The Pat Kenny Show

MrMusician18

Uncharted wrote: »

Nonsense.
Pat Kenny takes a hold of the matters of the day in his own inimitable style.
His approach is certainly more pointed and mercenary since he set up camp in Newstalk towers. Pat seems more free to express opinion at Newstalk.
This imo is only a good thing.

It just so happens that Brexit and the new children's hospital are two of the most important topics of the day.
So it stands to reason that Pat will constantly discuss said issues.

Long live Pat Kenny.

There are certain opinions that cannot be expressed at Newstalk.

The children's hospital is a horse that Kenny has decided to ride, pushing his own opinion. I don't think he has an agenda though beyond thinking he knows better. Which is a bit arrogant of him since he's not an expert in construction.

Say Pat's idea was taken seriously by Government, and the hospital contact was cancelled and moved to Blanch. You'd have the cost of the sunk funds in the design of now two abandoned designs, the sunk cost of the construction carried out, the compensation for the builder amounting to the profit they could have reasonably expected of between 10% to 15% of the cost of the hospital. All in, the government would have spent over half a billion with no hospital to show for itself.

Then you would have a minimum two to three year design period, planning and a two to three year build. And the cost would be little different, about 20% less on a green field with no basement and it could easily be 2027 before it's complete.

When you take all this into account, if the James site is abandoned, it's likely the Children's hospital project would be shelved in it's entirety and upgrades to existing facilities would happen instead, even though those are inadequate and would remain inadequate.

Is the James site perfect? No, not by any means. Expansion will be difficult and access for those that choose to as access the hospital by car will face city congestion at certain times. It is however determined by experts to be the best place clinically and academically for the hospital to be, which in my opinion trumps access and expansion concerns. And it is the place where building has started and therefore the place it is now the easiest and cheapest place to deliver the badly needed hospital.

I wish Pat could give a balanced view on this. He is usually quite good but it's surprisingly blinkered on the NCH.

Tell me how

MrMusician18 wrote: »

There are certain opinions that cannot be expressed at Newstalk.

The children's hospital is a horse that Kenny has decided to ride, pushing his own opinion. I don't think he has an agenda though beyond thinking he knows better. Which is a bit arrogant of him since he's not an expert in construction.

Say Pat's idea was taken seriously by Government, and the hospital contact was cancelled and moved to Blanch. You'd have the cost of the sunk funds in the design of now two abandoned designs, the sunk cost of the construction carried out, the compensation for the builder amounting to the profit they could have reasonably expected of between 10% to 15% of the cost of the hospital. All in, the government would have spent over half a billion with no hospital to show for itself.

Then you would have a minimum two to three year design period, planning and a two to three year build. And the cost would be little different, about 20% less on a green field with no basement and it could easily be 2027 before it's complete.

When you take all this into account, if the James site is abandoned, it's likely the Children's hospital project would be shelved in it's entirety and upgrades are existing facilities would happen instead, even though those are inadequate and would remain inadequate.

Is the James site perfect? No, not by any means. Expansion will be difficult and access for those that choose to as access the hospital by car will face city congestion at certain times. It is however determined by experts to be the best place clinically and academically for the hospital to be, which in my opinion trumps access and expansion concerns. And it is the place where building had started and therefore the place it is now the easiest and cheapest place to deliver the badly needed hospital.

I wish Pat could give a balanced view on this. He is usually quite good but it's surprisingly blinkered on the NCH.

Yeah, having Simon Harris on to talk about it really was backing up Pat's subjective opinion on this.

MrMusician18

Tell me how wrote: »

Yeah, having Simon Harris on to talk about it really was backing up Pat's subjective opinion on this.

I have no issue with him challenging the minister, or indeed anyone. That's his job. What I do take issue with is a soft approach to someone he has on that is pushing the same opinion as himself.

He had some guy on that had something to do with the Galway clinic iirc and was letting him away with spouting nonsense about being able have the hospital through design within 9 months and built within a year. Planning, procurement and construction do not work like that in Ireland, things take much longer, and Pat should've called that out, like he would with Harris or any other politician.



Just as an aside, the proposed hospital was always going to cost this much, the state isn't being ripped off. It's like the state ordering a car and thinking it's getting a Volkswagen but actually ordering a Bentley. If the government has known an accurate cost of the hospital, it's likely a smaller, scaled back version of the current design would've been built instead.

Uncharted

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Just as an aside, the proposed hospital was always going to cost this much, the state isn't being ripped off.

Most expensive hospital ever built.

That is all.

Tell me how

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I have no issue with him challenging the minister, or indeed anyone. That's his job. What I do take issue with is a soft approach to someone he has on that is pushing the same opinion as himself.

He had some guy on that had something to do with the Galway clinic iirc and was letting him away with spouting nonsense about being able have the hospital through design within 9 months and built within a year. Planning, procurement and construction do not work like that in Ireland, things take much longer, and Pat should've called that out, like he would with Harris or any other politician.



Just as an aside, the proposed hospital was always going to cost this much, the state isn't being ripped off. It's like the state ordering a car and thinking it's getting a Volkswagen but actually ordering a Bentley. If the government has known an accurate cost of the hospital, it's likely a smaller, scaled back version of the current design would've been built instead.

Irish Times Article

In Finland, authorities there are planning a hospital of equal size. However, the budget for the Nova children’s hospital is €500 million, local officials have told The Irish Times – and this includes IT and equipment.

It will have 412 inpatient, intensive care and neo-natal beds, slightly fewer than St James’s. Building costs are lower because it is located on a greenfield site away from large urban areas, in contrast to the Dublin inner-city plan.

Meanwhile, a new children’s hospital will open in Helsinki later this year. Costing just €160 million, it will have rooms for 150 patients. Half of the money has come from national and local government, the rest from institutions and donations.

The recently built Alder Hey Children’s Hospital in Liverpool was designed by the same architects involved in St James’s. At 270 beds, it is smaller than the Irish children’s hospital but the cost is €280 million.

If you look at the Alder Hey example, It is say, 60% the size of James and yet about 15% of the cost.

Callan57

Uncharted wrote: »

Most expensive hospital ever built.

That is all.

Remember it's nowhere near built yet ... we have absolutely NO IDEA what this hospital will actually cost. Once again we have handed out a blank cheque which will be submitted in due course for the taxpayer to honour.

Anyone who thinks this can be done without very, very significant negative impact on the rest of the health services is living in cloud cuckoo land. :rolleyes:

Roger_007

TM sounds like she is auditioning for the lead part in the remake of the The Godfather!

Tell me how

Roger_007 wrote: »

TM sounds like she is auditioning for the lead part in the remake of the The Godfather!

She really has been plagued by (or has gifted us) incidents which are tailor made for today's society to be made viral and to undermine any perception of authority which she has.

Curtsying to the Duchess of Cambridge
Dancing in Africa
Talking about being strong and stable at the Tory conference as the letters from the party slogan fell off the wall
Not able to exit the car after it pulled up at the EU parliament
Sounding like Darth Vader in a critical HoC speech

Roger_007

Tell me how wrote: »

She really has been plagued by (or has gifted us) incidents which are tailor made for today's society to be made viral and to undermine any perception of authority which she has.

Curtsying to the Duchess of Cambridge
Dancing in Africa
Talking about being strong and stable at the Tory conference as the letters from the party slogan fell off the wall
Not able to exit the car after it pulled up at the EU parliament
Sounding like Darth Vader in a critical HoC speech

It's a pity Spitting Image isn't on TV these days. They wouldn't even have to write a script!

Tell me how

Roger_007 wrote: »

It's a pity Spitting Image isn't on TV these days. They wouldn't even have to write a script!

Armando Iannucci of "The Thick of it" said there was no point doing a show on Brexit as the reality is just too bizarre.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

She really has been plagued by (or has gifted us) incidents which are tailor made for today's society to be made viral and to undermine any perception of authority which she has.

Curtsying to the Duchess of Cambridge
Dancing in Africa
Talking about being strong and stable at the Tory conference as the letters from the party slogan fell off the wall
Not able to exit the car after it pulled up at the EU parliament
Sounding like Darth Vader in a critical HoC speech

This really was the most incredible of the above incidents. At the very moment she said the word "strength" the F fell off which resulted in an unfinished sentence which jokers could complete.

plodder

I tuned into the croaky voice speech last night when she was referring to parliament in the third person "Does it want A or B"? I honestly thought I was listening to the Andy Serkis' brexit parody of her, it was so weird. I don't know how she is able to keep putting herself through all this..

BTW did anyone else hear the interview between Pat and a woman who had written a book on child psychology (Monday maybe)? It all felt very awkward. Maybe the line wasn't great. At one point she used the word "snap" and he thought she said "slap" which horrified her, but he went on about slapping children then ...

mattser

plodder wrote: »

I tuned into the croaky voice speech last night when she was referring to parliament in the third person "Does it want A or B"? I honestly thought I was listening to the Andy Serkis' brexit parody of her, it was so weird. I don't know how she is able to keep putting herself through all this..

BTW did anyone else hear the interview between Pat and a woman who had written a book on child psychology (Monday maybe)? It all felt very awkward. Maybe the line wasn't great. At one point she used the word "snap" and he thought she said "slap" which horrified her, but he went on about slapping children then ...

Regular occurrence across the radio nowadays. With all the 21st century communications technology, the breakdowns are as regular as they were in the sixties.

Hardly a day goes by on News at One when it happens.

As for the time delay on the TV, between Donnybrook and Kildare St., I thought that belonged to transatlantic link ups in the said same sixties.

mzungu

mattser wrote: »

Regular occurrence across the radio nowadays. With all the 21st century communications technology, the breakdowns are as regular as they were in the sixties.

Hardly a day goes by on News at One when it happens.

As for the time delay on the TV, between Donnybrook and Kildare St., I thought that belonged to transatlantic link ups in the said same sixties.

Sometimes I can hear the guest perfectly. They try re-establish the line anyways. Anybody else noticed this?

hotmail.com

Pat bemoaning the possibility of a 4 day week..

With the amount of holidays he gets, it probably averages out as a 4 day week for him.

Does he think we don't know this?

meeeeh

I don't know what is in Pat's contract but some other presenters (mostly Yates) said they are paid for the days they present. More or less they are all contractors and hardly relevant for this initative.

We have trouble recruiting at the moment because there is lack of suitable candidates and frankly if someone decided we should do 32 hour week we can close the door. Union morons think you can find 20 % more to pay people with a flick of a finger. Especially when you can't finish the projects because of lower productivity.

Technocentral

meeeeh wrote: »

I don't know what is in Pat's contract but some other presenters (mostly Yates) said they are paid for the days they present. More or less they are all contractors and hardly relevant for this initative.

We have trouble recruiting at the moment because there is lack of suitable candidates and frankly if someone decided we should do 32 hour week we can close the door. Union morons think you can find 20 % more to pay people with a flick of a finger. Especially when you can't finish the projects because of lower productivity.

If you'd bothered to look into the research, productivity went up in the companies that adopted it, as long as 100% of the work is done for the same wage why would you care? Plus employees would be much happier. Old fashioned thinking imo.

meeeeh

Technocentral wrote: »

If you'd bothered to look into the research, productivity went up in the companies that adopted it, as long as 100% of the work is done for the same wage why would you care? Plus employees would be much happier. Old fashioned thinking imo.

Yeah that doesn't really work in manufacturing. Do you think productivity will as good if for example builders work 32 instead of 40 hours.

Since you know the research, how many of those companies with improved productivity were in manufacturing, building etc?

Technocentral

meeeeh wrote: »

Technocentral wrote: »

If you'd bothered to look into the research, productivity went up in the companies that adopted it, as long as 100% of the work is done for the same wage why would you care? Plus employees would be much happier. Old fashioned thinking imo.

Yeah that doesn't really work in manufacturing. Do you think productivity will as good if for example builders work 32 instead of 40 hours.

Since you know the research, how many of those companies with improved productivity were in manufacturing, building etc?

There used to be 6 day weeks, people need to embrace the future, working from home etc, as I said if 100% of work can be done in 4 days why not go for it, unless you are a slave driver or sweat shop no one is working every minute of the day, productivity may have to rise in some companies, so be it.

serfboard

meeeeh wrote: »

Do you think productivity will as good if for example builders work 32 instead of 40 hours.

Surely the point is that workers are more productive during the hours that they actually work.

A builder actually building for 32 hours, instead of spending his time sitting around scratching his arse and drinking tea for half of his 40 hours, will be more productive.

meeeeh

serfboard wrote: »

Surely the point is that workers are more productive during the hours that they actually work.

A builder actually building for 32 hours, instead of spending his time sitting around scratching his arse and drinking tea for half of his 40 hours, will be more productive.

I don't know about builders but I know accidents happen when increased productivity is forced on people. Breaks during work are as important as breaks of work.

meeeeh

Technocentral wrote: »

There used to be 6 day weeks, people need to embrace the future, working from home etc, as I said if 100% of work can be done in 4 days why not go for it, unless you are a slave driver or sweat shop no one is working every minute of the day, productivity may have to rise in some companies, so be it.

I will ingnore slave driver nonsense and just ask you again how many companies with increased productivity were in manufacturing and especially in one off manufacturing?

Technocentral

I don't know, maybe someone will try it. Who says 5 days a week will be the best pattern until the end of time? Btw by you I meant one, not accusing you.

mzungu

mzungu wrote: »

Sometimes I can hear the guest perfectly. They try re-establish the line anyways. Anybody else noticed this?

“We’ll try and get you in a better line”
....maybe it’s to bide time for the presenter to gather his/her lost notes!

meeeeh

I found interview with the three environmental protesters very good. Pat didn't patronize them and rightfully challenged them on their views on water or carbon charges. If they want to be taken seriously as protesters they will have to go a bit further than 'we are protesting against environmental damage big businesses causes'.

mzungu

meeeeh wrote: »

I found interview with the three environmental protesters very good. Pat didn't patronize them and rightfully challenged them on their views on water or carbon charges. If they want to be taken seriously as protesters they will have to go a bit further than 'we are protesting against environmental damage big businesses causes'.

Aye, and to be fair to them they were able to hold their own for the most part. With a few more years practice they will become more refined but overall it was a good listen.

mattser

meeeeh wrote: »

I found interview with the three environmental protesters very good. Pat didn't patronize them and rightfully challenged them on their views on water or carbon charges. If they want to be taken seriously as protesters they will have to go a bit further than 'we are protesting against environmental damage big businesses causes'.

Pity he hadn't the goolies to forcibly challenge AAA and PBP when the water issue was at it's height.
Easy getting rough with a few kids.

meeeeh

mattser wrote: »

Pity he hadn't the goolies to forcibly challenge AAA and PBP when the water issue was at it's height.
Easy getting rough with a few kids.

Firstly AAA and PBP can't be disproportionately represented on the radio. They are fringe parties no matter how much they protest and should be treated as such.

Secondly there were other parties against water charges and government did a pigs ear of rolling them out. Pat challenging AAA or PBP would make no difference.

Thirdly those three kids were a lot more coherent than Ruth Coppinger ever was.

Tell me how

mattser wrote: »

Pity he hadn't the goolies to forcibly challenge AAA and PBP when the water issue was at it's height.
Easy getting rough with a few kids.

He regularly has Paul Murphy on and doesn't hold back against him in the slightest.

He had a promo piece for his show a couple of years ago which was him tearing in to Murphy over what Pat considered a cheap shot Murphy had said about him.

mzungu

mattser wrote: »

Pity he hadn't the goolies to forcibly challenge AAA and PBP when the water issue was at it's height.
Easy getting rough with a few kids.

I recall Pat challenging them on water charges when it was at its height.