FFP or SFP

lefthooker

Whats your preference for a long range varminting/foxing setup, and why? IS one more suited to the job than the other. I currently use an SFP scope, is there anything to be gained from or more suited to in FFP?

Cass

For long range? SFP

Simply because i don't need to worry about the reticle "blocking out" the target which at long range can be a problem. I use a FFP on the .243 but out to 300 yards it's not an issue and on deer even foxes it's still good enough as the reticle is not too thick.

On some FFP scopes the reticle can be a thick/wide line. As soon as you get to 200 yards it blocks an area of 3"+. The further out you go the more area it blocks to the point where to are "guessing" where the reticle is pointed at.


On the .308 i use a SFP scope with a semi fine cross hair. Great for any long range shot and well capable of letting the rifle see clearly out to 1,000 yards.

session savage

I would personally prefer a FFP simply because I like to use mil dots to measure distance and I can get a much more accurate reading by zooming in. A SFP scopes mil dots are only right at 100yds typically and its much harder to get a mil reading if your measuring something over 200yds away (a fence post for example).

lefthooker

Thanks lads, I can see both sides;
having a fine reticle that doesn't block the target at any mag, or
having a reticle for precise rangefinding with fixed holdover values at any mag.
I was looking thru a S&B with A8Varmint Reticle FFP and thought it was a right job.

What scope and Reticle are you using Session?

Cass

session savage wrote: »

A SFP scopes mil dots are only right at 100yds typically ........

I won't say never, but usually not.

They are set to work at a certain magnification. Nightforce for example. The reticle is true at 15 power on their 3.5-15 scopes, and 22 power on their 5.5-22, 8-32, and 12-42 power scopes.

So the 100 yard thing is not true for most scopes i know in SFP. Magnification is. Sightron work a similar process on some of their scopes such as their SIII series, as does Hawke with their sidewinder on 10 power, etc.

hiddenmongoose

session savage wrote: »

A SFP scopes mil dots are only right at 100yds typically .

complete nonsense, SFP scopes will only measure correctly on a certain magnification setting,(that will be in the owners manual) but once on this setting will measure correctly at any and all distances.milrads are an angular method of measuring so if it measures correctly at 100m it will measure correctly at 1000m or 1000000m or 14648295m.or yards or inchs for that matter.a mil is a mil..milrads are an angular measuring method they are also not metric.common misunderstanding /myth.

session savage

hiddenmongoose wrote: »

complete nonsense, SFP scopes will only measure correctly on a certain magnification setting,(that will be in the owners manual) but once on this setting will measure correctly at any and all distances.milrads are an angular method of measuring so if it measures correctly at 100m it will measure correctly at 1000m or 1000000m or 14648295m.or yards or inchs for that matter.a mil is a mil..milrads are an angular measuring method they are also not metric.common misunderstanding /myth.

Your after picking me up arseways there mate. Fair enough the mil dots can be correct at mag settings other than 10X depending on make the point is they are correct at only that setting.
I never said you could only measure correctly at a certain distance sure thats frikking stupid talk.
I said you can only use the mil dots to accurately rangefind at the manufacturers preset magnification setting. (I thought it was typically 10X but I have been corrected either way that is irrelevant) and that is no use to me if I'm out in a field trying to get a mil reading off a fence post 360yds away looking at it through 10x. If i zoom in with a SFP to get a better mil reading then the image gets bigger but the mils dont ie the mil reading will be completely wrong. However if I am using a FFP then the mil dots magnify along with the image so I can still use them to get a true mil reading. ok?

zeissman

I have owned both types of scopes but only use SFP reticles now.
I hated the way the crosshairs got thicker as you increased magnification.
My scopes were 3-12x50 models but there was not much point in having 12 power on a scope when the crosshairs were so thick.
I know some people use the mil dot FFP for rangefinding etc but a good rangefinder and target turrets on a SFP scope works better in my opinion.

hiddenmongoose

biggest plus for a FFP scope is the fact that if you miss and see a splash/impact/hole you can look at your reticle and see how many mils you are off then just dial that onto the scope.ie .see you are right 1.5 mil at 678 m just dial 1.5 mil left and your spot on,cuts out any math involved.measuring with mils takes practice and a good list of known sizes to be consistently accurate,or to be within the error margin/danger area allowed by your bullet drop,your just better off with a lrf.

bravestar

I have owned both types and only use FFP now. I find them far better for me. Im not shooting beyond 600m. That being said if I was to start shooting at small targets at 1000+ I would be using a SFP for the reasons already given.

Vegeta

Have both.

Nightforce NXS 12-42, SFP

Vortex Viper PST 6-24, FFP

Have only had a chance to shoot the FFP scope twice, zeroing and 1 day varminting. Going again this weekend (if all the stars align) and will note at what distance the reticle becomes a problem.

Either way some of the FFP scopes and reticles are designed with this in mind so have a tiny tiny target dot in the centre. Pretty useless at low mag but when maxxed on magnification it becomes quite useful for long range small sized targets.

ejg

Some non illuminated scopes such as 3-12x50 S&B Klassik with No. 4 reticule can be awkward at longer ranges as the crosshair covers
as far as I remember around 1/2" at 100yds. The illuminated version with L3 can be really good as crosshair is much finer.
My Kahles 6-24 tactical ffp has a crosshair that covers 5mm at 100m (1" at 500m) which is fine also for 600 - 800 yd shooting.
ffp is apparently more accurate between zoom changes and also the more robust way of making a scope.
I also have sfp scopes and zero them at highest mag. If I had to choose I'd go ffp.
Like others have mentioned already....
One advantage of ffp scopes is to measure a miss or shot correction at any distance with any magnification.
Say you have no rangefinder no wind meter, shoot at target and measure the distance between aimpoint and impact with mildot, this number can be dialled into the scope and a second shot hit is very likely.
edi

zeissman

A FFP scope like the kahles that ejg has would be excellent.
The ones I had were the hunting type with the no 4 reticles and were not suited to precision shooting.
ejg is right about the zoom, A ffp reticle scope will never change point of impact when changing magnification which can happen with cheaper sfp scopes.
I also read that a ffp scope will be better in low light than the same scope with a sfp reticle.
I am happy with my sfp scopes but im sure id be happy with that kahles also.

Cass

I believe the difference in light transmission between FFP and SFP has to do with the number of lenses.

Most SFP have at least one extra lens than FFP so it acts like a filter and reduces the amount of light passing through. Obviously this is lessened on the higher quality scope where a lot of R&D and money has gone into creating the best possible glass, but it's hard to beat a FFP scope which is better simply because it has less.

The Kahles is unbelievable. The clarity, and sharpness (for want of a better word) is like nothing i have seen before. I would say it's definitely clearer than a Nightforce, or any other scope i've owned. As you said ejg the crosshair does get larger, but at 500 yards a stake at the end of the field behind me is still visible and not blocked out.

Cass

Apologies if that seems like a subtle or sneaky way to advertise it. The scope is not mine, and i'm selling for a friend. I mention it only because of ejg's point about his, and i've never owned a Kahles before.

i've removed the link as i can see what it looks like.


Apologies again.

One shot on kill

Must be a good scope if you can see a stake 500 yards behind you. :-)

Cass

Smart arse.

lefthooker

Thanks for all the replies lads, I'm still not swayed in either direction.

I can see the adjustments that Edi described being more applicable to target shooting rather than the varminting I'm into. Measuring POI to POA is not really practical in the field. I never leave the the house without my Leica and prefer to dial in the range for the long shots.

I really like the construction of my NXS and don't want to change it. Its a pity they don't do my scope and reticle in an FFP variant 5.5-22 NPR2

Cass

Nightforce are among the best scopes in the world and on the right ranging power can work the same as a FFP scope and they do not suffer any shift in POI when zooming in or out.

I used one on a 6.5 and .308 for years and shot many a deer with it. not to mention i pout it on a target rifle then shot out to 1,000 yards with the scope.

If you have the Nightforce then i'd say you are set up. There is always a debate about the difference betwen Nightforce and Swar, Zeiss, S&B for glass clarity, but never about performance or functionality. So in my opinion if it ain't broke, don't fix it. :cool:

ejg

Especially in the field, long range rabbits for example or if you want to hold off instead of dialling in wind, elevation.
At the moment I am using a sfp conquest and have missed the measuring option. At 470m I could see the impact holes on the target but had to guess the correction using more ammo than needed. In that case it was just to see if my drop chart was good further out.
When shooting across a windy valley one often does not know where the wind will put you, one sometimes gets a second chance even at a fox.
edi

hiddenmongoose

EJG is correct the ability to measure poi from poa is much more important in the field/hunting than on the range.It allows you to make a follow up shot much more quickly ,It also allows you if you have someone else spotting for you to make a quick adjustment call to you if you dont see your impact.
I own 2 s&b pm11 ,a 3-12 and a 5-25 both ffp.I wouldnt buy a sfp scope again to be honest.The 5-25 has the p4 fine reticle and I dont have a problem with it covering my target.
A .1mil thick reticle will cover 10cm at 1000m,your talking the width of a rabbits chest there! The fine reticles you can get on top end glass are from.05mil to .035mil thick, thats 3.5 cm at 1k.