Lower Back Pain ??

clinton_slowey

Hi

I am not looking for medical advise but like to hear peoples opinions and experiences on back Pain ?

I have had lower back pain for 4 years now and have tried tons of physios and doctors to no avail. I used to be really fit and loved sports and exercise..

I have had Multiple MRI's and the only thing that shows up is some lower L5/S1 disc degeneration which I am told is quiet Normal

Doctors say they cant operate as they don't see any problems but I feel pain as soon as I bend forward so there must be something wrong ?

I am thinking of trying spinal decompression - Has anyone tried this and is it expensive ?

Thanks

TheBellJar

I have this and there are varying degrees of it. It could be that at this point it is causing issues with a nerve, or you could have a posterior tear, or it could be something else entirely. Your best bet is to go back to see a physio who can assess you, order another MRI if needed, and best advise you on pain management.


Good luck

clinton_slowey

TheBellJar wrote: »

I have this and there are varying degrees of it. It could be that at this point it is causing issues with a nerve, or you could have a posterior tear, or it could be something else entirely. Your best bet is to go back to see a physio who can assess you, order another MRI if needed, and best advise you on pain management.


Good luck

Problem is I need to fins somebody good who knows what they are talking about and is interested in actually helping and not just looking for money which seems to be the case with the majority of docs and Physios, Chiro's etc I seen !!

JJayoo

Is it a constant pain? and does it ease off as you move ie It's very bad in the mornings but eases once you are up and moving?

TheBellJar

clinton_slowey wrote: »

Problem is I need to fins somebody good who knows what they are talking about and is interested in actually helping and not just looking for money which seems to be the case with the majority of docs and Physios, Chiro's etc I seen !!

Aidan Woods, Pearse St Physio Clinic.
Highly recommended.

clinton_slowey

JJayoo wrote: »

Is it a constant pain? and does it ease off as you move ie It's very bad in the mornings but eases once you are up and moving?

Yes its constant dull pain which gets worse as the day goes on - Sitting down seems to make it worse . lying flat on my back seems to give me some relieve..

clinton_slowey

TheBellJar wrote: »

Aidan Woods, Pearse St Physio Clinic.
Highly recommended.

Thanks !! - Will check him out !!

JJayoo

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/may/07/antibiotics-cure-back-pain-patients

"Up to 40% of patients with chronic back pain could be cured with a course of antibiotics rather than surgery, in a medical breakthrough that one spinal surgeon says is worthy of a Nobel prize."

""This is vast. We are talking about probably half of all spinal surgery for back pain being replaced by taking antibiotics," said Peter Hamlyn, a consultant neurological and spinal surgeon at University College London hospital."

This was all over the papers a few weeks ago.

TheBellJar

JJayoo wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/may/07/antibiotics-cure-back-pain-patients

"Up to 40% of patients with chronic back pain could be cured with a course of antibiotics rather than surgery, in a medical breakthrough that one spinal surgeon says is worthy of a Nobel prize."

""This is vast. We are talking about probably half of all spinal surgery for back pain being replaced by taking antibiotics," said Peter Hamlyn, a consultant neurological and spinal surgeon at University College London hospital."

This was all over the papers a few weeks ago.

Antibiotics aren't going to fix a degenerated disc.

JJayoo

TheBellJar wrote: »

Antibiotics aren't going to fix a degenerated disc.

Pain from a degenerated disk comes from two sources instability at the motion segment and inflammation. So with inflammation in mind.

"The Danish team describe their work in two papers published in the European Spine Journal. In the first report, they explain how bacterial infections inside slipped discs can cause painful inflammation and tiny fractures in the surrounding vertebrae."

"To heal the damage, the body grows small blood vessels into the disc. Rather than helping, though, they ferry bacteria inside, where they grow and cause serious inflammation and damage to neighbouring vertebrae that shows up on an MRI scan."

"In a randomised trial, the drugs reduced pain in 80% of patients who had suffered for more than six months and had signs of damaged vertebra under MRI scans"

Now I'm no spineologist but if I had pain for 4 years like the OP and if Doctors could see no problem I would like to look into all options.

On one radio interview I heard about this new treatment the surgeon said that if your back pain eases as you begin to move throughout the day then your back pain wouldn't be suitable for this treatment. The bacteria pretty much gain access through damaged discs and cause crazy inflammation.

F35

Interesting stuff!

TheBellJar

But doctors have told him what the problem is. I have the same issue and the same symptoms so I'm going by own experience.

Will check out that article properly later though !

JJayoo

TheBellJar wrote: »

But doctors have told him what the problem is. I have the same issue and the same symptoms so I'm going by own experience.

Will check out that article properly later though !

The thing about this new research is that it was just announced about 2 months ago so testing for it probably hasn't been put into practice yet. I have no experience with this at all I just thought it was pretty cool.

David K. Woodard

As per my personal experience I told everyone not to sit continuously in the same place and if someone has a job of sitting in one place for a longer time then maintain straight posture while sitting it will help to reduce back pain.One can find all information about angle of posture on Google.

The Guvnor

The thing is the back is still within reason a mystery.

I knew a really good rugby player - in school every year of the 6 he was on either jct or sct!

Now as he was so good he had the best of advice and assistance. He had a weak back - now he had more MRI's than we have had hot dinners and tests up the yin-yang the conclusion was always the same - there is nothing wrong with your back.

There was something wrong and by saying there was nothing wrong was them saying we cannot find anything wrong which is as you know not the same thing.

My view on the back is - it is a very large and complex area and pain is all down to angles.

For example at the minute I have tweaked mine - how?

A tight left glute! I know normally a compliment. LoL

Sitting for prolonged periods at the desk without movement - every 30mins one should be up and moving - bit of a stretch etc.

Bit of stretching and it should release and relax over the next week!

Now by angles I mean - try and be as straight to what you are doing don't twist, lean forward, back etc.

Even simple things like brushing teeth could give one a dart - twist down to get some water etc.

Obviously get a good physio and try and work on strengthening SAFELY muscles in the back with advice from said Physio.

For anyone with back pain any solution is a good solution - if antibiotics do the trick- game on.

I have been to a good physio in Dundalk but a bit of trip.

Keep us updated on your progress.

clinton_slowey

TheBellJar wrote: »

But doctors have told him what the problem is. I have the same issue and the same symptoms so I'm going by own experience.

Will check out that article properly later though !

Hi

To Clarify

The Doctors didn't tell me what the issue is - That's the problem - They don't know whats causing my pain - they say disc degeneration is normal as you hit your 40's and the level I have wouldn't be causing the pain I have ?

So I am open to any suggestions

Doug Cartel

clinton_slowey wrote: »

Doctors say they cant operate as they don't see any problems but I feel pain as soon as I bend forward so there must be something wrong ?

When you bend forward, do you bend your back at all? If so where does it bend?

Dali Farmer

One of the major issues in back pain is smoking. This is because the inter vertebral disks have a tenuous blood supply, which is exacerbated by smoking which causes vasospasm of these vessels. This means that the disks do not get an adequate blood supply, and therefor nutrients/ oxygen which in turn leads to degeneration and exacerbation of back pain.

I obviously don't know if you smoke, but this is one of the issues with back pain which is often not addressed

TheBellJar

clinton_slowey wrote: »

Hi

To Clarify

The Doctors didn't tell me what the issue is - That's the problem - They don't know whats causing my pain - they say disc degeneration is normal as you hit your 40's and the level I have wouldn't be causing the pain I have ?

So I am open to any suggestions

Strange, because I have the same issue and the same symptoms from it! Although, I'm 27 but that doesn't really make any difference to the point.
You really need to go to a physio.

clinton_slowey

TheBellJar wrote: »

Strange, because I have the same issue and the same symptoms from it! Although, I'm 27 but that doesn't really make any difference to the point.
You really need to go to a physio.

Lol =- I think I have been to ten Physios as this stage as well as all the other Quacks !!

And I don't smoke

I used to be very fit and did alot of sports !!

At this stage I need to see a Proper back specialist so have made an about to make appointment for a neuro surgeon on a recommendation from somebody who had similar issues who got them resolved with minor surgery

If your mattress on your bed is any way soft get rid and pay for a decent firm mattress.

I had back problems a few years ago and this helped instantly.

Also, if you're in a job that you lift anything, make sure you are doing it correctly. Get manual handling training if necessary.

Posture when sitting also important..

clinton_slowey

rarnes1 wrote: »

If your mattress on your bed is any way soft get rid and pay for a decent firm mattress.

I had back problems a few years ago and this helped instantly.

Also, if you're in a job that you lift anything, make sure you are doing it correctly. Get manual handling training if necessary.

Posture when sitting also important..

I troied all that too - Got a new matress from the back shop in town and a special desk in work to stand when working on a computer

I think sitting puts pressure on the discs and that causes it to get worse

I do some Yoga which kind helps but underlying issues is still there

Doug Cartel

Seriously though, do you move your back when you bend forward?

clinton_slowey

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Seriously though, do you move your back when you bend forward?

what do you mean move my back when I bend forward ?- Putting socks or shoes on causes the pain to increase so bending forward or sitting causes pain

SM746

clinton_slowey wrote: »

Problem is I need to fins somebody good who knows what they are talking about and is interested in actually helping and not just looking for money which seems to be the case with the majority of docs and Physios, Chiro's etc I seen !!

I got a kickboxing injury about 11 years ago in my Lower left back. Flared up again after a marathon in March 2012. Major problems / pain, sciatica etc for about 6 months until a boxer friend recommended Johnson McEvoy who works with the Irish boxing team. He does be in Dublin once a week as far as I rwmember but is Limerick based. Well worth it as im back to normal again out running and kickboxing with no hitches

Doug Cartel

clinton_slowey wrote: »

what do you mean move my back when I bend forward ?- Putting socks or shoes on causes the pain to increase so bending forward or sitting causes pain

Do you bend your spine? Especially at the lumbar portion?

It's not a good idea, and if you do it too much it's going to get sore even for small movements.

clinton_slowey

SM746 wrote: »

I got a kickboxing injury about 11 years ago in my Lower left back. Flared up again after a marathon in March 2012. Major problems / pain, sciatica etc for about 6 months until a boxer friend recommended Johnson McEvoy who works with the Irish boxing team. He does be in Dublin once a week as far as I rwmember but is Limerick based. Well worth it as im back to normal again out running and kickboxing with no hitches

Thanks for that - What did he do to get you sorted ?

Bull McCabe1920

clinton_slowey wrote: »

Lol =- I think I have been to ten Physios as this stage as well as all the other Quacks !!

And I don't smoke

I used to be very fit and did alot of sports !!

At this stage I need to see a Proper back specialist so have made an about to make appointment for a neuro surgeon on a recommendation from somebody who had similar issues who got them resolved with minor surgery

If you don't mind me asking, what sports did you do?
Did your work entail heavy lifting?

Bull McCabe1920

clinton_slowey wrote: »

what do you mean move my back when I bend forward ?- Putting socks or shoes on causes the pain to increase so bending forward or sitting causes pain

There is a good chance you have prolapsed discs or wear and tear of the discs.

clinton_slowey

Bull McCabe1920 wrote: »

There is a good chance you have prolapsed discs or wear and tear of the discs.

The MRI only shows degenerated Dics and they say thats normal but I think i definalty have some nerve issue going on with lower back as I have sore hips both sides and feet are very sore every morning I wake up

Bull McCabe1920

clinton_slowey wrote: »

The MRI only shows degenerated Dics and they say thats normal but I think i definalty have some nerve issue going on with lower back as I have sore hips both sides and feet are very sore every morning I wake up

I have an injury to my back since mid 90s. Mid and lower back injury which also caused prolapsed discs. This is when the gel between the discs squeeze out from between the vertebrae and discs touch causing pain. It could also cause numbness in the feet or pins and needles.

MRI scans don't show everything. Only in December an x-ray showed an injury to the top of my spine which now causes my left hand, small and ring finger to stay completely numb.

chatjunkie

Bull McCabe1920 wrote: »

I have an injury to my back since mid 90s. Mid and lower back injury which also caused prolapsed discs. This is when the gel between the discs squeeze out from between the vertebrae and discs touch causing pain. It could also cause numbness in the feet or pins and needles.

MRI scans don't show everything. Only in December an x-ray showed an injury to the top of my spine which now causes my left hand,


small and ring finger to stay completely numb.[/



Would a discogram help? I have bulging discs at both sides of l 4/l 5 and l5/s1. They both have tears too and are degenerative but still difficult to diagnose what exactly is causing the pain. Am going for a discogram next to give a definitive answer and then hopefully something can be done. A discogram is meant to give a very clear answer as to what the problem is. It's meant to be quite painful though!!

Brian?

I'm sorry OP but this thread does fall under seeking medical advice. I have to lock it up now.