Dublin Bus strike from Sunday 04/08 [called off - service resumes 07/08]

cdebru

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

Read the accounts

I don't need to, if you are counting total wage costs divided by total number of employees that is as useful as a chocolate teapot.

end of the road

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Why does DB mgt not simply follow the Ryanair method at this point and simply refuse to recognise and deal with the unions?

because their a state run company who aren't entitled and rightly so not to deal with the unions, infact it should be illegal for any company not to recognise unions, and i wouldn't want to work for anyone who operates like Ryanair thanks, would rather no job

SandyfordGuy

cdebru wrote: »

I don't need to, if you are counting total wage costs divided by total number of employees that is as useful as a chocolate teapot.

that is what average wage is

sorry h you don't understand basic economic'

it is based on all the factually proven info we have

but I forgot a porter on boards should be believed more

Anything that does not quit your agenda you dismiss

head buried in sand

_Kaiser_

end of the road wrote: »

because their a state run company who aren't entitled and rightly so not to deal with the unions, infact it should be illegal for any company not to recognise unions, and i wouldn't want to work for anyone who operates like Ryanair thanks, would rather no job

You clearly haven't worked much in the private sector then as any company I've worked for has never recognized unions - they don't prohibit you joining one, but they don't have to deal with them either.

bmaxi

cdebru wrote: »

cough " free travel scheme" cough

You keep saying this, yet you give no evidence to substantiate it nor to suggest where the transport companies will get the money to replace it. Either put up or shut up.

cdebru

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

that is what average wage is

sorry h you don't understand basic economic'

it is based on all the factually proven info we have

but I forgot a porter on boards should be believed more

Anything that does not quit your agenda you dismiss

head buried in sand

I actually understand economics and statistics so I know that unless you know the standard deviation an average is an unreliable statistic.

so have you calculated the standard deviation for this average?

So let me tell you what I do know, a bus driver in Dublin bus on the top scale earns about 720 euro a week, if they work a Sunday in that week they earn about 820 euro that week. That includes their shift allowance.

Not all drivers work Sundays, those that do work 2 out of 5 Sundays so those that don't work any Sundays earn about 37,500 euro a year those that work Sundays would earn about 2000 euro a year more roughly. Either way both are below the average industrial wage for Ireland in 2013.

Gatling

So nearly 40k a year to drive a bus 5 days a week
That doesnt take into account "personal days" and uncertified sick days

hytrogen

markpb wrote: »

...
If the recovery teams are out on the streets, it's because a bus load of passengers have been left stranded by a broken down bus. All the people further down the route waiting on that bus are also up the creek. All the people waiting on routes that that bus was scheduled to operate late may also be impacted.

sure there's always another one coming down the road, oh wait that's in other cities! :P

cdebru

Gatling wrote: »

So nearly 40k a year to drive a bus 5 days a week
That doesnt take into account "personal days" and uncertified sick days

whats a personal day ?

7 uncertified sick days a year but they don't increase the amount of pay.

carpejugulum

cdebru wrote: »

whats a personal day ?

7 uncertified sick days a year but they don't increase the amount of pay.

Are they subtracted from your salary?

foggy_lad

cdebru wrote: »

whats a personal day ?

7 uncertified sick days a year but they don't increase the amount of pay.

That is 4 more days than most civil servants get! they are nothing more than alco-holidays if workers cant survive on 2-3 per year

bmaxi

So, all these 1.1 million ( which I doubt) live in Dublin Bus commuter belt? All are regular Dublin bus commuters? Dublin Bus are running services solely for their benefit? There is no fraud perpetrated on Dublin Bus? Dublin Bus polices it's services adequately? Dublin Bus will have no problem in finding an extra E20million this year on top of the E12million they have to find? Then there's next year and the year after ad infinitum.
You think all this is going to happen and everything is going to carry on as before? Think again. Dublin Bus will be broken up and sold to the highest bidder.

BuffyBot

I've just had to do a clean up on this thread: folks, please heed the earlier on thread warnings and the forum charter (specifically the parts about attacking other users). I won't be issuing more reminders, but moderator actions.

Peppa Pig

Anyone know how strike pay works?
If a driver earns €800 per week, how much strike pay are they likely to get and how is it administered, eg do the union send the tax to the revenue?

foggy_lad

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Anyone know how strike pay works?
If a driver earns €800 per week, how much strike pay are they likely to get and how is it administered, eg do the union send the tax to the revenue?

Afaik they will get no strike pay unless the dispute is over a prolonged period.

CreepingDeath

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Anyone know how strike pay works?
If a driver earns €800 per week, how much strike pay are they likely to get and how is it administered, eg do the union send the tax to the revenue?

You just get a coupon book of food stamps.

miller50841

Rumors going around today are that if it goes ahead the gates to each depot will be shut and locked up.
Security to be posted at each depot.

Seriously who came up with the figure that drivers are on €800 a week.
That is a joke if they were on that money I would have taken up a job with them back when they were hiring.

I find it amazing people giving out about the drivers;
They did not cause the recession,
They did not cause the downturn in passenger numbers,
They do a very stressful job and the sooner people actually notice that the better,
Management expect them to bend over and give up all that was fought for back in the 1980s when wages were rubbish and still are for the job they do,
They have to do shift work and work irregular hours and for the junior staff they don't even know what they are doing till the day before so can't plan for anything.
Health is a big issue due to above mentioned as it's stressful and just an unhealthy job to do.
Drivers have to deal with mentally ill, aggressive, drunk, drug users and anything else you can think off as passengers and then you get to other road users who can be very difficult to deal with also.


I could keep going but I would be here all night.

n97 mini

miller50841 wrote: »

Rumors going around today are that if it goes ahead the gates to each depot will be shut and locked up.
Security to be posted at each depot.

Seriously who came up with the figure that drivers are on €800 a week.
That is a joke if they were on that money I would have taken up a job with them back when they were hiring.

I find it amazing people giving out about the drivers;
They did not cause the recession,
They did not cause the downturn in passenger numbers,
They do a very stressful job and the sooner people actually notice that the better,
Management expect them to bend over and give up all that was fought for back in the 1980s when wages were rubbish and still are for the job they do,
They have to do shift work and work irregular hours and for the junior staff they don't even know what they are doing till the day before so can't plan for anything.
Health is a big issue due to above mentioned as it's stressful and just an unhealthy job to do.
Drivers have to deal with mentally ill, aggressive, drunk, drug users and anything else you can think off as passengers and then you get to other road users who can be very difficult to deal with also.


I could keep going but I would be here all night.

Who should cover the losses? And when are the losses considered too much?

SandyfordGuy

cdebru wrote: »

I actually understand economics and statistics so I know that unless you know the standard deviation an average is an unreliable statistic.

so have you calculateEdd the standard deviation for this average?

So let me tell you what I do know, a bus driver in Dublin bus on the top scale earns about 720 euro a week, if they work a Sunday in that week they earn about 820 euro that week. That includes their shift allowance.

Not all drivers work Sundays, those that do work 2 out of 5 Sundays so those that don't work any Sundays earn about 37,500 euro a year those that work Sundays would earn about 2000 euro a year more roughly. Either way both are below the average industrial wage for Ireland in 2013.

Well it is the only verified figures in the public domain

anyone can come on here and saw we are paid a certain sum but it cannot be verified so to attack someone for using facts then expect us to believe hearsay is nuts"

average is not perfect but is best we have with the verified data in the public domain

prefer to base my calculations on verified info than hearsay' but then again I don't have a vested interest
'

miller50841

n97 mini wrote: »

Who should cover the losses? And when are the losses considered too much?

Fully understand your point I believe the Driver Grade, Clerical and maintenance would agree not happily but would accept a hit if the management were playing fair and that all the recommendations were to be clearly worded and none of the usual small print and other cuts that would come in the back door as they are hidden in translation to what's on the paper.

Vahevala

cdebru wrote: »

whats a personal day ?

7 uncertified sick days a year but they don't increase the amount of pay.

That is just unbelievable! :eek: They just become holiday days for most.

In my job, if I am scheduled to work on a Saturday or a Sunday, I get no extra pay. These people have it better than most so to go on strike for this makes me so mad. I have lost a lot of my perks, I get paid for overtime twice a year and just have to get on with it. In the end of the day, I realise that I am lucky to have the job.

miller50841

Don't start with the lucky to have a job.

We the people are happy you have a job that you contribute and don't drain the state and also for your own sanity having a job is great even if it's not the best job in the world.

The way I look at it is if you or others previous fought for better conditions I wouldn't feel to happy about letting them be taken away easily because what will happen when/if they get these cuts they will come for more very shortly.:rolleyes:

Gatling

Miller 50841 are you an employee of Dublin bus

Stevek101

Has this been brought up yet? With losses running as much as €600,000 a day how long would it take for DB to go tits up? Surely they wouldn't last the week?

miller50841

Gatling wrote: »

Miller 50841 are you an employee of Dublin bus

No have a good friend in the job was letting me know the story.

Gatling

The other side of the grass how the non bus drivers on nearly 40k have to put up with,

Family's with kids who can't afford holidays abroad or even down the country are reliant to get days out around the city and further afield ,

People with medical conditions who can't afford taxis here there and every where ,

Elderly people who have to do there shopping ,pay bills and so on ,

Now the poor down trodden drivers should think hard before they play the victims they won't see a lot of support from the general public actually id expect a backlash

miller50841

Gatling wrote: »

The other side of the grass how the non bus drivers on nearly 40k have to put up with,

Family's with kids who can't afford holidays abroad or even down the country are reliant to get days out around the city and further afield ,

People with medical conditions who can't afford taxis here there and every where ,

Elderly people who have to do there shopping ,pay bills and so on ,

Now the poor down trodden drivers should think hard before they play the victims they won't see a lot of support from the general public actually id expect a backlash

It's management that are forcing this and as I said not only driver's are going out it's clerical staff and maintenance.

Gatling

miller50841 wrote: »

It's management that are forcing this and as I said not only driver's are going out it's clerical staff and maintenance.

Of course there all going out, probably some off on holiday too

miller50841

Gatling wrote: »

Of course there all going out, probably some off on holiday too

Yes but this is a 1st where all are walking off the job before some may not have crossed the picket but it's serious now.

The spokes person for Dublin Bus Cliona Ni Fhatharta is the daughter to the head of one of the unions who was previously a driver...
Mr. Flaherty....

She is on the news all day putting all this on the Drivers, no mention of clerical or maintenance walking off also.

Management need to take a hit also then as I said the rest of the staff would accept some of the changes but as this is going the way it is it's just another attack on Driver's which to a certain degree is unfair and the blame should be on both sides.

devnull

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Now, I don't know the full details but does the 15% drop in fleet size compare directly to a 15% decrease in services?

The figures were posted here a while back with verifiable sources (DB's own data), which suggested that the fleet size may have dropped by a higher percentage than the subsidy.

If not then the buses are being run more often which requires more servicing, fuel, maintenance hours, spare parts, etc.

True, that would increase the costs. However at the same time it'll be balance out somewhat, since not every route will require the same amount of subsidy to run, the lighter used routes, which were cut in network direct, will take a higher percentage of the overall subsidy than the heavier used routes which were not cut back by much.

So if you cut the 15% worst performing routes, that would no doubt use much more than 15% of the overall subsidy since they are lighter used, therefore requiring more subsidy to be viable.

Infini2 wrote: »

Some say that they get €50,000 per year but you should check because usually these quotes are BEFORE taxes are taken into account and usually after thats all taken into account its alot lower.

I'm sure there are many others who wish they were on €50,000 before taxes, I'm certainly not on that these days, neither are many people I know, in fact some people I know are on much lower, and to say that people are having trouble surviving on €50,000, really shows how out of touch some people are with what is going on here. If you cannot survive on €50k you seriously need to reconsider your lifestyle, although it's clear some people still think the boom times are here.

Again dont be so sure of that alot of people assume its better than the rest of the country but its not.

Well my experience is that it is better than a lot of the country. I have worked in the private sector all my life and I know so many people who have it far worse than you.

cdebru wrote: »

Wages in DB are well below 50 grand as well, it would be about 38,500 including shift allowance.
those who work Sundays as well would be
which is below the average industrial wage for Ireland.

How many drivers are there in Dublin Bus out of the overall staff numbers?