The Pat Kenny Show

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kneemos wrote: »

The Casey thing sounded like a hatchet job,what I heard of it.


Anyway,who wants to hear more of this guy?

I'd say not many given how he disappeared since the presidential election. He made overtures at FF after that and Timmy Dooley shut him down immediately, Peadar Toibin has a new party going, SF are always open to a vote getter and yet no one has publicly tried to get him out there to see what the reaction might be.

The piece sounded very much like a Newstalk piece where Peter Casey was being interviewed rather than what the name "The Peter Casey Reports" suggested it would be.

kneemos

Tell me how wrote: »

I'd say not given how he disappeared since the presidential election. He made overtures at FF after that and Timmy Dooley shout him down immediately, PEadar Toibin has a new party going, SF are always open to a vote getter and yet no one has publicly tried to get him out there to see what the reaction might be.

The piece sounded very much like a Newstalk piece where Peter Casey was being interviewed rather than what the name "The Peter Casey Reports" suggested it would be.

The cynical bit of me wonders if he's paying for the publicity.


Thought he would have been on on a Saturday morning or something,not the PK Show.

Since Casey has declared himself for election, would there not be BAI rules in place about platforming him in this way?

Not trying to shout down his freedom of expression or anything like that, but I can't imagine his fellow-candidates are very impressed about a candidate being handed this kind of audience.

Or - maybe they are. By all accounts it was a load of shíte.

kneemos

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Since Casey has declared himself for election, would there not be BAI rules in place about platforming him in this way?

Not trying to shout down his freedom of expression or anything like that, but I can't imagine his fellow-candidates are very impressed about a candidate being handed this kind of audience.

Or - maybe they are. By all accounts it was a load of shíte.

Those rules only apply once an election has been called.

Tell me how

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Since Casey has declared himself for election, would there not be BAI rules in place about platforming him in this way?

Not trying to shout down his freedom of expression or anything like that, but I can't imagine his fellow-candidates are very impressed about a candidate being handed this kind of audience.

Or - maybe they are. By all accounts it was a load of shíte.

Think the BAI would only start paying attention if it was within a GE campaign.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Think the BAI would only start paying attention if it was within a GE campaign.

I'm gonna have a look once I get home, out of curiosity.

I'm fairly sure if Pat Kenny revealed himself as a surprise Sinn Féin candidate(!!) in Dún Laoghaire Ráthdown for 2021, there'd be some argument against it under the rules of the BAI

kneemos

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I'm gonna have a look once I get home, out of curiosity.

I'm fairly sure if Pat Kenny revealed himself as a surprise Sinn Féin candidate(!!) in Dún Laoghaire Ráthdown for 2021, there'd be some argument against it under the rules of the BAI

If they were elected maybe, otherwise they're just ordinary citizens.

buckfasterer

While I admire Pat and his crusade against the costing of the new childrens hospital, what is he actually going to do about it? It's the same every day but at the end of it, what's the point? If he really feels so strongly about it, splash the cash and put an injunction against the build.

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buckfasterer wrote: »

While I admire Pat and his crusade against the costing of the new childrens hospital, what is he actually going to do about it? It's the same every day but at the end of it, what's the point? If he really feels so strongly about it, splash the cash and put an injunction against the build.

At least we have someone willing to try to expose poor governmental planning and management.

I don't think he personally should have to apply for an injunction. But, say he did, he'd have to step down from the show for at least a period until the case is resolved. It would ultimately fail on the grounds that it was poor management but not illegal. His credit as an unbiased current affairs presenter would be shot.

Whenever I hear someone say I'm sick of hearing about Trump's collusion/Brexit/Childrens Hospital, I think that those who were at fault in each case are the ones who want most for the conversation to stop, therefore, we need people to keep it in the public domain.

Will it make a difference? I think so, even though this fiasco will still have happened. but, which is better, fiascos happening and we never hearing about them which will embolden others to behave in the same way, or fiasco's happening and being exposed leading to at the very least a public awareness leading potential fiasco planners to feel like they are being watched.

daithi7

'...potential fiasco planners... '

Love it.

kneemos

There's still time to do it right though.
However they'll persist with a hospital that's hard to get to,no parking and don't even know if they'll get planning for a maternity hospital.

Ol' Donie

Pat's book club.

It almost feels like they're giving me the heads up on a list of books to watch out for, in case I acidentally started reading one of them.

Roger_007

The only thing that seems to matter in education and jobs these days is the encouragement of girls to do 'whatever they want to do'.
Does the education and careers of boys not matter any more?

Tell me how

Roger_007 wrote: »

The only thing that seems to matter in education and jobs these days is the encouragement of girls to do 'whatever they want to do'.
Does the education and careers of boys not matter any more?

They do matter.

But groups of successful women in particular industries are promoting initiatives for females to advance. Largely in areas which are still dominated by males such as the STEM industries it seems.

To hear advocacy for male choices and careers, there needs to be groups doing the advocating. And much the same as women setting up groups to further their cause, it will probably take men setting up groups to further the cause of men.


(In some cases I actually think that some of the advocacy groups are enforcing the stereotype as much as removing it by telling people no one expects them to do something before then saying that they can. Maybe if you didn't say the first part, you wouldn't need to say the second.)

splinter65

Tell me how wrote: »

They do matter.

But groups of successful women in particular industries are promoting initiatives for females to advance. Largely in areas which are still dominated by males such as the STEM industries it seems.

To hear advocacy for male choices and careers, there needs to be groups doing the advocating. And much the same as women setting up groups to further their cause, it will probably take men setting up groups to further the cause of men.


(In some cases I actually think that some of the advocacy groups are enforcing the stereotype as much as removing it by telling people no one expects them to do something before then saying that they can. Maybe if you didn't say the first part, you wouldn't need to say the second.)

This is a very interesting read about Sweden, the equality in the workplace icon, more than 40 years later.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/business-39900449

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splinter65 wrote: »

This is a very interesting read about Sweden, the equality in the workplace icon, more than 40 years later.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/business-39900449

Reading that, what do you think is going to happen? That they will abandon their drive to promote equality or try to continue the journey they have been on?

They have had some success.

On the plus side, more than 80% of mothers work and Sweden leads the industrialised world in terms of public sector gender equality, according to the OECD; but Allbright's research shows the private sector - and the rapidly growing startup scene - is struggling to keep up

Lundeteg a successful business woman is specifically advocating for more to promote towards equality.

That is my point, if anyone wants to see improvements in a particular direction, they should realise that that means that someone has to roll up their sleeves and try to bring it about. In terms of advocacy, it seems that many of these groups have a female focus. Does that mean that it is unfair, or that someone needs to advocate more on behalf of men?

splinter65

Tell me how wrote: »

Reading that, what do you think is going to happen? That they will abandon their drive to promote equality or try to continue the journey they have been on?

They have had some success.



Lundeteg a successful business woman is specifically advocating for more to promote towards equality.

That is my point, if anyone wants to see improvements in a particular direction, they should realise that that means that someone has to roll up their sleeves and try to bring it about. In terms of advocacy, it seems that many of these groups have a female focus. Does that mean that it is unfair, or that someone needs to advocate more on behalf of men?

I don’t think that they will abandon anything. I find it strange that they thought that removing all the barriers from a woman’s ambition to be successful in the world of work would change female nature, a large part of which is to care for and nature her children, and change male nature, a large part of which is to provide for his children.

Tell me how

splinter65 wrote: »

I don’t think that they will abandon anything. I find it strange that they thought that removing all the barriers from a woman’s ambition to be successful in the world of work would change female nature, a large part of which is to care for and nature her children, and change male nature, a large part of which is to provide for his children.

I think they would suggest that these are not necessarily natural tendencies but more cultural ones which have become understood to be driven by nature.

I suspect that they probably never expected things to change overnight but that this is just part of a process which will probably ultimately take several generations.

splinter65

Tell me how wrote: »

I think they would suggest that these are not necessarily natural tendencies but more cultural ones which have become understood to be driven by nature.

I suspect that they probably never expected things to change overnight but that this is just part of a process which will probably ultimately take several generations.

How do you explain the other mammals in the world and their nature, that’s not “cultural” surely?

Grolschevik

splinter65 wrote: »

How do you explain the other mammals in the world and their nature, that’s not “cultural” surely?

Like same-sex couple penguins, and male tigers who aren't involved in raising their offspring, and male chimps with harems? Just off the top of my head, like...

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splinter65 wrote: »

How do you explain the other mammals in the world and their nature, that’s not “cultural” surely?

That's a very interesting question. Maybe the reality is that humans are the only mammals which put such focus in to occupying our time beyond simply survival.

Also, given the reality of food production and delivery which exists within the human race differently to most (if not all mammals) there is less reliance on the natural pipeline of females providing it.

We do many things differently as a species because of how the human race has evolved.

serfboard

Tell me how wrote: »

I think they would suggest that these are not necessarily natural tendencies but more cultural ones which have become understood to be driven by nature.

splinter65 wrote: »

How do you explain the other mammals in the world and their nature, that’s not “cultural” surely?

It always amuses me how people try to belittle the effects of biology, evolution and "hard-wiring".

We sleep, drink, eat and procreate because of biology.

Only women can give birth and can physically nourish children because of biology. Therefore their "natural tendency" to nurture children is obviously because of biology.

But does that mean that men can't care for children, or that women can't work outside the home?

Of course not. But it does explain the "natural tendency" for women to want to care for their children.

Should STEM careers be open to women, and should nursing and teaching careers be open to men?

Of course they should. Should they be encouraged? Of course, if they are interested.

Are they being discouraged for cultural reasons?

That might have been the case at one time, but I don't think it is the case now in Ireland. I remember hearing of a girls school in Galway that didn't teach honours maths, for example. And abroad, we all know of the Taliban who don't want women to have any education at all for "cultural" reasons.

However, I haven't seen any evidence that shows that children now in Europe are being encouraged/discouraged from any profession culturally.

Better (any) career guidance in schools might help.

splinter65

Grolschevik wrote: »

Like same-sex couple penguins, and male tigers who aren't involved in raising their offspring, and male chimps with harems? Just off the top of my head, like...

I’m not suggesting that these incidents don’t occur, they do and they’re so rare they make the national news, but in the vast majority of the mammal world the female minds the babies while the male hunts it's prey, or do you not agree?

Grolschevik

splinter65 wrote: »

I’m not suggesting that these incidents don’t occur, they do and they’re so rare they make the national news, but in the vast majority of the mammal world the female minds the babies while the male hunts it's prey, or do you not agree?

I'm just not sure that there is a standard 'natural' that is generalisable, no matter what the species. Tell me How's point about the changing nature of human's productive ability and our adaptiveness ties in to an idea that we shouldn't necessarily judge the standard of what's supposedly 'natural' for humans by what we might observe as being a predominant characteristic in some other species.

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serfboard wrote: »

It always amuses me how people try to belittle the effects of biology, evolution and "hard-wiring".

The whole point of evolution is that "hard wiring" is not necessarily unchanging is it not?

It certainly isn't going to change overnight if it is true evolution but I would probably be on the side that common roles today have evolved more because of cultural influence than natural. Simply in the sense that most jobs which exist now did not do so 100 years ago and many of them are not related to a natural inclination to be more nurturing or caring which some might say exists in females.

I'm not necessarily saying that that is a good or a bad thing. I am perfectly fine with the idea that anyone can do anything. I think we maybe see it more being the case that people are advocating for more opportunity for women because it is women who are being proactive in doing the advocating.

meeeeh

splinter65 wrote: »

I’m not suggesting that these incidents don’t occur, they do and they’re so rare they make the national news, but in the vast majority of the mammal world the female minds the babies while the male hunts it's prey, or do you not agree?

So what are your hinting skills like. And btw women tended to be gatherers so what does that mean?

Anyway there are significant biological factors that are especially relevant in Sweden (and other Scandinavian countries). Vast majority of women there breastfeed and they do it for longer so it is not surprising they will take maternity leave. I don't think that women are any more qualified or better equipped to make the formula though. Also the body needs to recover from labour but after there the person who can bring home more money is better equipped to be hunter or gatherer.

splinter65

meeeeh wrote: »

So what are your hinting skills like. And btw women tended to be gatherers so what does that mean?

Anyway there are significant biological factors that are especially relevant in Sweden (and other Scandinavian countries). Vast majority of women there breastfeed and they do it for longer so it is not surprising they will take maternity leave. I don't think that women are any more qualified or better equipped to make the formula though. Also the body needs to recover from labour but after there the person who can bring home more money is better equipped to be hunter or gatherer.

My hunting skills are 0. Why do you ask?

meeeeh

splinter65 wrote: »

My hunting skills are 0. Why do you ask?

That you fail as provider in the way nature intended. So it might time we realise what people did 10s or even 100s of thousand years ago might not be the best indicator.

splinter65

meeeeh wrote: »

That you fail as provider in the way nature intended. So it might time we realise what people did 10s or even 100s of thousand years ago might not be the best indicator.

Why would I be the provider?

splinter65

meeeeh wrote: »

That you fail as provider in the way nature intended. So it might time we realise what people did 10s or even 100s of thousand years ago might not be the best indicator.

It’s ok meeeh. You got it wrong. But you don’t believe in biology either.