The whole thing is under investigation - 2 investigations I believe - and I sincerely hope that the outcome of those will be made public and more importantly if anyone person or group of people or committee or executive is found to be negligent then just like others have said I feel they should be held accountable in a court of law.

Its all ifs and buts at the moment and really and truly its very unfair to point the finger of blame at anyone at this point in time.

Yes it is unfair, but hopefully these investigations will be made public. LGH has been in the news alot, in relation to its status, its services, over crowding, etc etc, and now to be without a fully fuctioning A&E, for a county of its size and spread, is going to put it in the spotlight again. Questions need to be answered, and them answered made public, so that nothing like this happens again.

I hope to god that no one I know or love, or anyone for that mater, has their health or propects of recovering effected by the loss of this front line service, other wise you could see the bill from this hiking up.

danniemcq

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Yes it is unfair, but hopefully these investigations will be made public. LGH has been in the news alot, in relation to its status, its services, over crowding, etc etc, and now to be without a fully fuctioning A&E, for a county of its size and spread, is going to put it in the spotlight again. Questions need to be answered, and them answered made public, so that nothing like this happens again.

a very odd way of looking at this however is that its showing how badly the hospital and the services are needed. As we have seen Altnagelvin and Sligo are having major issues coping with the extra strain on them so it shows that LGH is badly needed.

I know its still a clusterf*ck of a situation but still

Vinegar Hill

It seems Junior Minister Kathleen Lynch took ill visiting LGH today. I wonder did she go to Derry or Sligo for care?

http://www.donegalnow.com/sp/article_manager/detail/junior_minister_taken_ill_during_letterkenny_visit

mistermouse

The Helicoptor has just landed at the hospital. It was there almost daily a few weeks ago, sometimes twice a day.

Its nearly strange to see it now

caustic 1

It seems she has been airlifted to Cork.

Vinegar Hill

caustic 1 wrote: »

It seems she has been airlifted to Cork.

Poor wee critter.....

caustic 1

A huh, I wonder if it were one of us would we get same treatment?.. I think not.