Dublin Bus strike from Sunday 04/08 [called off - service resumes 07/08]

ixoy

I'm still curious as to what cuts/changes Dublin Bus workers will accept? I assume they understand that, as much as they might not like it, that there's a need to cut costs and that they're not going to get any money from the government.
So what's acceptable then? Is it just a case that management should take more as it was in BE?

Amirani

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

Get over yourself, really. Sense of entitlement from some people is unbelievable, its not the bus drivers fault (who have already taken cuts, as well as been subjected to all the other taxes like us all) that you are disabled. It has been clear that this trike was coming, its not as if it was out of the blue. The blame lies with management and the govt, not the unions, who no doubt are trying to throw in the towel as we speak, no matter what the membership want.

Maybe you should learn more about this, the LC recommendation is temporary, management want it permanently.

That's a disgusting post really. Having a go at disabled people who rely on Dublin Bus having a "sense of entitlement" is not on whatsoever.

As far as any sane minded individual is concerned, cuts are necessary in Dublin Bus - it's a big loss making company. No amount of blaming Government or DB management is going to change that.

jman0war

I don't understand how or why it's legal, for a private members club (unions) to disrupt the provision of a public service that's being bought and paid for by taxpayers.

MyPeopleNeedMe

I couldn't find any information on whether the strike is only for today. Anyone knows if they operate tomorrow?

devnull

It is until further notice.

JTMan

I bet this strike will mirror the Bus Eireann strike from earlier this year.

It will be called off by Wednesday, at the latest, with revised cuts agreed over the coming days.

bmaxi

alphamule wrote: »

He is unable to have anytime type of a life. Doesn't know when or where he will be working!

So what! Say that to one of their faces.

That's a seniority issue which doesn't apply to all drivers. It's still a lot better than zero hour workers in some of our retailers who need to be on the end of a phone, he's got a permanent job where he's guaranteed work every day.
There are some valid arguments in the drivers' case but this isn't one of them.

stehyl15

Its a disgrace they dont care about any1 if i was db managment i would suspend pay until they get back to work im sure there are plenty of truck drivers and people trained to heavy duty veicicles on the dole that would be more than happy to drive a bus plus london bus drivers and bus driver in other eu cities may go on strike a lot but they are not as well paid as the ones here

Esoteric_

stehyl15 wrote: »

Its a disgrace they dont care about any1 if i was db managment i would suspend pay until they get back to work im sure there are plenty of truck drivers and people trained to heavy duty veicicles on the dole that would be more than happy to drive a bus plus london bus drivers and bus driver in other eu cities may go on strike a lot but they are not as well paid as the ones here

I'd imagine they do care, at least about supporting their families.

Polar101

I'm still confused as to what the unions want? No cuts at all? I checked Siptu's press statement and it just said 'Don't bully us, or else', while NBRU didn't have anything on this.

Grandeeod

Polar101 wrote: »

I'm still confused as to what the unions want? No cuts at all? I checked Siptu's press statement and it just said 'Don't bully us, or else', while NBRU didn't have anything on this.

I'd love to hear this too. Can anybody please tell us what the unions want on behalf of their members?

Heisenberg1

Grandeeod wrote: »

I'd love to hear this too. Can anybody please tell us what the unions want on behalf of their members?

The unions have agreed to the propsed cuts that the LC have recommended but the staff have rejected them. What the staff want is zero cuts and its up to the unions and DB to come up with plan B which you won't know until its agreed.

devnull

I'm laughing in a sense at Varadakar hes a complete muppet, a total mouth with no ideas or understanding of how the public transport sector works and unsuitable for the job. Remember how he insulted the BE drivers during their strike? Congratulations you just waved the red flag at the bulls!

No, actually he's doing a much better job that many of his predecessors, since what has happened with public transport on the user side in the last few years has seen more improvements than there has been for a long time, not all of that is down to Leo, without doubt, but he surely has played a part in it and I think he is doing a vastly better job so far than those who have gone before him who have done very little for public transport for the users of such services. There is still a long way to go however before anything is as good as it should be, but there are more encouraging signs.

The simple reason is of course the workers don't like Leo, he's not giving in to their every demand like pretty much all of the ministers did in the Fianna Fail years. In those years, if the company had any problems the answer was simply to keep throwing more money at it rather than dealing with any of the underlying problems. The previous ministers for transport seemed more interested in satisfying the unions and CIE rather than actually seeing the bigger picture, and it's great we have someone who won't just hand money over no questions asked, which is one of the reasons why this country is in this mess. But of course, the likes of people in Dublin Bus are used to Fianna Fail turning round and backing down and giving in to their every demand, so of course they're not going to like it when they can't bully people to get their own way again.

As for the Dublin Bus crew dont blame all of them for striking these things come about because of management not listening or having a real idea of how the place works and not actually working with their own staff. Remember at the end of the day it was MANAGEMENT that triggered the strike not the unions they were warned well in advance what would happen if they tried forcing these changes without agreement.

The company needs to save almost €12m. If the company does not turn this around, then the company may cease to be. Also with competitive tendering coming up, it's likely that cost will play a part in who will win each tender. If the company has a high cost base, it makes it more likely that they can't win the tender which will weaken your own job security. Negotiations have been going on for 14 months, I think the company have given the unions more than enough time to resolve this, yet still they won't put any ideas ont he table of how they would save the money that needs saving.

Carrying on as is, is not an option. The sooner staff realise that the better. If you don't then you seriously need a reality check.

Noone likes striking but many people are so frustrated and fed up with the way things are being done were feeling its the only way to send a message to both management and the sellout goverment that weve had enough of their messing about and were gonna do something about it. Many complain here some out of frustration others out of ignorance (the what about people without a job argument is one of them) but when you consider 15~20 years ago how bad pay and conditions were in these companies and how long it took to bring them up to a reasonable standard, you really thing staff would let things go back to the way they were?

That is exactly the kind of comment that loses you my support. You don't have it bad, people have it far worse than you but you carry on saying how you have it so bad, it really doesn't wash with me. A large number of people who work in the public sector have no idea how things work and what it's like outside their own little bubble, and then they dismiss people who suffer far more than them, as being ignorant, and we've already had one person on your side today attack the disabled, which is quite frankly sick and doesn't do your side of the story any good with the genuine people of the public.

The company cannot afford to retain the current terms and conditions. That is a simple fact, if you don't have the money, you can't pay it else the company goes bust. I'd totally agree with your points if the company were cutting your terms and conditions and pay if they were a company who were sound financially, but they're not, and carrying on as is, is not an option.

Grandeeod

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

The unions have agreed to the propsed cuts that the LC have recommended but the staff have rejected them. What the staff want is zero cuts and its up to the unions and DB to come up with plan B which you won't know until its agreed.

FFS! So that's why I heard a union member claiming the union sold them out. And where do the staff believe these savings should be made?

Heisenberg1

Grandeeod wrote: »

FFS! So that's why I heard a union member claiming the union sold them out. And where do the staff believe these savings should be made?

The unions didn't sell them out as such that was the best the unions could negotiate with DB and LC recommend they take the deal.

Infini

devnull wrote: »

The company cannot afford to retain the current terms and conditions. That is a simple fact, if you don't have the money, you can't pay it else the company goes bust. I'd totally agree with your points if the company were cutting your terms and conditions and pay if they were a company who were sound financially, but they're not, and carrying on as is, is not an option.

The 3 companies were never gonna be profitable so long as they have to provide for a public service. If they were private then everything unprofitable would be cut this includes off peak services as well as drivers and staff. Thats what many people fail to realise. Private companies only provide for stuff that makes money only. They dont provide for loss making routes and services. Even that 10% privatisation of routes people THINK will make things better wont work unless the private company is paid a subvention to cover ANY losses. How is that any different than a public service then? Many think privatisation is something that will fix so called inefficiencies but I doubt that expecially since things in this country tend to be done for short term gains and not long term.

Would I agree that reforms need to be made? Sure but they need to make sense and be done In a way that the majority of people find it workable. My personal opinion would be that the companies be rebuilt from the ground up with staff orgainised where theyre needed most and management done with the least amount of bueurecratic bull not this whole cut cut cut and your doing this job with nolife conditions etc crap.

devnull

Infini2 wrote: »

The 3 companies were never gonna be profitable so long as they have to provide for a public service. If they were private then everything unprofitable would be cut this includes off peak services as well as drivers and staff. Thats what many people fail to realise.

I don't expect them to make a profit, but I also don't expect them to make a loss of the amount that Dublin Bus are making year after year, constantly handing over money no questions ask means that there is no incentive to provide an efficent service at the lowest possible cost to the taxpayer, whilst at the same time providing an acceptable standard of service. If you keep handing more and more money over, there is no incentive for a company not to make a loss, if they know however wide their losses go, they will always be bailed out.

Private companies only provide for stuff that makes money only. They dont provide for loss making routes and services. Even that 10% privatisation of routes people THINK will make things better wont work unless the private company is paid a subvention to cover ANY losses. How is that any different than a public service then?

Any monopoly is never efficient. And competition always drives down prices. Look at the 747, every other bus route has had price rises every year, we're told largely due to increased costs of doing business and higher fuel costs, yet this route has not been touched for many years. Why is this? Of course, because there is competition and this is just proof that competition, whether that is head to head, or for tendering, prices are lowered, since companies know they won't get the business by default. This is not just in the transport industry, monopolies are bad for consumers full stop in any business.

Would I agree that reforms need to be made? Sure but they need to make sense and be done In a way that the majority of people find it workable.

The reforms need to be made because the company is losing money, and because of the depth of it, no staff can get away without taking some of the hit, be that drivers, clerical staff, inspectors or management. It has to be done in a way that will achieve the necessary savings first and foremost, or else we'll just end up in the same position 12 months later.

My personal opinion would be that the companies be rebuilt from the ground up with staff orgainised where theyre needed most and management done with the least amount of bueurecratic bull not this whole cut cut cut and your doing this job with nolife conditions etc crap.

Both me and you know that is not realistic or possible to do in the real world in any company, never mind Dublin Bus, so how about you put forward some possible, credible alternatives on how you are going to raise the needed money. I am sure there is waste in management that could result in savings, but as I said before, management is not the sole problem, and itself will not solve the current isuses.

Gael23

If this drags on without resolution and other companies become involved then I assume the minister will be forced to intervene?

dowlingm

bmaxi wrote: »

It's still a lot better than zero hour workers in some of our retailers who need to be on the end of a phone, he's got a permanent job where he's guaranteed work every day.
There are some valid arguments in the drivers' case but this isn't one of them.

Zero hour contracts are a social abomination which should be outlawed. Instead of protecting even the most basic conditions of employment we have Boardsters crying "Sack them all, labour and employment law be damned" and the Government undermining from the other direction with Jobbridge.

I can only imagine what "Boards" would have been like if they existed a hundred years ago when Larkin tried to unionise DUTC among others.

They should replace "The great appear great because we are on our knees: Let us rise" with "Are you people for real?"

Goldstein

Talk about living in a fantasy land. This is what you get when the massive sense of entitlement that still exists in the minds of hundreds of thousands in this country meets a decades bloated overpaid fatcat public service that's grown far too powerful for everyone's good. I know a couple of bus drivers and they're both damning of the waste of money they see day in and day out. Privatise it and see how they get on in the real world.

Hilly Bill

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

Bus drivers saying that disabled people should get over their sense of tentitlements' I think that is the most offensive post on this thread'

stop the poor poor me stuff

Isnt that what those giving out about the strike are doing?

Gatling

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Isnt that what those giving out about the strike are doing?

They / we / I've grievance with this stupid and unwanted strike ,
The government should now withdraw all funding and let the company fold

garhjw

dowlingm wrote: »

Zero hour contracts are a social abomination which should be outlawed. Instead of protecting even the most basic conditions of employment we have Boardsters crying "Sack them all, labour and employment law be damned" and the Government undermining from the other direction with Jobbridge.

I can only imagine what "Boards" would have been like if they existed a hundred years ago when Larkin tried to unionise DUTC among others.

They should replace "The great appear great because we are on our knees: Let us rise" with "Are you people for real?"

Stay in Canada, this country does not need more people like you.

miller50841

Gatling wrote: »

They / we / I've grievance with this stupid and unwanted strike ,
The government should now withdraw all funding and let the company fold

Same argument with the banks It will effect too many of their friends.

monument

garhjw wrote: »

Stay in Canada, this country does not need more people like you.

Banned for trolling.

Stephen P

I don't suppose the LUAS is accepting DB travel passes?

ebbsy

And what about Tuesday ?

If they are serious about this they will strike that day as well.

dublinbusdude

Stephen P wrote: »

I don't suppose the LUAS is accepting DB travel passes?

Only Luas/Dublin Bus tickets!

ebbsy wrote: »

And what about Tuesday ?

If they are serious about this they will strike that day as well.

I say it going be a long strike as drivers will not stop until its sorted!

Look at July 1984, Phibsboro Garage was on for months (that was pre Dublin Bus)

miller50841

Stephen P wrote: »

I don't suppose the LUAS is accepting DB travel passes?

No but Dublin Bus always accommodate them and Dart.

Strike is different they may if it happened to be a certain route they may not cover an area the other does due to some problem but don't ever hear of it.

Hilly Bill

Gatling wrote: »

They / we / I've grievance with this stupid and unwanted strike ,
The government should now withdraw all funding and let the company fold

Its part theirs and its what they are trying to do. If the employees except these cuts then the government will force Dublin bus to make more cuts next year and every year because they got away with it twice.
At least these employees have a back bone and actually stand up to the government unlike some people who's only way of voicing their concern is on internet forums and will accept anything without actually doing something about it.

What i find strange is that you are giving out about the strike being stupid and unwanted but want the company to fold which will still lead to no buses on the road .