Dublin Bus strike from Sunday 04/08 [called off - service resumes 07/08]

ThisRegard

the big show wrote: »

I am also effected by this strike however II support the workers on strike. They like the rest of us have already taken cuts Iin pay and are asked to take more cuts . Maybe its time for other unions to join them and call a general strike in protest against austerity . I would urge anybody effected to not take this out on staff but rather on minister varadkarand his failed government. Remember its an essential public service that they would love to privatise like our bin collections

Firstly, the previous government failed the country and left it in the state it is.

You can be guaranteed in a private company there wouldn't be over a year of negotiations, a company in a similar situation would be relentless in redundancies, pay cuts and restructuring in order to survive.

Infini

the big show wrote: »

I am also effected by this strike however II support the workers on strike. They like the rest of us have already taken cuts Iin pay and are asked to take more cuts . Maybe its time for other unions to join them and call a general strike in protest against austerity . I would urge anybody effected to not take this out on staff but rather on minister varadkarand his failed government. Remember its an essential public service that they would love to privatise like our bin collections

Pretty much this is what the goverment are afraid of. Was the same with Bus Eirann they were afraid at the time that DB and IR would strike as well and it would spread out to other sectors as well.

As for the whole LRC thing just because they recommend something doesnt mean it acceptable or viable for the workers.

Crucifix

All the announcements and news stories I've seen just mention no service today specifically, any word if they're planning to continue on into the week?

n97 mini

From the piece quoted from RTE above it sounds like they won't give on any of their pay and conditions.

The measures involve paycuts for executive and managment grades, longer working hours and cuts in annual leave for clerical staff and management.

There is no cut to core pay for drivers, but there are reductions to overtime rates, premium payments and changes to rosters

Heisenberg1

Devilman40k wrote: »

Yet...

Slip through and the NBRU would need to ballot its staff in IE in order to

support DB otherwise it would be unofficial action.

Devilman40k

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

Slip through and the NBRU would need to ballot its staff in IE in order to

support DB otherwise it would be unofficial action.

NBRU's asst gen sec has already said Irish Rail members will not "stand idly by" if the cuts are imposed. If that's the case they are ready - they've never been shy of taking action in the past

Infini

Devilman40k wrote: »

NBRU's asst gen sec has already said Irish Rail members will not "stand idly by" if the cuts are imposed. If that's the case they are ready - they've never been shy of taking action in the past

Have heard rumors from down the line that if the DB strike were to go on longer than a week Irish Rail would strike as well but as I said thats only if it goes on long term.

Heisenberg1

Devilman40k wrote: »

NBRU's asst gen sec has already said Irish Rail members will not "stand idly by" if the cuts are imposed. If that's the case they are ready - they've never been shy of taking action in the past

Even so my point is that any action by IE staff would require official notification

to IE which would require a ballot of IE staff. I think that's just scare tactics

form the NBRU.

Get Real

miller50841 wrote: »

I find it amazing people giving out about the drivers;
They did not cause the recession,
They did not cause the downturn in passenger numbers,
They do a very stressful job and the sooner people actually notice that the better,
Management expect them to bend over and give up all that was fought for back in the 1980s when wages were rubbish and still are for the job they do,
They have to do shift work and work irregular hours and for the junior staff they don't even know what they are doing till the day before so can't plan for anything.
Health is a big issue due to above mentioned as it's stressful and just an unhealthy job to do.
Drivers have to deal with mentally ill, aggressive, drunk, drug users and anything else you can think off as passengers and then you get to other road users who can be very difficult to deal with also.


I could keep going but I would be here all night.

While I respect anyones right to strike, I still am slightly baffled by these statements (im open to correction of course)

What about all the other people who are on FAR LESS pay and conditions who have to deal with what you outlined above, who can't get to work today

I saw another post saying people in Dublin Bus are talented, educated and people look down on them and their pay needs to be protected.

First things first I admire and respect Bus Drivers, some of them are dead funny, many extremely sound.

What about all the highly educated graduates, talented people, personable people, people with trades, who have to work in hotels, bars, fast food, street promotions.

This is where I think you're argument above fails- whatever about the pay, striking against cuts etc. For the love of god, do not start with the abuse, drunk people, shift work. While I agree Bus Drivers deal with this, there's one HUGE difference. There's few jobs where no specific trade/degree is required where a salary and benifits are provided, the job is fairly secure and its better paid than all the other people just as qualified, that aren't on a salary, that put up with the same sh1te from people, that are less respected and don't have benefits. Also, these people are working for companies that are making money, and they're still getting their pay cut, and DB are losing money???!!!

I respect the fact that DB pay needs to be respected and fought for. But at least they could respect there are people who are less lucky to have that kind of job, even though they're just as qualified, who are left stranded today. Because all I've heard is how DB seems to be the only company in Ireland having it bad.

Hootanany

Infini2 wrote: »

1) Rail/Luas hasnt gone on strike
2) Cutbacks they cant be bothered to pay the army to do the same thing as in the 80s :P

I dont think they paid the Army last time

_CreeD_

No one is entitled to a job. Simple as that, if a service unsustainable at a certain cost level then no amount of strikes will fix it. You can argue rights etc. until the moon comes home but the simple fact is that even an amoeba has to fight for it's place in the world - we're no different. respect for a working person does not mean sustaining an unrealistic cost for everyone else in the current economy. If you don't like it, retrain, find something else that is lucrative enough to meet your expectations.
Sorry if this seems cold but the simple fact is that one person's expense is another's gain. You have to fight for yours, not expect it.

Delta2113

Army trucks cant be used because of health and safety. The Army wont use the Buses - no chance. This strike might get very dirty - e.g. picket across both Luas lines - result no Luas. Irish Rail would come out soon enough.


Séamus Brennan (r.i.p.) tried to take on Dublin Bus workers and failed miserably.

Tramps Like Us

Max001 wrote: »

Just read on RTE.ie that the Dublin Bus strike is going ahead today.

As a disabled person with limited mobility who relies on Dublin Bus to get anywhere further than a hundred odd yards, I want to say thank you very much to the Siptu and Nbru members who voted for this strike.

I rarely see Dublin Bus drivers taking any extra care when driving with disabled passengers. Some drivers are helpful. Many don't seem to care and make getting on and off the bus dangerous.

Even if drivers were providing a gold standard of service to passengers, a strike still wouldn't be justified. But you don't. The service you provide is mediocre at best.

What will a strike do except cost Dublin Bus money and the end result will be the tax payers taking a hit. Plus, those same tax payers will be inconvenienced, as for many, bus is their only means of transport around the city. Double whammy against Dublin Bus users and to what end?

I'm not anti-union. I believe unions have a useful place in society. However, considering the state the country is in, we all have to make sacrifices and above all, engage constructively with other stakeholders.

Siptu generally is quick enough to demand management implement Labour Court decisions where it suits their members. However in this instance, if Siptu are seeking to use a strike to overturn a Labour Court ruling that it doesn't like, this demonstrates how morally bankrupt Siptu is.

What is constructive about this strike? :mad: (rhetorical)

Get over yourself, really. Sense of entitlement from some people is unbelievable, its not the bus drivers fault (who have already taken cuts, as well as been subjected to all the other taxes like us all) that you are disabled. It has been clear that this trike was coming, its not as if it was out of the blue. The blame lies with management and the govt, not the unions, who no doubt are trying to throw in the towel as we speak, no matter what the membership want.

Maybe you should learn more about this, the LC recommendation is temporary, management want it permanently.

alphamule

****e working conditions for alot of these drivers. Guy I know doesnt even know what route he is working till he goes in that day.

The management need a kick in the arse. Treat their workers better.

All the moaners couldnt give two hoots once the bus comes!

n97 mini

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

the LC recommendation is temporary, management want it permanently.

And the drivers are blocking bringing it in at all, even temporarily, it would seem.

garhjw

Sickening that people actual support these lazy wasters. Shows what is wrong with this country

n97 mini

alphamule wrote: »

****e working conditions for alot of these drivers. Guy I know doesnt even know what route he is working till he goes in that day.

So what!

Delta2113

garhjw wrote: »

Sickening that people actual support these lazy wasters. Shows what is wrong with this country

- I presume you mean the Government.

alphamule

n97 mini wrote: »

So what!

He is unable to have anytime type of a life. Doesn't know when or where he will be working!

So what! Say that to one of their faces.

n97 mini

alphamule wrote: »

He is unable to have anytime type of a life. Doesn't know when or where he will be working!

So what! Say that to one of their faces.

If this is an issue why hasn't it been brought up?

alphamule

n97 mini wrote: »

If this is an issue why hasn't it been brought up?

Have you seen a driver being interviewed?

lods

There is no cut to core pay for drivers, but there are reductions to overtime rates, premium payments and changes to rosters, in particular to accommodate new summer timetables.

I think we've all had to take cuts in the private sector. They should hire more drivers & have no overtime.Having said that the subvention is a lot less than other cities in Europe. 29% V 39% in London.

Public Service Obligation (PSO) Payments

Each year public funding is provided to Dublin Bus by way of contract with the National Transport Authority (NTA). This funding is based on the premise that Dublin Bus provides a service which is “socially necessary but financially unviable1. In 2011, Dublin Bus received a PSO payment of €73million which amounts to 41 percent of the company’s revenue for that year. The PSO payment was reduced to €69million in 2012. Table 1 shows the PSO payments and total revenue for Dublin Bus from 2003 to 2011. The PSO payments have declined steadily from 2008 and are set to continue as the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport confirmed a further PSO reduction of at least six percent in 2013. Company revenue has also declined significantly over this period from €203.7 million in 2008 to €178.3 million in 2011, a reduction of 12.5 percent.


http://www.publicpolicy.ie/tag/dublin-bus/

devnull

Delta2113 wrote: »

This strike might get very dirty - e.g. picket across both Luas lines - result no Luas. Irish Rail would come out soon enough.

The Luas has nothing to do with this, if you start picketing groups which have nothing to do with CIE I hope you are dealt with the same of any other person who will block the Luas. You would also lose even more of the public support you have, you have no business disrupting services which are nothing to do with you.

Séamus Brennan (r.i.p.) tried to take on Dublin Bus workers and failed miserably.

And the company is in such a great state right now isn't it?

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

Get over yourself, really. Sense of entitlement from some people is unbelievable, its not the bus drivers fault (who have already taken cuts, as well as been subjected to all the other taxes like us all) that you are disabled. It has been clear that this trike was coming, its not as if it was out of the blue.

The company is losing money. It needs to save money, either by increasing revenue or by reducing the costs, that has to be done and cannot happen by cutting management alone as it is impossible to generate that level of savings without touching the front line staff. It's unfortunate but the company is losing money and something needs to change.

However the attitude of saying that disabled people have too much of a sense of entitlement is quite frankly offensive to me. I would much rather have my taxes paying to help the disabled rather than paying your wages when you have an attitude like that. It's not your fault that the person is disabled, but quite frankly disabled people have it far worse than you, and simply telling them to get over it when you from a much better position are moaning yourselves, is quite frankly sick.

alphamule wrote: »

The management need a kick in the arse. Treat their workers better.

What do you expect them to do? The company is losing money and this has to be addressed. This is economic basics, a company cannot continue losing money or it ceases to exist. The taxpayer can't keep bailing you out.

BuffyBot

I'd caution all posters to read the forum charter before posting again.

If you have to resort to name calling, lazy rhetoric, making statements like "get over yourself", generalisations or anything else that isn't constructive, you're going to find your time on this forum shortened.

devnull

lods wrote: »

Each year public funding is provided to Dublin Bus by way of contract with the National Transport Authority (NTA). This funding is based on the premise that Dublin Bus provides a service which is “socially necessary but financially unviable1. In 2011, Dublin Bus received a PSO payment of €73million which amounts to 41 percent of the company’s revenue for that year. The PSO payment was reduced to €69million in 2012. Table 1 shows the PSO payments and total revenue for Dublin Bus from 2003 to 2011. The PSO payments have declined steadily from 2008 and are set to continue as the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport confirmed a further PSO reduction of at least six percent in 2013. Company revenue has also declined significantly over this period from €203.7 million in 2008 to €178.3 million in 2011, a reduction of 12.5 percent.

As part of network direct, Dublin Bus cut staff members, cut it's fleet by approx 200 buses and stopped running a number of those services which the PSO was used to fund, as they cut the number of unviable services, they no longer got paid for them, which is pretty standard in any kind of contract.

If you are contracted to provide x services, and you then say you will no longer provide a certain percentage of them, you cannot expect to be paid for work which you are no longer carrying out. Subvention per vehicle in 2012 was actually slightly higher than it was in the previous years.

Of course some vehicles are now worked harder which will increase costs, but the services that were the worst performing ones in the city, and they would have been using above average levels of subvention because of this, so this will offset a lot of the increased costs of vehicles being worked harder, since it's likely that the bottom 10% performing routes, used far more than 10% of the subsidy, whilst the top 10% performing routes probably used far less than 10% of the subsidy.

Tourman

hytrogen wrote: »

Well if privatising 10% of DB routes will cut costs what's the problem? Bringing competition into an already mafia'd market, means more businesses opening & business opportunities which should bring more employment right?

Didn't in London

smellmepower

Will just mean worse working conditions for drivers as the big company's who tender for the routes try to bleed every last cent out of the services to the detriment of passengers and staff.The recent BBC documentary about TFL bus drivers highlighted this.

Loads of unnecessary clerical staff applying pressure to already over stressed frontline workers and not enough drivers or buses.

devnull

With all due respect transport in London is by far better than in Dublin. That is not me saying it is, that is from my own personal experience of using it.

For a start the fare system is more customer friendly, runs around the clock with 24 hour routes, there is better on bus environment for passengers, and the drivers always use the middle doors. This means dwell time at stops is practically a few seconds, compared to Dublin Bus when a bus can be stopped at a stop for around five minutes.

SandyfordGuy

dublin has better transport than london yeah right' why don't you actually use the system rather then believe what you read in the daily mail'

The customer comes first under transport for london unlike dublin bus where the workers do

SandyfordGuy

Bus drivers saying that disabled people should get over their sense of tentitlements' I think that is the most offensive post on this thread'

stop the poor poor me stuff