Dublin Bus strike from Sunday 04/08 [called off - service resumes 07/08]

devnull

cdebru wrote: »

I don't need to, if you are counting total wage costs divided by total number of employees that is as useful as a chocolate teapot.

But it is the best statistic that can be used, seeing that Dublin Bus don't break down their wage bills by grade or publish such things in their account.

cdebru wrote: »

I actually understand economics and statistics so I know that unless you know the standard deviation an average is an unreliable statistic.

Indeed there are better ways to work things out IF the data is avaliable, but sadly it is not so we have to make use of what is around, and can be verified as being correct. I never include any stats, or arugments on pay from either side from members on here, since quite simply none of the information can be verified. Anyone can come on here claiming they are only paid this much, just as someone can come on here and say they are paying a lot more, I don't use such figures from either side since anyone on either side can pick a figure out of their arse and post it here claiming it is correct, doesn't mean it is.

miller50841 wrote: »

They did not cause the recession, They did not cause the downturn in passenger numbers,

They did not cause the recession, but the treatment I've seen by a small section of drivers recently who refuse to use middle doors ever at all costs is annoying some people and the dwell time at some stops is terrible simply because buses stay at stops for much longer than they need to. That is something they can do to retain passengers, if you keep passengers happy they will return, if you see them as an inconvenience you are in the wrong job. As you noticed, the passenger numbers are going down which does not help the situation of your company and therefore your wages. So you should be doing everything you can to keep the public happy when you drive and interact with the in a positive way to keep them coming back.

They do a very stressful job.

Many others do too, but almost all are paid less than Dublin Bus staff.

when wages were rubbish and still are for the job they do.

I can't believe that not only are you saying you won't take cuts, but you actually deserve to be paid more?

They have to do shift work and work irregular hours and for the junior staff they don't even know what they are doing till the day before so can't plan for anything. Health is a big issue due to above mentioned as it's stressful and just an unhealthy job to do.

If they don't like it, then nobody is holding a gun to their head and saying they have to stay. Many people knew this before signing up for the job, that they would have to deal with it, I don't think anyone was forced to apply and accept a job in Dublin Bus. As I said, if they don't like it, leave and find employment elsewhere. That is what happens in the private sector.

Drivers have to deal with mentally ill, aggressive, drunk, drug users and anything else you can think off as passengers and then you get to other road users who can be very difficult to deal with also.

And it's not nice I agree, but it's part of driving a bus, and serving the public, just like taxi drivers have to deal with as well and anyone who interacts with the public. I see a junkie causing havoc in Spar the other day and a whole load of them follow in. Does this mean they should be paid more too? If you don't like it, you can always find a job where you don't need to deal with the public face to face.


I could keep going but I would be here all night.[/QUOTE]

miller50841 wrote: »

Fully understand your point I believe the Driver Grade, Clerical and maintenance would agree not happily but would accept a hit if the management were playing fair and that all the recommendations were to be clearly worded and none of the usual small print and other cuts that would come in the back door as they are hidden in translation to what's on the paper.

Everyone has to take a share of the cuts, and due to the sheer number of drivers, to make any impact on the savings that need to be made, need to raise a big part of that. Of course Clerical and Maintinance and management should play a part too, but even a big cut to management, would raise far less money than a small cut to management due to the numbers involved.

miller50841 wrote: »

We the people are happy you have a job that you contribute and don't drain the state and also for your own sanity having a job is great even if it's not the best job in the world.

The irony of someone being happy that others don't drain the state, but then drain the state themselves.

The way I look at it is if you or others previous fought for better conditions I wouldn't feel to happy about letting them be taken away easily because what will happen when/if they get these cuts they will come for more very shortly.:rolleyes:

If a company is losing money, and is deep in the red, in the private sector they do not get bailed out by subsidy or any kind of government grant, they go bust and shut down and everyone loses their jobs. Do you really expect people to say,"Sure, I know we're close to going bust, but I won't take a pay cut of any kind" the refusal to take the cut could be the different from being in or out of a job a few months down the line.

But I forgot, public sector workers don't know what it's like to be in such situation, because even when a company is losing money heavily, they insist that they will not take any cuts to help their company out, it's like the socialist party mantra, if something is losing money, just keep on spending regardless. That is what Fianna Fail did, rather than dealing with the situation far earlier before it got to the stage when this country was well and truly up the swanny. The fact is costs have to be reduced in Dublin Bus, going on as is is not an option, the company is losing money and that needs to be addressed. Asking the government to bail you out every time is not the answer.

Stevek101 wrote: »

Has this been brought up yet? With losses running as much as €600,000 a day how long would it take for DB to go tits up? Surely they wouldn't last the week?

Well that is why a strike could be counter-productive, as it will weaken the company even more financially, so that they may need to achieve even bigger savings in the future to offset more money being lost, this is why we could end up here 6 to 12 months late.r

miller50841 wrote: »

No have a good friend in the job was letting me know the story.

There's lots of people on here who know a lot, and post a lot about the subject so passionately but claim they are not directly involved, I'm sure it's because you don't want to get outed by Dublin Bus, but I see through it.

miller50841 wrote: »

It's management that are forcing this and as I said not only driver's are going out it's clerical staff and maintenance.

miller50841 wrote: »

Management need to take a hit also then as I said the rest of the staff would accept some of the changes but as this is going the way it is it's just another attack on Driver's which to a certain degree is unfair and the blame should be on both sides.

Management do indeed need to take some of the cut, but as I've explained, a big cut to management will not save anywhere near the amount that needs to be saved, since there are not many of them, a smaller cut to drivers will generate more overall.

carpejugulum

miller50841 wrote: »

but this is a 1st where all are walking off the job before some may not have crossed the picket but it's serious now.

And the strike will magically cover your losses ... forever.
Union bosses are laughing all the way to the bank.

Also, mentioning DB mgmt all the time is pointless.
That incompetent bunch should have been fired a long time ago as it is the worst city public transport I've seen.
Or DB should have been put into PPP a long time ago. I'd like to see how you would strike then.

glossy

just wanted to ask will the nite link not be operating then sat/sun ?

n97 mini

glossy wrote: »

just wanted to ask will the nite link not be operating then sat/sun ?

I would probably assume the worst.

n97 mini

I didn't realise how much stuff is on this weekend, presumably bank holiday weekend multiplied by the Gathering. Such a shame a lot of people, including us, can't go to what we want to (Big House festival, Celbridge, Jack L playing) on Sunday.

Gatling

n97 mini wrote: »

I didn't realise how much stuff is on this weekend, presumably bank holiday weekend multiplied by the Gathering. Such a shame a lot of people, including us, can't go to what we want to (Big House festival, Celbridge, Jack L playing) on Sunday.

That was the whole idea maximum disruption to the general public ,

Dub13

Gatling wrote: »

That was the whole idea maximum disruption to the general public ,

You are forgetting one thing, Dublin Bus the company picked the date not the unions.

foggy_lad

Dub13 wrote: »

You are forgetting one thing, Dublin Bus the company picked the date not the unions.

The unions and staff decided to strike not the company.

miller50841

Does anyone ever have a nice thing or possitive thing to say.

I do not work for the company not that that's any of your business.

My Father use to years ago and have 2 friends that work for the company.

It's the usual stuff they have a thick skin at this stage with all the abuse and everything else thrown at them.

As already mentioned management need to take a cut.
Then move onto the over payed super checkers and the highly paid inspectors.
The idea of sending a car to follow the 2 or 3 ticket checkers that will board a bus is laughable to be honest.

Fare prices need to be tweaked and a easier system such as only 2 fare's instead of 4 eg. €1.50 and €2.50 and that's it.

Use the real time boards to show a delay or break down etc...

Tag on/off should be used as to speed things up and help cut out any confusion.

Grandeeod

Big Union/DB meeting tomorrow that will last well into the early hours of Sunday morning and a resolution will be reached! That's how these Union heads do it. They are the biggest insomniacs I Know!

Polar101

Vahevala wrote: »

That is just unbelievable! :eek: They just become holiday days for most.

Well, just because someone has uncertified sick days doesn't mean they always use them all. I'd assume that is the case at Dublin Bus as well?

I have 2 such days, but I have never used any of them.

I don't also really understand the 'Dublin Bus drivers are overpaid' -argument in this thread. Their wages don't seem to be particularly high, and the shift work seems pretty tough. If I take the bus in the morning at 7, and head back home at around 5 in the afternoon, the bus I take is always driven by the same driver - even if he/she has a few hours off in the middle of the day, it doesn't seem like a shift I'd like to work.

(Disclaimer: I don't work for Dublin Bus, and don't know any drivers. I work in the private sector)

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

The unions and staff decided to strike not the company.

Its not the unions thats decide to strike its the staff. The unions only represent the staff.

n97 mini

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Its not the unions thats decide to strike its the staff. The unions only represent the staff.

The unions took the decision to ballot the staff.

Gatling

n97 mini wrote: »

The unions took the decision to ballot the staff.

And who makes money while everybody else suffers oh yeah the unions

Hilly Bill

n97 mini wrote: »

The unions took the decision to ballot the staff.

Because they are working for the staff and its the normal course of action once the proposals are rejected by the staff. The staff themselves are the Union.

Hilly Bill

Gatling wrote: »

And who makes money while everybody else suffers oh yeah the unions

How do you work that one out? Do you think they get a bonus or something for a strike?

_Kaiser_

Hilly Bill wrote: »

How do you work that one out? Do you think they get a bonus or something for a strike?

Presumably he means the unions still get their membership fees and nice salaries regardless of the outcome or impact to staff or the company.

carpejugulum

Polar101 wrote: »

I don't also really understand the 'Dublin Bus drivers are overpaid' -argument in this thread. Their wages don't seem to be particularly high

Tell us in which countries city bus drivers earn more and how many of those countries are bankrupt.

Gatling

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Presumably he means the unions still get their membership fees and nice salaries regardless of the outcome or impact to staff or the company.

Exactly ,

Hilly Bill

But what has it got to do with a strike?

Sierra Oscar

Grandeeod wrote: »

Big Union/DB meeting tomorrow that will last well into the early hours of Sunday morning and a resolution will be reached! That's how these Union heads do it. They are the biggest insomniacs I Know!

Is there? The Labour Relations Commission have said that they have not been requested to attend any talks today, and that none are currently scheduled.

Naturally that will change from tomorrow, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was disruption into early next week.

Lifelike

DB have confirmed on their twitter and facebook that no Nitelinks will operate tonight, and that services are unlikely to operate tomorrow. I think it's safe to say that Westmoreland st and D'Olier st will be no-go areas tonight :pac:

I can see this going the same way as the BÉ dispute, 2 or 3 days of disruption and then the strike shall be 'suspended' while talks resume.

Esoteric_

I'm going to have fun trying to get to work tomorrow and monday and however many other days the strike lasts for. :mad: ugh.

The Narrator

Just wondering if anyone knows how much these drivers are paid?

Was reading an article which said they were unhappy with what would equate to a €94 cut in daily wage for drivers. I'm guessing that cut relates to wages during celtic tiger periods.

Having said that, a €94 a day cut and still be making a decent wage, the way I see it is that these guys must be making insane money for what they are doing.

jd83

What a joke. Really wish they would just come up with a way to privatize the transport sector with strong legislation to make sure all areas of the community were covered adequately.

As a company their laughable, working on projects to put wifi on buses when they cant even perform their basic function of getting the public from A to B in a timely manner.



The crappy service we get for having the 3rd highest paid bus "pilots" in Europe!

devnull

Those figures are several years old now though, so using such is not valid.

I'd argue the pecking order may have changed, and Dublin would be a place or two lower, but salaries have gone up across all countries since then, plus it's in US Dollars, and the exchange rate from then has changed dramatically to weaken the dollar.

The Wifi was paid for by the National Transport Authority as far as I'm aware, since they funded the vehicles it is on.

ixoy

cdebru wrote: »

Not all drivers work Sundays, those that do work 2 out of 5 Sundays so those that don't work any Sundays earn about 37,500 euro a year those that work Sundays would earn about 2000 euro a year more roughly. Either way both are below the average industrial wage for Ireland in 2013.

Just to confirm: 37,500 is your gross salary and not your net salary right?

Nodster

NO Nightlink services Saturday

http://dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/General-News/Dublin-Bus-Holding-News-Story/

Amirani

The sooner the privatisation of Dublin Bus routes start, the better. I'm extremely pissed at having to go without a Bus service tomorrow and I know many others are the same. I'll be championing the inevitable breakup of the company, and I say that as someone with a lot of family ties to CIE. Zero sympathy for drivers that strike tomorrow.

miller50841

NiallSparky wrote: »

The sooner the privatisation of Dublin Bus routes start, the better. I'm extremely pissed at having to go without a Bus service tomorrow and I know many others are the same. I'll be championing the inevitable breakup of the company, and I say that as someone with a lot of family ties to CIE. Zero sympathy for drivers that strike tomorrow.

It's not only Drivers that are going on strike.

Inspectors, Clerical and Maintenance staff are walking off the job also.

Please everybody read into things better and stop attacking just the Drivers.

There is no way that Dublin Bus drivers are on those wages any more my father worked back in the eighties where the wages were buttons and no perks or benefits.

He and many others fought long and hard for what the drivers have today and obviously there would be drivers from that era still working there.

It's not all sugar and spice.

I love the comments of all the ones saying how the people on the dole and out of work would jump at the chance to be a driver, well Im sorry but these would have been and may still be the type that look down upon the Drivers as uneducated and just plain stupid.

There are a lot of people in that job that have all sorts of education and skills but due to the way this country goes there was no work for most that came out of college or their jobs dried up.

Just look at the bigger picture before you comment.