All-Ireland Senior Football Quarter-Final: Monaghan v Tyrone - 3/8/2013 5pm Croke Par

Sam Hain

macadam wrote: »

Was this taken off another forum???
I think so!!!

What are you on about? You should just keep nominating people to be banned. That suits you best. Can we now just please stay on subject.

Choochtown

Sam Hain wrote: »

My biggest problem with yesterdays refereeing decisions was that the major ones cost Monaghan mostly. 2 players should have been sent off at half time, not one.And the yellow card Darren Hughes got for dispossessing Sean Cavanagh was scandalous, and changed his approach to playing Cavanagh as he was not in the game before that. And they scored from the subsequent free. It was the wrong call, and it made a Darren Hughes's job more difficult. these 2 decisions seem to be overshadowed by the foul on McManus.

Agreed re. The 2 players at half time. I think that perhaps only 1 punch was clearly seen by the umpires although if the ref had seen (maybe not allowed to) the replay he would have had no choice but to send both of them off.
Don't agree with you regarding the Hughes decision. As a neutral I thought the ref had a fairly good game. Some frees were hard to call as both teams were engaging in shirt grabbing followed by a fall to gain a free. Monaghan scored their first point from a free by using this tactic although Tyrone were also guilty of this at times.

Pegasusbridge

While I would prefer to see a sin bin introduced, I think the black card could be a useful rule change. When Cavanagh committed the foul there was still about 15-20 mins to go I think. Now losing Cavanagh, even if he is replaced, is a big loss. Yes a replacement has fresh legs but he's unlikely to be as influential as Cavanagh. The same thing happened against Meath. Tyrone would have had to play the last 20 or so without their best player. Also after three (I think) black cards you can't replace a player anymore so a team will have to be careful early in a match in case they pick up cards towards the end of the game.

Sam Hain

Choochtown wrote: »

Agreed re. The 2 players at half time. I think that perhaps only 1 punch was clearly seen by the umpires although if the ref had seen (maybe not allowed to) the replay he would have had no choice but to send both of them off.
Don't agree with you regarding the Hughes decision. As a neutral I thought the ref had a fairly good game. Some frees were hard to call as both teams were engaging in shirt grabbing followed by a fall to gain a free. Monaghan scored their first point from a free by using this tactic although Tyrone were also guilty of this at times.

Early on Tyrone benefited from some soft calls that resulted in pointed frees. I know Monaghan are no saints either but I think Tyrone benefited more from the referees decisions or sometimes lack of.

macadam

Sam Hain wrote: »

What are you on about? You should just keep nominating people to be banned. That suits you best. Can we now just please stay on subject.

I've read that exact comment earlier today will check back, do you come on here to be abused? I dont, I come on to give my point of view, i think yesterdays game has being throughly discussed thats why its developing into a slagging match.

Choochtown

Pegasusbridge wrote: »

While I would prefer to see a sin bin introduced, I think the black card could be a useful rule change. When Cavanagh committed the foul there was still about 15-20 mins to go I think. Now losing Cavanagh, even if he is replaced, is a big loss. Yes a replacement has fresh legs but he's unlikely to be as influential as Cavanagh. The same thing happened against Meath. Tyrone would have had to play the last 20 or so without their best player. Also after three (I think) black cards you can't replace a player anymore so a team will have to be careful early in a match in case they pick up cards towards the end of the game.

Agreed although the "weaker" counties who have less strength in depth may feel that the black card rule favours those with a stronger bench.

Sam Hain

Choochtown wrote: »

Agreed although the "weaker" counties who have less strength in depth may feel that the black card rule favours those with a stronger bench.

the black card rule isn't the answer, its heading in the right direction at least.

Pegasusbridge

Choochtown wrote: »

Agreed although the "weaker" counties who have less strength in depth may feel that the black card rule favours those with a stronger bench.

That is true. I suppose there is also a danger of teams trying to get a well known opponent black carded for that reason. I would hope that it will put pressure on players to not commit cynical fouls as now it will be hurting their team rather then taking a yellow for the team and then being careful.

Stoner

I was at the game yesterday. I'm never neutral at games, I wanted monaghan to win. The monaghan supporters were livid about the referees decision but he did all he could IMHO .

Tyrone deserved it, they were better and worked a lot less for their scores. Apart from Clerkin they just got behind the ball and looked to pick out their remaining two man forward line, it was predictable and not enough on the day.

macadam

Stoner wrote: »

I was at the game yesterday. I'm never neutral at games, I wanted monaghan to win. The monaghan supporters were livid about the referees decision but he did all he could IMHO .

Tyrone deserved it, they were better and worked a lot less for their scores. Apart from Clerkin they just got behind the ball and looked to pick out their remaining two man forward line, it was predictable and not enough on the day.

I was the same, neutral and shouting for Monaghan, but the booing was a disgrace at the end, its the rules that are wrong, the ref could only implement them as he seen and that's what he done.

macadam

I thought the panels were reduced to 26 players, how many players had Tyrone on there bench I counted 29, and I think Dublin had the same, does anyone at HQ check these I know the list is made out with 26 and their numbered 1-26 but Tyrone put two players on one wearing 28 the other wearing 31.

Drumpot

Choochtown wrote: »

You would therefore concede that (according to your definition above) some Monaghan players also cheated yesterday?

Im from Dublin. Players on all teams cheat and commit strategic fouls that go unpunished in comparison to the damage they can cause to an opponent.

The reason Tyrone are highlighted is because they are particularly good at it. That shouldn't be applauded in anyway. They have simply perfected the art of cheating . .

edgecutter

macadam wrote: »

I was the same, neutral and shouting for Monaghan, but the booing was a disgrace at the end, its the rules that are wrong, the ref could only implement them as he seen and that's what he done.

Why was it a disgrace? Surely we should be condemning these kind of tackles that stop moves that could potentially win the game not celebrate illegal tackles.

macadam

edgecutter wrote: »

Why was it a disgrace? Surely we should be condemning these kind of tackles that stop moves that could potentially win the game not celebrate illegal tackles.

How can you blame the players, there were equally as many cynical fouls committed by Monaghan players, Ive watched Monaghan a few times this year and they are as Cynical as any.
You need to change it at Congress thats the route, the players will break the rules all the ref can do is implement them, which he did..

smashey

Sam Hain wrote: »

What are you on about? You should just keep nominating people to be banned. That suits you best. Can we now just please stay on subject.

Leave the moderation to us please.

edgecutter

macadam wrote: »

How can you blame the players, there were equally as many cynical fouls committed by Monaghan players, Ive watched Monaghan a few times this year and they are as Cynical as any.
You need to change it at Congress thats the route, the players will break the rules all the ref can do is implement them, which he did..

I never blamed the player, I was annoyed that he got motm because it enhances the idea that all players can get away with rugby challenges and be hailed a hero.

Yes Monaghan can be cynical (which team isn't) but Tyrone do it often and nine times out of ten get away with.

the kelt

edgecutter wrote: »

I never blamed the player, I was annoyed that he got motm because it enhances the idea that all players can get away with rugby challenges and be hailed a hero.

Yes Monaghan can be cynical (which team isn't) but Tyrone do it often and nine times out of ten get away with.

Man of the match is given to the player who was the best player on the day, it's nothing to do with being a hero, Cavanagh was the best player on the pitch with only Mc Manus from Monaghan coming close to challenging him in that respect.

The fact he committed a yellow card offence that 99% of intercounty footballers would have committed in the same circumstances doesn't change his performance on the day. If Monaghan had won despite Cavanaghs foul would there been as much ****e about one tackle?

There are valid points about cynisism in the modern game from Tyrone and a lot of other teams but for Joe Brolly to comment on the manliness of Sean Cavangh because of a tackle that he would have had no hesitation in committing himself in his day is a disgrace and Brolly should apologise immediately. Brolly changes like the wind and made a tool of himself last night, his comments were a disgrace and any validity in the comments he made about cynisism in the game were lost in his attack on one of the modern day greats of modern day football.

As an aside, my inlaws are all Monaghan GAA people and not one genuine Monaghan GAA person i spoke to in Croker yesterday said anything other than Cavangh done what any Monaghan footballer would have done in the same position.

listermint

the kelt wrote: »

Man of the match is given to the player who was the best player on the day, it's nothing to do with being a hero, Cavanagh was the best player on the pitch with only Mc Manus from Monaghan coming close to challenging him in that respect.

The fact he committed a yellow card offence that 99% of intercounty footballers would have committed in the same circumstances doesn't change his performance on the day. If Monaghan had won despite Cavanaghs foul would there been as much ****e about one tackle?

There are valid points about cynisism in the modern game from Tyrone and a lot of other teams but for Joe Brolly to comment on the manliness of Sean Cavangh because of a tackle that he would have had no hesitation in committing himself in his day is a disgrace and Brolly should apologise immediately. Brolly changes like the wind and made a tool of himself last night, his comments were a disgrace and any validity in the comments he made about cynisism in the game were lost in his attack on one of the modern day greats of modern day football.

As an aside, my inlaws are all Monaghan GAA people and not one genuine Monaghan GAA person i spoke to in Croker yesterday said anything other than Cavangh done what any Monaghan footballer would have done in the same position.

Is hilarious one can throw around terms like modern day greats on athletes that (as you well know) fall back on cheating in a be all end all win. That does in no way make you a modern day great. By saying that you make the term disposable. As already eluded to buy a previous poster fouling is cheating and cheating is fouling. If this is the default mentality to fall back on then that removes one entirely from being a character to idolise.

Cavanagh is a fine fine footballer with sheer athleticism whom doesn't need to resort to the shenanigans that went on, the fact that it's put on display at the highest echelons of the game should be more personal embarrassment to himself Because his natural abilities don't justify the lowest common denominator football.

Playing the game to foul is not playing the game. And it's not the type of football anyone wants to watch.

So in short yes fouling is cheating regardless of the team or players. But if the stall is set out with that as your intention then you simply don't deserve an all Ireland. Your just ****ting all over the hundreds of other players in the league who may not possess the ability you have but have just as much drive and ambition.


And people have the gall to point fingers at the GAA for causing the problem. It's chancers pushing the boundaries to where they shouldn't be.


Zero ethics and zero respect.



And I'm neutral in this before someone calls me a Monaghon apologist or Tyrone begrudger. Watching it in the ground yesterday was disappointing.

aveytare

McGee's disgraceful stamp wasn't even mentioned in the Sunday Game analysis. Ridiculous. But then again it doesn't compare to the first ever cynical foul in the history of Gaelic Football.

Gordon West

Apart from the personal attack on Sean Cavanagh's manliness,Joe Brolly was absolutely right in what he said. That tackle was a disgrace. There should be no place for cynical or unsporting behaviour on the field of play. There are possibly two things wrong here 1: non implementation by referee of the rules or 2: inadequate rules

The GAA have several things to sort out or our game will be lost to the tribal thuggery and cynical methods of play being orchestrated by the likes of Tyrone and Mickey Harte.

muincav

As a former rugby player I can laugh at what Brolly and others called Sean Cavanaghs tackle,,,,a rugby tackle would have been a lot harder, but my point is what Sean did was what anyone would have done today, and the only difference is that years ago if a player was going through on goal like that he would NOT have been softly brought down to stop a goal he would have been flattened! And in all honesty he would, and because it was a "hard" tackle there wouldnt have been as much sh1te about it, Joe (forgot to take his pills) Brolly included.....In my opinion, Sean Cavanagh did what it took but in a "nice" way...well done SEAN -a Gentleman...and a genius..

J Cheever Loophole

Drumpot wrote: »

Im from Dublin. Players on all teams cheat and commit strategic fouls that go unpunished in comparison to the damage they can cause to an opponent.

The reason Tyrone are highlighted is because they are particularly good at it. That shouldn't be applauded in anyway. They have simply perfected the art of cheating . .

This here post hits the nail on the head. I would though add one small point - I believe there has been something particularly brash and brazen about the manner in which Tyrone have cynically fouled over the least two games which can be very infuriating both to the opposition and indeed the neutral watching. It is that I feel that has particularly exercised Joe.

mickey1979

I have never played the game much at any level but I love it. But have been advocating for years that the vast majority of rule changes should favor the attacking team if you are to make GAA visually a better game. NFL has gone down this road making defending harder and they feel they have a better game. I think it would do no harm to make rule changes which favor open attacking play. I don't think Cavanagh did anything outrageous but if you were to punish this type of fouling in an over the top fashion, it would not be long before they stop it and work to the new rules its up to the GAA to lead not players and managers. Go hard on the fouling and managers would learn quickly to adapt. Always thought the GAA is slightly backward in this area.

bedirect

Well done Joe Brolly, the game should be played in a sporting manner not win at all cost. We have refs going about with logo, Give respect get respect, how can this be the case when situations like this are allowed to develop. Its like the 3rd man tackle, that should have been nipped in the bud. The trouble is at present everybodys attitude is do what you can get away with. This seems to have leaked its way onto the football pitch. Well spoken Joe Brolly, you told it as it is. This wil haunt tyrone the same way the Joe Sheridan goal in the Leinster final brought no luck for Meath

smashey

bedirect wrote: »

This wil haunt tyrone the same way the Joe Sheridan goal in the Leinster final brought no luck for Meath

I very much doubt it. Do you think if the same situation arises in the semi final that the Tyrone players wouldn't do the same thing again?

bedirect

Somebody wrote yesterday that the Dubs never pulled down kevin Foley on his way to score that goal in the Dublin V Meath saga. People have now finally realise what they have been doing for years, they will never finish with 15 men against Mayo as every ref in the country will now be out to nail them, (and they deserve it). The whole country now wants Mayo to beat them

km79

Any word on whether Gormley is gonna get suspended ?