New Forest Sold?

Arsenium

Hello,

There have been rumours about the sale of New Forest recently. I was wondering if anyone knew for definite? I've played there a few times and I have to say I love the course. I would be sad to see it closing up or being allowed to run down. Even though it was in NAMA the course was always still in great nick and I often imagined how fabulous it would have been had the collapse not happened.

Then again I would probably have never got to play it if the collapse had not happened !!

If its sold I wonder what the plans are by the new owners.

Rikand

there's a lot of great farmland there!




I dont know if this is true or not, but a couple of years ago when there was talk of new forest being sold, it was by a group of local farmers going to buy it to turn it into farmland. Not sure if that was ever followed through on though.

I have a few friends who are members there so I'll ring and see if they heard anything

charlieIRL

it was sold alright, a few weeks ago and will remain open as a golf course.

Arsenium

charlieIRL wrote: »

it was sold alright, a few weeks ago and will remain open as a golf course.

I wonder how they plan to move it forward. The running costs of a place like New Forest must be huge. The massive house, the apartments (I presume all unoccupied), the course, clubhouse, restaurant etc. They'll need to attract a lot of members and a lot of green fees to turn it around.

Would they make it into a members owned club or run it privately?

Green fees are generally only around the 20 mark in the place. So it's hard to see how that is going to contribute towards making it profitable.

charlieIRL

i've never got it for €20!!

Needs a good few euro spend on the apartments etc alright but the course is in fantastic condition. We stayed for a few beers and food after our last round there (food was excellent and very reasonable BTW).

mag

charlieIRL wrote: »

i've never got it for €20!!

http://www.brsgolf.com/newforest/opens_home.php

Arsenium

mag wrote: »

http://www.brsgolf.com/newforest/opens_home.php

And the last few times I played it we had picked up those offers for a 4 ball for 36 euros.

I know a few guys who joined it this year. They are all pretty impressed with the set up and especially in regards to the pro shop and offers / lessons etc.

I dont know what number of members they have. A few years ago it would have suited me to join as I was working down that direction. But a few years ago you'd need to be Donald Trump to join.

charlieIRL

mag wrote: »

http://www.brsgolf.com/newforest/opens_home.php

ahh right, never played an open day there - was always a casual round with friends.

Russman

charlieIRL wrote: »

ahh right, never played an open day there - was always a casual round with friends.

Generally if you ring them they'll give a good price. I've had a few casual games where we called the day before or the morning of the game and they were very friendly - basically along the lines of "ahh, its quiet enough, I'll do it for €12 per head" or something like that.

Superb course BTW, really, really good layout.

slave1

Tough track, hard to keep the round together and when it's windy much tougher, that feckin par 3 has been anything from a 9 to a driver and has the maddest undulations, if the pin is the far side of the green then good luck!

Arsenium

slave1 wrote: »

Tough track, hard to keep the round together and when it's windy much tougher, that feckin par 3 has been anything from a 9 to a driver and has the maddest undulations, if the pin is the far side of the green then good luck!

Yep. I played it one day with the pin at the front, hit an 8 iron and hit the back part of the green. Rollercoaster putt from the back to the front.

Another day, with the wind against, I hit a driver as you say, just through the narrow part at the front of the green. Crazy hole. Comes at just the right time (or wrong time) to possibly wreck your card.

slave1

They have an ad in this week's paper, full membership from now to Jan 2015 for €550+levies

sydneybound

slave1 wrote: »

They have an ad in this week's paper, full membership from now to Jan 2015 for €550+levies

Great but crazy price. How they even break even charging that I don't know. If I lived in the area would be delighted to pay that sort of cash.

percy212

I predict wind turbines.

slave1

Yeah, great course but long and tough, given my distance from it, it would just not be feasible given daylight hours in April/May/Sept/Oct to get anything decent in after work plus longer traveling time etc, shame

slave1

percy212 wrote: »

I predict wind turbines.

Doubt it given EU 10X guidelines, a large commercial turbine would need 1.5km clearance of any dwelling minimum

mike12

sydneybound wrote: »

Great but crazy price. How they even break even charging that I don't know. If I lived in the area would be delighted to pay that sort of cash.

I wonder how much it costs to run a club like this at break even.
If they got 400 members at that price would €220,000 go close to covering costs. Then you make your profit on Green fees.
It's a good course and hope it survives.

Mike

Unglika Norse

mike12 wrote: »

I wonder how much it costs to run a club like this at break even.
If they got 400 members at that price would €220,000 go close to covering costs. Then you make your profit on Green fees.
It's a good course and hope it survives.

Mike

Double that and you would be about right.

slave1

Agreed, would need to be generating strong positive cash flow before profit though, cash is still King!

sydneybound

mike12 wrote: »

I wonder how much it costs to run a club like this at break even.
If they got 400 members at that price would €220,000 go close to covering costs. Then you make your profit on Green fees.
It's a good course and hope it survives.

Mike

I'd say about 500,000 at a guess when your talking about green keeping staff, regular machine costs and different chemicals for greens (sprays) which can be extremely expensive. It would be a great achievement if New Forest got about 200 full members.

Unglika Norse

sydneybound wrote: »

I'd say about 500,000 at a guess when your talking about green keeping staff, regular machine costs and different chemicals for greens (sprays) which can be extremely expensive. It would be a great achievement if New Forest got about 200 full members.

If New forest only attracts 200 full members they will be in a difficult place. They would in my opinion then need to turn 15000 rounds of golf per year @ e20 to break even on running cost. 50 green fees a day Is this feasible or doable, hard to know.

It is again my opinion the membership fee is set at a rate at which they hope to pull from established clubs, Already it would appear that Des Morgan has jumped ship at Mullingar to become Director of Golf at New Forest. They are attracting existing members from other clubs but I believe at a very slow rate, they are not generating new business or people new to golf.

This would lead me to think that if the migration of existing club members is in large quantities, a situation that New Forest are hoping for, existing clubs will then be in the difficult position of trying to maintain standards with reduced income. There is now no way that these existing clubs will now be in a position to reduce the fees currently charged, or that will compound their position.

This is similar to the position of Knockanally & Kilcock who have according to my information lost large numbers to Moyvalley just down the road, which has put them in jeopardy.

Bit of a quandary

slave1

Good post, I play it a few times a year, not a hope of it getting 50 green fees any day I've been there, again good synopsis there.

GreeBo

sydneybound wrote: »

I'd say about 500,000 at a guess when your talking about green keeping staff, regular machine costs and different chemicals for greens (sprays) which can be extremely expensive. It would be a great achievement if New Forest got about 200 full members.

Wages would eat 500k before you have even started to look at the usual operating expenses.
If you think of it, thats only 5 people at 50k...take away a head greenkeeper, sec manager, thats probbly 350k left for all of your staff and you will have 2-3 more ground staff (60k if you have kids at 20k/year) (290k) bar staff, pro, catering, secretary? Add pension, health, etc for staff + insurance, bank fees and you havent bought a drop of fuel or a bucket of sand yet.
Hard to see it as viable to any high standard imo.

Unglika Norse

GreeBo wrote: »

Wages would eat 500k before you have even started to look at the usual operating expenses.
If you think of it, thats only 5 people at 50k...take away a head greenkeeper, sec manager, thats probbly 350k left for all of your staff and you will have 2-3 more ground staff (60k if you have kids at 20k/year) (290k) bar staff, pro, catering, secretary? Add pension, health, etc for staff + insurance, bank fees and you havent bought a drop of fuel or a bucket of sand yet.
Hard to see it as viable to any high standard imo.

Good points, I was simply looking at the course at a basic level for this type of high maintenance proposition,

FixdePitchmark

GreeBo wrote: »

Wages would eat 500k before you have even started to look at the usual operating expenses.
If you think of it, thats only 5 people at 50k...take away a head greenkeeper, sec manager, thats probbly 350k left for all of your staff and you will have 2-3 more ground staff (60k if you have kids at 20k/year) (290k) bar staff, pro, catering, secretary? Add pension, health, etc for staff + insurance, bank fees and you havent bought a drop of fuel or a bucket of sand yet.
Hard to see it as viable to any high standard imo.

Id say the wages in golf courses will drop from above. Average industrial wage is 43 K.

Sad to say that, but couldnt see 5 people at 50 K

charlieIRL

Whoever bought it must have done the maths and see it as a viable investment. Hope it stays open as its a course I love playing....actually anyone fancy a round there in the next few weeks?

GreeBo

charlieIRL wrote: »

Whoever bought it must have done the maths and see it as a viable investment. Hope it stays open as its a course I love playing....actually anyone fancy a round there in the next few weeks?

hopefully, but you have to sacrifice something to run a course for that money, otherwise everyone would.
I'd hope it's not the course itself, but that's the most expensive but. we put down 900 tonnes of sand this week on the course after pole forking, will the new owner consider that worth it, even though it damages short term green fees for the end of the season?

charlieIRL

GreeBo wrote: »

hopefully, but you have to sacrifice something to run a course for that money, otherwise everyone would.
I'd hope it's not the course itself, but that's the most expensive but. we put down 900 tonnes of sand this week on the course after pole forking, will the new owner consider that worth it, even though it damages short term green fees for the end of the season?

Played there twice just before it was sold and it was in good condition with whatever budget they had. Shame to see the apartments so dilapidated so hopefully something will be done with them eventually.

Felloffmebike

I have a 4 ball voucher valid to the end of the year. Or at least it was. Wonder if they will honour it now...

blackwhite

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Id say the wages in golf courses will drop from above. Average industrial wage is 43 K.

Sad to say that, but couldnt see 5 people at 50 K

They won't be getting paid €50k each, but when you factor in the additional costs of employing someone (i.e. pension, employers' PRSI) then an employee getting €43k would easily end up costing €50k to the employer.

borntobike

The Maths do not add up at all. A good golf course costs up to €700k per annum to run, ie €2k per day if you consider Wages, insurance, rates, machinery, sand, chemicals, light, heat, admin etc.
The green fee market is dead in the water due to open singles.
More people will start to join clubs of convenience like Blessington Lakes for 200 euro and then play opens.

Dr_Colossus

borntobike wrote: »

The green fee market is dead in the water due to open singles.
More people will start to join clubs of convenience like Blessington Lakes for 200 euro and then play opens.

A fair point but it's very hard to get any sort of open singles from Oct to April on a weekend, that's generally reserved for member competitions and societies/green fees so it's one serious disadvantage of distance membership if looking to play year round.

Wichita Lineman

Although I readily acknowledge a combination of members and visitors are required in any club it is only fair that most weekends are more geared towards members as they are the ones ultimately keeping the club open not the once or twice a year visitors.

sydneybound

Andy Dunne11 wrote: »

Although I readily acknowledge a combination of members and visitors are required in any club it is only fair that most weekends are more geared towards members as they are the ones ultimately keeping the club open not the once or twice a year visitors.

I've been a member in Ireland then the UK and now back in Ireland. I've always joined a club rather than doing the whole distance thing and getting green fees here and there. I don't mind paying more to be a member of a club than the green fee route as I like my evening few holes which are a pain when your not a member. I will always shy away from a club that offers regular opens on weekends. However that said I'm not against a regular midweek open on a Tuesday or a couple of odd ones in the month on weekdays if not on a set day.

I want to play AM on either Saturday or Sunday of every weekend, which I see as my entitlement as a member of the club. So I would be royally pissed off, given its already hard enough to get an AM time in my club, if they started to offer weekend open events. To be honest they aren't going to start, everyone would kick off but if they did and I couldn't play the course when it's most convenient to me I'd take my €1,500 sub elsewhere and I wouldn't be alone in that.

golferAC

Played here today was in great nick greens were very good poor distance markers on the course which is where i struggled never played it either and should have taken 3 wood of the 12th hit the bunker on 4 pitched out but found the hazard excellent course but i could have done with a bushnell out their today!
i will be back again and again!

Jacksquat

There's a driving range being built and the apartments will finally be ready soon too.

billy3sheets

Played there on Monday for first time. Thought it was really nice course with plenty of variation on the holes. Greens were in superb nick if a little slow.
7th par 3 is a superb hole visually.

Jacksquat

billy3sheets wrote: »

Played there on Monday for first time. Thought it was really nice course with plenty of variation on the holes. Greens were in superb nick if a little slow.
7th par 3 is a superb hole visually.

I guess you mean the 9th walled garden hole. It was a nice idea to put it in there. It would look better with a few more flower beds across the middle I think.

billy3sheets

billy3sheets wrote: »

Played there on Monday for first time. Thought it was really nice course with plenty of variation on the holes. Greens were in superb nick if a little slow.
7th par 3 is a superb hole visually.

Brain-fart! I played Forrest Little on Monday and was referring to it's condition and 7th hole!

Eaglebridie 32

billy3sheets wrote: »

Played there on Monday for first time. Thought it was really nice course with plenty of variation on the holes. Greens were in superb nick if a little slow.
7th par 3 is a superb hole visually.

Played there today, 1st time also. Yes, top course alright, couldn't really fault any part of it, greens now up to speed. Decent value €35 inc breakfast so will certainly be back.

Arsenium

Really looking forward to getting back down there to play over the next few weeks. I love the place and the course. I havent been there since it was sold but from what you guys are saying it's still as good as it always was. It's great that even when in Nama'fied the course still was always in super condition.

I know a few guys who joined there recently and if it had been geographically possible I'd have joined myself. Some people complain about parts of the course but I've never really had any complaint. In the main people seem to complain about the 12th hole. Its a tough hole mainly because of the risk with the tee shot. Give up distance for safety but that then results in a very tough second. Maybe it's the hill to the next tee box that prejudices people :-)

I never played it when the 17th had the water on the fairway. That must have been a hell of a tee shot then.

And I think the 18th is a great finish.

Yep, I guess you could say I am fond of the course