All-Ireland Senior Football Quarter-Final: Monaghan v Tyrone - 3/8/2013 5pm Croke Par

listermint

There's sadly too many posters on here happy to let some players and teams away with using the rules as a shield for what is blatantly going against the spirit of the game. It's awful football to watch and any manager who promotes that type of rubbish deserves the ire of the paying public just as much as the GAA authorities do for not stamping it out. Light touch regulation doesn't make it ethically okay and posters who are willing to side step the respect of their fellow sportsman to win in that manner. Brolly was correct, it's no win at all. Its just not.

macadam

WarZoneBrother wrote: »

Did you not hear what I said? I said to put the rules behind... So you decide would you give red or yellow?... After giving 2 yellows to Hughes what Kavanagh done was 10 times worse so clearly deserved a red...

@namloc - I love how you just said 4 yellow cards is not over the top basically... You could not back it up?... Why where those yellow's dished out... If Hughes did not have a yellow should he have been sent off? Why did he get his 1st yellow? It doesn't matter about a second yellow it is all about the first which is what everyone here seems to avoid...

I honestly believe the reason why Hughes was sent off was because the ref felt sorry for Tyrone down a man... When that box was swung at HT did the ref do anything? NO !!!... He waited and he knew he had to give a red card because the umpire told him what happened...

I answered you if you'd read my post, the ref didnt see what happed at half time I was watching and seen penrose strike even though the lines man was present, Cormac Reilly had a good game, Monaghan lost because at the end of the day you just werent good enough Dick Clerkin scored a great 2nd half point but the two wides he kicked probably cost ye the match.

listermint

Additionally you can't regulate for everything, players should abide by their own standards as should the management teams. If winning at all costs is the nature of the game in this 'amateur' sport. What's the point

WarZoneBrother

Mutant Mass wrote: »

Yes what Cavanagh did was wrong.

However, most people absolutely would do the same thing in the same situation. There is no point blaming the players here. If the rules need to be changed, then that's what has to happen, because a player will always push the rules to the boundaries and get away with what they can. Rightly so too. Sport, despite what we tell children, is not about the taking part, its about the winning. That's what drives athletes to train hard, a desire to win.

Also, no point in blaming the ref, he can only follow the rules, and the penalty is a yellow card.

I have the greatest sympathy for Monaghan, but Brolly directed his ire in the wrong direction. If he's got problems, its with the organisation and the rules, and not at a hard-working amateur athlete like Cavanagh.

I know most people would do it... But me personally would never do anything like that in any game... I honestly would not care if it was going to save the team I personally believe in fair play so would not attempt anything like that ...

Pappa Charlie

I think the real battle here is between RTE and TV3, the pundits on RTE this year seem to all want to be Eamon dunphy and I thinks that's what's spurring on brollys so called rage. It's all for TV and ratings but the shameful thing is they are willing to character assainate amature players to keep their handy jobs, Eamon o hara on kevin walsh is another example. You can be sure that RTE wanted us all talking about their coverage after the weekend was over!! TV 3 will probally try and better it today at the expense of some amature player! It's a race to the bottom

listermint

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

I think the real battle here is between RTE and TV3, the pundits on RTE this year seem to all want to be Eamon dunphy and I thinks that's what's spurring on brollys so called rage. It's all for TV and ratings but the shameful thing is they are willing to character assainate amature players to keep their handy jobs, Eamon o hara on kevin walsh is another example. You can be sure that RTE wanted us all talking about their coverage after the weekend was over!!

Id imagine your conspiracy theory is just that.

Pappa Charlie

listermint wrote: »

Id imagine your conspiracy theory is just that.

Is that you Des Cahill

WarZoneBrother

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

I think the real battle here is between RTE and TV3, the pundits on RTE this year seem to all want to be Eamon dunphy and I thinks that's what's spurring on brollys so called rage. It's all for TV and ratings but the shameful thing is they are willing to character assainate amature players to keep their handy jobs, Eamon o hara on kevin walsh is another example. You can be sure that RTE wanted us all talking about their coverage after the weekend was over!! TV 3 will probally try and better it today at the expense of some amature player! It's a race to the bottom

You can character assassinate anyone when they are not playing the game the way it "should be" played...

macadam

WarZoneBrother wrote: »

I know most people would do it... But me personally would never do anything like that in any game... I honestly would not care if it was going to save the team I personally believe in fair play so would not attempt anything like that ...

You wouldnt last long on an intercounty panel, if you didnt take one for the team/county, fair play yes and within the rules Cavanagh is not a dirty player he pulled an opponent down by the jersey, yellow card end off story.
Get over it you done brilliant this year so go on and improve next year will see you in Clones for the league match or they might play it in Inniskeen boost the economy for the the neighbours.

listermint

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

Is that you Des Cahill

Yes it's me, I like to interact with the looneys on a Sunday morning.

listermint

macadam wrote: »

You wouldnt last long on an intercounty panel, if you didnt take one for the team/county, fair play yes and within the rules Cavanagh is not a dirty player he pulled an opponent down by the jersey, yellow card end off story.
Get over it you done brilliant this year so go on and improve next year will see you in Clones for the league match or they might play it in Inniskeen boost the economy for the the neighbours.

Classic ridiculousness, as I said you can't regulate for everything. It's cute hoorism pushing the boundaries as much as you can in a hope that the GAA can't keep up.. Which they can't. Is this what's called progress ?

Where did the 'football' go?

Strongbow10

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

I think the real battle here is between RTE and TV3, the pundits on RTE this year seem to all want to be Eamon dunphy and I thinks that's what's spurring on brollys so called rage. It's all for TV and ratings but the shameful thing is they are willing to character assainate amature players to keep their handy jobs, Eamon o hara on kevin walsh is another example. You can be sure that RTE wanted us all talking about their coverage after the weekend was over!! TV 3 will probally try and better it today at the expense of some amature player! It's a race to the bottom

I can't agree with this, when the final whistle went yesterday listen to Ger Canning go into full "kiss Mickey Hartes arse" mode. Full of compliments for Tyrone and the coaching staff, then they head back to the studio and Brolly puts a spanner in the works. You could even see Lyster was agitated and was quick to state Brolly was wrong about Cavanagh.

Lyster is obviously working under a directive from above to launch a charm offensive towards Tyrone and Harte in particular, it does sting them that he won't speak to them after games.

Brolly threw more petrol on the fire yesterday with his over the top rant

WarZoneBrother

macadam wrote: »

You wouldnt last long on an intercounty panel, if you didnt take one for the team/county, fair play yes and within the rules Cavanagh is not a dirty player he pulled an opponent down by the jersey, yellow card end off story.
Get over it you done brilliant this year so go on and improve next year will see you in Clones for the league match or they might play it in Inniskeen boost the economy for the the neighbours.

What Cavanagh done is pretty much similar to that of what Thierry Henry done to Ireland a few years ago ... If the rules where not there but you had to give a red or yellow? What would you give?...

To the above comment... Over the top rant? Seriously? ... He is actually one of the only people that know what there talking about... At least he points out what happened and why it was wrong rather than the other way around...

Pappa Charlie

Strongbow10 wrote: »

I can't agree with this, when the final whistle went yesterday listen to Ger Canning go into full "kiss Mickey Hartes arse" mode. Full of compliments for Tyrone and the coaching staff, then they head back to the studio and Brolly puts a spanner in the works. You could even see Lyster was agitated and was quick to state Brolly was wrong about Cavanagh.

Lyster is obviously working under a directive from above to launch a charm offensive towards Tyrone and Harte in particular, it does sting them that he won't speak to them after games.

Brolly threw more petrol on the fire yesterday with his over the top rant

Brolly =. Dunphy
Lyster = bill
Canning = Hamilton
It's TV they have formula which work and that's what's drives it!

macadam

listermint wrote: »

Classic ridiculousness, as I said you can't regulate for everything. It's cute hoorism pushing the boundaries as much as you can in a hope that the GAA can't keep up.. Which they can't. Is this what's called progress ?

Where did the 'football' go?

I agree 100% thats just the way the game is going and the black card wont change it, I bet already teams will have strategies worked out how to abuse the new rules, we also need more interaction with umpires and linesmen.

Pappa Charlie

listermint wrote: »

Yes it's me, I like to interact with the looneys on a Sunday morning.

Me too!

macadam

What is the new "Stadium TV" crews for that were around the pitch yesterday.

listermint

macadam wrote: »

What is the new "Stadium TV" crews for that were around the pitch yesterday.

Crowd shots and off the ball interaction

Bridge93

From my point of view as a Dub at least this incident means for at least one round theres a county everyone hates more than us!

WarZoneBrother

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

Brolly =. Dunphy
Lyster = bill
Canning = Hamilton
It's TV they have formula which work and that's what's drives it!

The difference in my opinion is Brolly talks sense...

Dirty Dingus McGee

namloc1980 wrote: »

Pulling down an opponent is specifically classed as a yellow card offense in the rule book.

I know that it is a yellow card offence but its unacceptable that what Cavanagh did is just a yellow card offence.

What Cavanagh did is closer to a rugby tackle rather than simply pulling down an opponent and so an exception could be made for tackle like this.With the rule I pointed out you could argue he was endangering his opponent (which is obviously a very loose phrase) and punish him with a red card and still be within the rule book.The black card next year will not make a huge difference in my opinion only a red card and a heavy suspension would have stopped Cavanagh doing what he did yesterday.

Rightwing

Just looked at the Brolly rant. I can't really criticise Brolly. Give a monkey a rope and it won't end well.

Rte,,,,,taxpayers money,,,,and who they get,,,the likes of Brolly :rolleyes:

Choochtown

Not the referee's fault at all. His job is to apply the rules of the game not to try to dish out "moral justice". Under the rules Cavanagh rightly got a yellow card.

Cavanagh was for the 2nd week in succession the best player on the pitch and was justifiably awarded "man of the match".

An elite athlete will think differently from most mere sports fans. In the heat of the battle Cavanagh is not going to think about how he is perceived or whether a rugby tackle is morally the correct thing to do. The split-second decision he makes to bring down his opponent is based solely on his sheer bloody-mindedness to do everything in his power to win.

If the punishment was a red card would he have still done it? Yes

Would every other top footballer have done it? Yes

Those who are directing personal criticism towards him either

(a) don't understand sport at that level or
(b) have their own personal agenda. ( eg. Brolly/ disgruntled Monaghan fans)

One final point. Cavanagh is not a cheat. Athletes who use performance-enhancing drugs (pre-meditated) are cheats. It does a great dis-service to a fine athlete to label him as such.

WarZoneBrother

Choochtown wrote: »

Not the referee's fault at all. His job is to apply the rules of the game not to try to dish out "moral justice". Under the rules Cavanagh rightly got a yellow card.

Cavanagh was for the 2nd week in succession the best player on the pitch and was justifiably awarded "man of the match".


If the punishment was a red card would he have still done it? Yes

Would every other top footballer have done it? Yes

Those who are directing personal criticism towards him either

(a) don't understand sport at that level or
(b) have their own personal agenda. ( eg. Brolly/ disgruntled Monaghan fans)

One final point. Cavanagh is not a cheat. Athletes who use performance-enhancing drugs (pre-meditated) are cheats. It does a great dis-service to a fine athlete to label him as such.

First of all not to try to dish out "moral justice" .... What happened after the Tyrone lad was sent off??... He decided to send Monaghan lad off... I know by his reaction at HT he didn't know what to do about it all he only sent him off because the umpires told him so... Such a coincidence how 10mins later a Monaghan player gets sent off... Clearly he was giving "moral justice" to Tyrone... Even though Tyrones red card was a box to the face...

Ordinary man

If the tackle was fair then why do defenders bother to try and block shots at all. Just take the man out, job done

Drumpot

Choochtown wrote: »

Not the referee's fault at all. His job is to apply the rules of the game not to try to dish out "moral justice". Under the rules Cavanagh rightly got a yellow card.

Cavanagh was for the 2nd week in succession the best player on the pitch and was justifiably awarded "man of the match".

An elite athlete will think differently from most mere sports fans. In the heat of the battle Cavanagh is not going to think about how he is perceived or whether a rugby tackle is morally the correct thing to do. The split-second decision he makes to bring down his opponent is based solely on his sheer bloody-mindedness to do everything in his power to win.

If the punishment was a red card would he have still done it? Yes

Would every other top footballer have done it? Yes

Those who are directing personal criticism towards him either

(a) don't understand sport at that level or
(b) have their own personal agenda. ( eg. Brolly/ disgruntled Monaghan fans)

One final point. Cavanagh is not a cheat. Athletes who use performance-enhancing drugs (pre-meditated) are cheats. It does a great dis-service to a fine athlete to label him as such.

Cheating is defined as an immoral way of acting to achieve a goal. You are justifying Cavanagh's actions because he did what many footballers (not all) would do in the same circumstances. Its a foul and a booking because its an illegal act in the game. Doing an illegal act with complete intent and understanding of the consequences, if it will help your team and penalise another, is cheating.

He knew what he was doing and how it would effect his and the other team. It doesn't matter if it goes on in the game, its cheating and its wrong. You can continue to defend the indefensible, but its a simple case of cheating as a means to an end. The fact that its a part of the modern game is a different discussion.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Ordinary man wrote: »

If the tackle was fair then why do defenders bother to try and block shots at all. Just take the man out, job done

They would concede a free and get a yellow card.which would mean a sure point being scored and a high risk of getting sent off.It is only a sensible thing to do if it prevents a sure goal from being scored.

Feeble

<snip>

macadam

Ordinary man wrote: »

If the tackle was fair then why do defenders bother to try and block shots at all. Just take the man out, job done

The tackle wasnt fair, thats the reason he was cautioned as per the rules!!

Choochtown

WarZoneBrother wrote: »

First of all not to try to dish out "moral justice" .... What happened after the Tyrone lad was sent off??... He decided to send Monaghan lad off... I know by his reaction at HT he didn't know what to do about it all he only sent him off because the umpires told him so... Such a coincidence how 10mins later a Monaghan player gets sent off... Clearly he was giving "moral justice" to Tyrone... Even though Tyrones red card was a box to the face...

I think if you watch it again you'll see that the Monaghan player was sent off because he got a second yellow card for a high tackle around the neck which was the correct decision consistent with the rules of the game.

The referee correctly consulted with his umpires and sent off the Tyrone player for the punch (a straight red) again consistent with the rules.

What point are you trying to make?

WarZoneBrother

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

They would concede a free and get a yellow card.which would mean a sure point being scored and a high risk of getting sent off.It is only a sensible thing to do if it prevents a sure goal from being scored.

Sensible? sensible? I really don't understand how you think it is sensible to do something like that... As I have said before it is the equivalent to what happened when Ireland played France and Henry scored a goal by handling it...

Choochtown

Drumpot wrote: »

Cheating is defined as an immoral way of acting to achieve a goal. You are justifying Cavanagh's actions because he did what many footballers (not all) would do in the same circumstances. Its a foul and a booking because its an illegal act in the game. Doing an illegal act with complete intent and understanding of the consequences, if it will help your team and penalise another, is cheating.

He knew what he was doing and how it would effect his and the other team. It doesn't matter if it goes on in the game, its cheating and its wrong. You can continue to defend the indefensible, but its a simple case of cheating as a means to an end. The fact that its a part of the modern game is a different discussion.

You would therefore concede that (according to your definition above) some Monaghan players also cheated yesterday?

Sam Hain

Choochtown wrote: »

Not the referee's fault at all. His job is to apply the rules of the game not to try to dish out "moral justice". Under the rules Cavanagh rightly got a yellow card.

Cavanagh was for the 2nd week in succession the best player on the pitch and was justifiably awarded "man of the match".

An elite athlete will think differently from most mere sports fans. In the heat of the battle Cavanagh is not going to think about how he is perceived or whether a rugby tackle is morally the correct thing to do. The split-second decision he makes to bring down his opponent is based solely on his sheer bloody-mindedness to do everything in his power to win.

If the punishment was a red card would he have still done it? Yes

Would every other top footballer have done it? Yes

Those who are directing personal criticism towards him either

(a) don't understand sport at that level or
(b) have their own personal agenda. ( eg. Brolly/ disgruntled Monaghan fans)

One final point. Cavanagh is not a cheat. Athletes who use performance-enhancing drugs (pre-meditated) are cheats. It does a great dis-service to a fine athlete to label him as such.

By the sounds of it you know nothing about sport at that level, so don't let on that you do, you just come across as merely condescending.

Choochtown

Sam Hain wrote: »

By the sounds of it you know nothing about sport at that level, so don't let on that you do, you just come across as merely condescending.

What makes you think that?

Optimalprimerib

This last ditch fouling needs to be punished an awful lot more harshly.

Either a straight red if through on goal, or the ball can be moved forward for a penalty (but in the way tyrone were diving against meath may not be the best idea).

If a foul looks to be intentional to hold up the game, the ball should be brought forward. Not just for protests.

I completely agree with brolly something needs to be done about this.

Sam Hain

Choochtown wrote: »

What makes you think that?

The way you're going on, you're full of it.

Choochtown

Sam Hain wrote: »

The way you're going on, you're full of it.

Please be more specific. This is a forum for debate.

Let me guess: You are from Monaghan. You are upset because your county were narrowly defeated yesterday and you feel that they were hard done-by. Therefore to make yourself feel slightly better you will insult someone who disagrees with you on an internet forum and then be unable or unwilling to explain your insult.


Am I close?

Sam Hain

Choochtown wrote: »

Please be more specific. This is a forum for debate.

Let me guess: You are from Monaghan. You are upset because your county were narrowly defeated yesterday and you feel that they were hard done-by. Therefore to make yourself feel slightly better you will insult someone who disagrees with you on an internet forum and then be unable or unwilling to explain your insult.


Am I close?

You not only have delusions of grandeur but you are also patronizing.

Choochtown

Sam Hain wrote: »

You not only have delusions of grandeur but you are also patronizing.

Please explain or debate the matter. The insults are fairly tiresome.

Do you have insight or an opinion on the views expressed in my post?

Are you able to debate the point?

macadam

Lads pick the toys back up off the floor and stay on topic the last 8 or so posts have absolutely nothing to do with GAA or this thread.
The pitch was in some condition yesterday but a lot of players dont seem to be wearing the correct boots slipping and sliding all over the place.

Sam Hain

Choochtown wrote: »

Please explain or debate the matter. The insults are fairly tiresome.

Do you have insight or an opinion on the views expressed in my post?

Are you able to debate the point?

You're relentless in proving me right. And what insults are you talking about?
You're getting tiresome at this stage.

Sam Hain

macadam wrote: »

Lads pick the toys back up off the floor and stay on topic the last 8 or so posts have absolutely nothing to do with GAA or this thread.
The pitch was in some condition yesterday but a lot of players dont seem to be wearing the correct boots slipping and sliding all over the place.

Well it was raining, regardless of what boot you wear, you're gonna slip and slide.

macadam

Sam Hain wrote: »

Well it was raining, regardless of what boot you wear, you're gonna slip and slide.

I know I was sitting in it but players were slipping starting their runs, definitely with the surface being sand based mouldies are out and most of the guys that were slipping were wearing them, if youve ever being on the pitch you would see that the surface doesnt harden up like other pitches with it being sand based and regularly watered, maybe RUGBY boots would have suited!!!

Choochtown

It's a pity a debate forum about yesterday's game which had a lot of debatable points descends into a thread where 2 disgruntled Monaghan supporters can repeatedly throw insults and discuss their view of my personality rather than debate or discuss my original post.

I get it Sam. (I think it's best for me to ignore Feeble and let the mods do their job). For some reason you think I'm condescending. What I think would be more interesting for everyone who uses this forum would be your opinions on yesterday's match rather than your (incorrect) opinion of my character. It's a GAA forum. If you want a discussion on " Is Choochtown condescending?" try "After Hours"

Do you think a Monaghan player would have pulled down a Tyrone player in an advanced position?
Would you be pleased if that had happened and contributed to a victory for your boys?
Will the "black card" rule change make a difference?
What about Brolly's personal attack on Cavanagh? Was it justified?

macadam

The MOD's must be in CP as insulting remarks to other posters is uncalled for and should earn him at least a yellow card..

Sam Hain

Choochtown wrote: »

It's a pity a debate forum about yesterday's game which had a lot of debatable points descends into a thread where 2 disgruntled Monaghan supporters can repeatedly throw insults and discuss their view of my personality rather than debate or discuss my original post.

I get it Sam. (I think it's best for me to ignore Feeble and let the mods do their job). For some reason you think I'm condescending. What I think would be more interesting for everyone who uses this forum would be your opinions on yesterday's match rather than your (incorrect) opinion of my character. It's a GAA forum. If you want a discussion on " Is Choochtown condescending?" try "After Hours"

Do you think a Monaghan player would have pulled down a Tyrone player in an advanced position?
Would you be pleased if that had happened and contributed to a victory for your boys?
Will the "black card" rule change make a difference?
What about Brolly's personal attack on Cavanagh? Was it justified?

My biggest problem with yesterdays refereeing decisions was that the major ones cost Monaghan mostly. 2 players should have been sent off at half time, not one.And the yellow card Darren Hughes got for dispossessing Sean Cavanagh was scandalous, and changed his approach to playing Cavanagh as he was not in the game before that. And they scored from the subsequent free. It was the wrong call, and it made a Darren Hughes's job more difficult. these 2 decisions seem to be overshadowed by the foul on McManus.

Optimalprimerib

Jesus this is worse than the soccer forum

Hammer Archer

Feeble banned.

macadam

Sam Hain wrote: »

My biggest problem with yesterdays refereeing decisions was that the major ones cost Monaghan mostly. 2 players should have been sent off at half time, not one.And the yellow card Darren Hughes got for dispossessing Sean Cavanagh was scandalous, and changed his approach to playing Cavanagh as he was not in the game before that. And they scored from the subsequent free. It was the wrong call, and it made a Darren Hughes's job more difficult. these 2 decisions seem to be overshadowed by the foul on McManus.

Was this taken off another forum???
I think so!!!

macadam

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Feeble banned.

Straight "RED", seen that coming alright.