House sold for below our offer

dubrov

I have to agree.
People are overrating cash heavily on this thread.

You'd have to be desperate to close a sale quickly to walk away from €50k.
Clearly there was no desperation as the seller initially seemed to be holding out for 5k more.

The only way you'll ever find out the truth is to contact the seller directly.
I wouldn't believe anything the estate agent says at this point.

Why do people go to Estate Agents in the first place ?

I think they had a lot to do with inflated house prices in the boom.

In Germany I don't think they bother with estate agents, certainly my gf's parents sold their house on their own no problem, you advertise the house and if someone wants they will buy it, I don't get giving estate agents money for basically nothing ?

I think things would be a whole lot simpler without estate agents.

Carlowgirl, where was the house for sale ?

pwurple

You never know what's going on behind the scenes. We offered the asking price for a house last october (after several other bids of course) and were the highest bidder. I phoned two days later to see if my bid had been accepted, and was told that another higher bid (5k) had been accepted. Without informing us that there was another bid. Very weird, but I guessed it was a cash buyer where we were part-mortgage.

8 months later, we have bought and moved into a different house, and that house sale still hasn't gone through. There were engineer report issues, title issues, delays etc etc. A friend knows the sellers, and asked what the selling price is now, and they have gone to 20K below what we last offered, 25K below the original agreed price.

If I had not known what was going on, I'd be very suspicious when I looked on the property price register.

pwurple

Deleted User wrote: »

Why do people go to Estate Agents in the first place ?

I think they had a lot to do with inflated house prices in the boom.

In Germany I don't think they bother with estate agents, certainly my gf's parents sold their house on their own no problem, you advertise the house and if someone wants they will buy it, I don't get giving estate agents money for basically nothing ?

I think things would be a whole lot simpler without estate agents.

We originally tried to sell our house without an estate agent and people were quite wary and unsure that things above board. I assured them that we wouldn't be taking any deposit, it would all be going through solicitors.

It just isn't the done thing I suppose.

pippip

OP, on the price register, by any chance is there a cross or asterix beside the price? if there is that indicates there was more to the deal on top of the money shown.

Sounds odd to me, people may want a quick sale but to turn away from a potential €48k is almost inhuman to me. If they were in financial trouble and needed a quick sale they definitely wouldn't have walked away from your deal.

AlanG

If you think you were screwed over you should report it to the Revenue Commissioners – they sold the house for below the market value (close to your offer) so unless they paid stamp duty on the market value they have broken the law.

More than likely they either:
Put it on the market to gauge the market value before selling it to a relative or,
The Estate Agent sold it to a mate and didn’t pass on your offer – most likely.

pwurple

pwurple wrote: »

We originally tried to sell our house without an estate agent and people were quite wary and unsure that things above board. I assured them that we wouldn't be taking any deposit, it would all be going through solicitors.

It just isn't the done thing I suppose.

If I was selling there is no way in hell I'd deal with estate agents, I'd have nothing to do with them.

I don't get why people would be wary, if you want to sell a house and you both have solicitors I don't see the problem.

Estate agents overvalued property like mad in this country. SO I would love to see the lot of them out of business I wouldn't trust any of them as far as I could throw them.

How do you know they are working in your interests ? or even telling the potential buyer all the facts, what you will or won't take etc ?

No 3rd party involved is always too much hassle.

Ray Palmer

Register an official complaint /query.

The benefit of cash is being overrated here from what I can see but as we don't know the percentage of the property price this discount applies to maybe it isn't that much.

youwhoglue

OP, you should be delighted, if your offer was taken you were overpaying hugely!

ted1 wrote: »

Wrong word, that's when a higher price comes in

This is called gazundering.

mickdw

There is certainly more to this than just the buyer having all cash.

Id say there was a 25k under the table deal done and a 20k saving for the buyer due to the benefits of 25k unrecorded cash in hand to the seller.
Alternatively, as said already, OPs offer might never have gone to seller and house was sold to mate of agent.

Uriel.

Lol. Gotta love the conspiracy theorists. Something is odd about the whole affair but structural damage, under the table cash deals, undervalue declarations to revenue...

Op all you can do is forget it at this stage. You didn't get the house, obviously it's a disappointment but I'm sure you'll find another

yankinlk

Uriel. wrote: »

Lol. Gotta love the conspiracy theorists.

Exactly. The truth is most likely pretty simple.

When people say its a buyers market - they actually mean a CASH buyers market. I been selling my moms house for 3 years. Every Season we hear offers, crazy ones, but still offers... they have YET to result in a mortgage app being approved. and yes many of the offers are 50k less than the asking - and yes i would snap the hand off them.

in my scenario if i was about to sell to a 50k less cash buyer, and A. Nother contacted with asking (but was in a chain) i would not wait for the chain. As it is - this season is closing and im gonna rent it out again.

tatli_lokma

Could it be that the seller *had* to sell, possibly under instruction from their own mortgage lender? A friend of the family recently was forced to sell their home after several restructures. They were offered €20k below asking price. They didn't want to sell at that price as they would still owe that €20k to the bank. The house was only on the market for a few weeks at this stage and had had a lot of interest. They were confident, as was the estate agent, that they could get at least another €10k if not the full asking price. But the bank insisted that they had to take the serious offer that was on the table. Possibly the sellers in this case might be dealing with a similar situation?

Carlowgirl

Deleted User wrote: »

Why do people go to Estate Agents in the first place ?

I think they had a lot to do with inflated house prices in the boom.

In Germany I don't think they bother with estate agents, certainly my gf's parents sold their house on their own no problem, you advertise the house and if someone wants they will buy it, I don't get giving estate agents money for basically nothing ?

I think things would be a whole lot simpler without estate agents.

Carlowgirl, where was the house for sale ?

Rural area.. over half hour from city... 6 miles from nearest town... house prices are expensive in the area in comparison with other areas.... it was a good bargain with the extra 50k... offer

Carlowgirl

tatli_lokma wrote: »

Could it be that the seller *had* to sell, possibly under instruction from their own mortgage lender? A friend of the family recently was forced to sell their home after several restructures. They were offered €20k below asking price. They didn't want to sell at that price as they would still owe that €20k to the bank. The house was only on the market for a few weeks at this stage and had had a lot of interest. They were confident, as was the estate agent, that they could get at least another €10k if not the full asking price. But the bank insisted that they had to take the serious offer that was on the table. Possibly the sellers in this case might be dealing with a similar situation?

No they were not in trouble with the bank both the previous owners are in good jobs .... if they were in trouble I think they would of accepted our initial offer....

Carlowgirl

Thanks for the all the replies.. I suppose its possible that the rumour was true.. the house had issues.. or structural problems. it is ten years old .. many houses thrown up in the boom... are only showing their cracks now it seems...

Carlowgirl

Carlowgirl wrote: »

Thanks for the all the replies.. I suppose its possible that the rumour was true.. the house had issues.. or structural problems. it is ten years old .. many houses thrown up in the boom... are only showing their cracks now it seems...

This gets me to thinking... how much below asking price do you offer for a cash sale?

The_Conductor

Carlowgirl wrote: »

No they were not in trouble with the bank both the previous owners are in good jobs .... if they were in trouble I think they would of accepted our initial offer....

I know plenty of families with both parents working who are in trouble with their mortgages. Just because they both have good jobs, doesn't mean squat.

tatli_lokma

The_Conductor wrote: »

I know plenty of families with both parents working who are in trouble with their mortgages. Just because they both have good jobs, doesn't mean squat.

Exactly what I was thinking! Plenty of people out there with 'good' jobs by other peoples standards, but with a shed load of financial commitments and finance agreements they can't meet.

Carlowgirl

The_Conductor wrote: »

Where is all of this about structural damage coming from?
Was there obvious structural damage associated with the property?
If so- how did the OP miss it on their own survey (I'm presuming they did one)?
According to the OP 'the word on the street was it wouldn't pass the bank survey'- what does this mean? No survey was done?
It all sounds like innuendo about structural damage- short of seeing the new owners start major rehabilitation works and talking to them, in due course, no way to prove or disprove this theory.

Also- the 48k reduction in asking price- this could be a massive reduction- or a minor reduction. It could be less than 10% or it could be greater than 25%. We don't know.

Cash- very obviously- is king- and estate agents will happily tell you that they'll get you a further 10-15% discount if you're not in chain, and not subject to mortgage approval. This is standard. There always was a discount offered for this type of purchaser- its just higher now than ever before. A seller isn't going to care whether your offer is 50% cash, 50% mortgage- its cash- or its not cash.

Interesting times.

it was between just less than 25 % drop... (will have to calculate again)
We didn't have a survey carried out.. we were applying again for the extra amount... when they refused first offer... the rumour was from the neighbours.. regarding structural damage.. it didn't appear to have any from viewings or from looking at the house from the outside..

Carlowgirl

Carlowgirl wrote: »

it was between just less than 25 % drop... (will have to calculate again)
We didn't have a survey carried out.. we were applying again for the extra amount... when they refused first offer... the rumour was from the neighbours.. regarding structural damage.. it didn't appear to have any from viewings or from looking at the house from the outside..

Figure is correct

valleyoftheunos

The most likely explanation going from all the information Carlowgirl has given is that the rumors are true and there was a structural problem (which might only show up on an engineer's report). It would then be unlikely that a bank would lend on the property. That would mean that a cash buyer would be the only option for the seller and at a significant discount to cover the cost of putting the defect right which would account for the difference between Carlowgirl's offer and the accepted amount.

Carlowgirl

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

The most likely explanation going from all the information Carlowgirl has given is that the rumors are true and there was a structural problem (which might only show up on an engineer's report). It would then be unlikely that a bank would lend on the property. That would mean that a cash buyer would be the only option for the seller and at a significant discount to cover the cost of putting the defect right which would account for the difference between Carlowgirl's offer and the accepted amount.

Just remembered also the estate saying that a couple offered our initial offer but they refused.. so obviously they were not desperate to sell..

witchgirl26

I know this might sound controversial but could it be that they weren't under pressure to sell & didn't need the extra amount you were offering but really liked the other people who bought it? More than they liked you?

I know someone who got a house that way. Offer was a fair bit less than the others on the table (they didn't know about them when they offered) but the couple who were selling really liked them & thought they'd "look after the house well" so were willing to let it go for less as they weren't under financial pressure.

pippip

witchgirl26 wrote: »

I know this might sound controversial but could it be that they weren't under pressure to sell & didn't need the extra amount you were offering but really liked the other people who bought it? More than they liked you?

I know someone who got a house that way. Offer was a fair bit less than the others on the table (they didn't know about them when they offered) but the couple who were selling really liked them & thought they'd "look after the house well" so were willing to let it go for less as they weren't under financial pressure.

Maybe, if it was a a few hundred and you really liked your old neighbours.

In this case you'd want to be a right idiot for close to 50k.

witchgirl26

Fair enough maybe but there is no law saying that the seller must accept the highest offer. That's only if it was at auction which it wasn't. At the end of the day, whatever the reasons, the seller choose to accept an offer that wasn't the OP's. As harsh as it sounds, I really think the OP needs to move on from this house. They have only conjecture about the sellers circumstances and the structural issues. What is actually going to come of the constant wondering as to why? Sometimes things don't go your way, sometimes they do.

pippip

witchgirl26 wrote: »

Fair enough maybe but there is no law saying that the seller must accept the highest offer. That's only if it was at auction which it wasn't. At the end of the day, whatever the reasons, the seller choose to accept an offer that wasn't the OP's. As harsh as it sounds, I really think the OP needs to move on from this house. They have only conjecture about the sellers circumstances and the structural issues. What is actually going to come of the constant wondering as to why? Sometimes things don't go your way, sometimes they do.

Definitely true, if its ment to be.

I really feel the estate agent should have given an explanation. I know they probably don't have to but don't see why they wouldn't if asked.

The_Conductor

pippip wrote: »

Maybe, if it was a a few hundred and you really liked your old neighbours.

In this case you'd want to be a right idiot for close to 50k.

However- it was cash- and the other offers were subject to mortgage approvals etc. The OP had to go back to the bank for reapproval, albeit for a very small amount- this would be enough to scare the beejesus out of most sellers. 50k or not- the fact that it was cold hard cash into their hands- is a mighty powerful persuader........

Carlowgirl

witchgirl26 wrote: »

I know this might sound controversial but could it be that they weren't under pressure to sell & didn't need the extra amount you were offering but really liked the other people who bought it? More than they liked you?

I know someone who got a house that way. Offer was a fair bit less than the others on the table (they didn't know about them when they offered) but the couple who were selling really liked them & thought they'd "look after the house well" so were willing to let it go for less as they weren't under financial pressure.

We never met the couple only dealt with EA.

pippip

The_Conductor wrote: »

However- it was cash- and the other offers were subject to mortgage approvals etc. The OP had to go back to the bank for reapproval, albeit for a very small amount- this would be enough to scare the beejesus out of most sellers. 50k or not- the fact that it was cold hard cash into their hands- is a mighty powerful persuader........

I know cash can be a big decider but in some cases it can be irrelevant.

If the sellers were in negative equity and forced to sell I don't think their bank would be too happy to hear they sold for 50k below market value just because of cash. Although I can't see that being the case here. If your financial situation is bad 50k could almost be life changing.

If it was structural would the estate agent not have mentioned this when first taking viewers, why would they let someone see the house knowing they couldn't possibly get approval on it.