Whats the story with this angel craze

5uspect

5uspect wrote: »

It's becoming a big business, apparently

There's also quite a few evening classes in "Angel Therapy" and "Healing with Angels". Crumlin College (of Further Education) is running classes in "Angel Card Reading".

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

gaynorvader wrote: »

What if I manually dismiss it as rubbish?



That's how the ouija board got started!

As is our right, but you'd have to tell me what you thought you were dismissing.

Regarding the Oijuia board (and open to correction here, bevcuse i don;t know much about it) it's beleived to do soemthign completely different to tarot cards.

kylith

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

No, because if you're predicting the future you're claimg to know about a set course of events. Predicting the future doesn't take into account free will. It assumes that the future will follow a preset pattern and choices have already been made.

If your mother tells you to wear a coat when you go out or you'll catch a cold, she's not predicting the future. If, however, she were to say, "you;re going to catch a cold" that would be a prediction, because it implies choosing to wear a coat will make no difference.

'Wear your coat or you'll catch cold' is a prediction that if you don't wear a coat you will become ill, this is a prediction about the future. If angel cards go even so far as to say 'there will be hard times ahead' that is a prediction about the future and future circumstances just as much as if someone said 'you will get run over by a car.

The questions which you suggested yourself: "what would happen if I did this?" or "what's the most likely scenario if I did this?" are questions which to which the answers would be predictions. They would be predicting what the most likely outcome would be, or what would likely happen if X was done. Just the same as if someone asked 'What would your mother do?' and I said 'She'd probably be angry', I would be making a prediction about my mother's future mood. The prediction might be wrong, but that doesn't mean that it's not a prediction.

The only way to use any kind of system like this and not make predictions is if every reading was 'unclear' or 'unknown', because those words do not make any predictions, good or ill, about the future. It'd be the only truthful reading too.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

As is our right, but you'd have to tell me what you thought you were dismissing.

Regarding the Oijuia board (and open to correction here, bevcuse i don;t know much about it) it's beleived to do soemthign completely different to tarot cards.

It's believed to be contact with the dead. What it is, and what it was originally marketed as, is a way of accessing your subconscious. You can say that angel cards are a way of contacting your subconscious, and I'm sure that you impress that upon everyone you do a reading for, but if the average person using them believes that they are actually receiving guidance from angels or spirits then they become vulnerable to the kind of charlatans who peddle this kind of nonsense in the first place.

ShooterSF

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Regarding the Oijuia board (and open to correction here, bevcuse i don;t know much about it) it's beleived to do soemthign completely different to tarot cards.

It was a parlour game developed by Hasbro.

nozzferrahhtoo

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

1 - Possibly so. The theory is that the cards connect you withyour inner self, because no one will know the probelm as you do.

Which essentially means nothing at all. If you get a standard deck of playing cards and assign meanings to the values... say emotions to all the hearts.... family members to all the diamonds.... events like birthdays or whatever to all the spades.... and so on.... then you are going to have a tool to help focus the mind.

You could deal "Birthday... Sister" in a random hand and think "Oh yes I must get that gift ordered for my sister on Amazon"

All you are doing is allowing the random events of some system, in this case cards, to influence where your mind goes. You could do it with anything. Dice. Cards. Coins. Tea Leaves. A computer Program. Or by sticking a pin randomly in the phone book.

Nothing wrong with that per se but I would not recommend it myself.

If however you go any further than that at all.... starting to talk about "connecting energies" or wishy washy nonsense about the subconscious mind.... or as with many of these cards.... angels, splirits or other non-human intelligences.... then you are engaging in perpetuating unsubstantiated nonsense and fraud and woo. Which is what the sellers of such cards are engaging in... either by making direct claims about what such tools achieve.... or by saying nothing at all but putting words like "Angel" in the name of them to allow people to leap to their own nonsense conclusions.

You suggest there is nothing supernatural about these cards but one would be a naive fool to think a word like "angel" is attached to such a product without any fore-knowledge of the kind of baggage that will connect in in the minds of the average Joe or Jane McGullible and as has been pointed out you are likely in a vast minority of people who do not make such connections when discussing such products.

krudler

Let's replace the word "angel" with "Optimus Prime".

So I was going through a bad patch in my life, and I went to an Opimus Prime card reader, she took a look at my Optimus Prime aura and did an Optimus Prime card reading and told my my guardian Optimus Prime was on my shoulder keeping watch, I pray to my Optimus Prime nightly and hopefully they'll keep an eye out for me, along with all the other Optimus Primes in heaven.


Yeah...

Sarky

krudler wrote: »

Let's replace the word "angel" with "Optimus Prime".

So I was going through a bad patch in my life, and I went to an Opimus Prime card reader, she took a look at my Optimus Prime aura and did an Optimus Prime card reading and told my my guardian Optimus Prime was on my shoulder keeping watch, I pray to my Optimus Prime nightly and hopefully they'll keep an eye out for me, along with all the other Optimus Primes in heaven.


Yeah...

Christ, just when the scars of the last Transformers schism had healed over...

Doctor DooM

krudler wrote: »

Let's replace the word "angel" with "Optimus Prime".

So I was going through a bad patch in my life, and I went to an Opimus Prime card reader, she took a look at my Optimus Prime aura and did an Optimus Prime card reading and told my my guardian Optimus Prime was on my shoulder keeping watch, I pray to my Optimus Prime nightly and hopefully they'll keep an eye out for me, along with all the other Optimus Primes in heaven.


Yeah...

May the 13 Primes watch over you.

krudler

Doctor DooM wrote: »

May the 13 Primes watch over you.

I can't wait to see the white smoke every time the Matrix of Leadership is handed over, all hail Francis Prime!

Sarky

Who is he to judge a Decepticon?

Galvasean

As the Robots in Disguise comic points out, it's okay to be a Decepticon, just don't do Decepticon things.

PopePalpatine

I'd rather be a Decepticon than obey John Paul Prime II.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

kylith wrote: »

'Wear your coat or you'll catch cold' is a prediction that if you don't wear a coat you will become ill, this is a prediction about the future. If angel cards go even so far as to say 'there will be hard times ahead' that is a prediction about the future and future circumstances just as much as if someone said 'you will get run over by a car.

The questions which you suggested yourself: "what would happen if I did this?" or "what's the most likely scenario if I did this?" are questions which to which the answers would be predictions. They would be predicting what the most likely outcome would be, or what would likely happen if X was done. Just the same as if someone asked 'What would your mother do?' and I said 'She'd probably be angry', I would be making a prediction about my mother's future mood. The prediction might be wrong, but that doesn't mean that it's not a prediction.

Firstly, I'm talkign abotu tarot cards, not angel cards.

A prediction would be "this is going to happen" - no ifs, no buts. In any case, there is a difference between givign advice and pretneing to be psycvhic and makign a prediction: that's the point I was making.

The only way to use any kind of system like this and not make predictions is if every reading was 'unclear' or 'unknown', because those words do not make any predictions, good or ill, about the future. It'd be the only truthful reading too.

The future IS unknown - that's the point I was making.

It's believed to be contact with the dead. What it is, and what it was originally marketed as, is a way of accessing your subconscious. You can say that angel cards are a way of contacting your subconscious, and I'm sure that you impress that upon everyone you do a reading for, but if the average person using them believes that they are actually receiving guidance from angels or spirits then they become vulnerable to the kind of charlatans who peddle this kind of nonsense in the first place.

I always beleived it to be contacting the decased (which is not what Tarot cards do). I have no experence of it and have never heard of it as a subscious tool, but I cuodl see how it would be used as so. I have to write a DISCLAIMER here, though, as I know very little abotut and could well be wrong.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Which essentially means nothing at all. If you get a standard deck of playing cards and assign meanings to the values... say emotions to all the hearts.... family members to all the diamonds.... events like birthdays or whatever to all the spades.... and so on.... then you are going to have a tool to help focus the mind.

You could deal "Birthday... Sister" in a random hand and think "Oh yes I must get that gift ordered for my sister on Amazon"

All you are doing is allowing the random events of some system, in this case cards, to influence where your mind goes. You could do it with anything. Dice. Cards. Coins. Tea Leaves. A computer Program. Or by sticking a pin randomly in the phone book.

Nothing wrong with that per se but I would not recommend it myself.

If however you go any further than that at all.... starting to talk about "connecting energies" or wishy washy nonsense about the subconscious mind.... or as with many of these cards.... angels, splirits or other non-human intelligences.... then you are engaging in perpetuating unsubstantiated nonsense and fraud and woo. Which is what the sellers of such cards are engaging in... either by making direct claims about what such tools achieve.... or by saying nothing at all but putting words like "Angel" in the name of them to allow people to leap to their own nonsense conclusions.

You suggest there is nothing supernatural about these cards but one would be a naive fool to think a word like "angel" is attached to such a product without any fore-knowledge of the kind of baggage that will connect in in the minds of the average Joe or Jane McGullible and as has been pointed out you are likely in a vast minority of people who do not make such connections when discussing such products.

The standard deck of cards is actually descended from Tarot cards. The meaninggs go back to the Renaissance era.

I pointed out that there is nothing supernatural about Tarot cards, not angel cards. As for the claims made of people who create or sell angel cards, you'd have to take it up with them.

Brian Shanahan

krudler wrote: »

Let's replace the word "angel" with "Optimus Prime".

So I was going through a bad patch in my life, and I went to an Opimus Prime card reader, she took a look at my Optimus Prime aura and did an Optimus Prime card reading and told my my guardian Optimus Prime was on my shoulder keeping watch, I pray to my Optimus Prime nightly and hopefully they'll keep an eye out for me, along with all the other Optimus Primes in heaven.


Yeah...

nozzferrahhtoo

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I pointed out that there is nothing supernatural about Tarot cards, not angel cards. As for the claims made of people who create or sell angel cards, you'd have to take it up with them.

There is no reason to think any supernatural about ANY of them. As for taking it up with them, they do not posts here. I was merely replying to your post. The point I was making is that if one makes any claim about these cards at all other than as a tool for focusing the mind in a rather random and unfocused way then one is on shaky ground. If you do not want to reply to that point then simply don't. The point stands.

kylith

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Firstly, I'm talkign abotu tarot cards, not angel cards.

Sorry, but since this thread is about the Angel craze I'm sure you can understand. Anyway, Angel cards are tarot cards with different pictures.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tarot

A prediction would be "this is going to happen" - no ifs, no buts.

I'm sorry, but that isn't what it means. The weather forecast is a prediction, does that mean that it's definitely going to be as rainy or as nice as predicted? No. One predicts the outcome of a football match, one predicts the winner of a race; Predict merely means 'Said before'. The word you're thinking of is predestined.

In any case, there is a difference between givign advice and pretneing to be psycvhic and makign a prediction: that's the point I was making.

There is a difference, but I think we can agree that neither should be done by someone who doesn't know all the details of a persons life, and certainly not by relying on bits of pretty cardboard.

I always beleived it to be contacting the decased (which is not what Tarot cards do). I have no experence of it and have never heard of it as a subscious tool, but I cuodl see how it would be used as so. I have to write a DISCLAIMER here, though, as I know very little abotut and could well be wrong.

It's a common misconception, even (especially) in the paranormal forum. The ouija board was designed and marketed by a games company as an entertaining way of accessing the subconscious, like automatic writing. The planchette is moved by the people touching it through the ideomotor effect. Anyone who tells you it's for contacting the dead, demons, spirits, or that it's in any way dangerous is wrong. Of course, they don't like you telling them they're wrong, but they are.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

kylith wrote: »

Sorry, but since this thread is about the Angel craze I'm sure you can understand. Anyway, Angel cards are tarot cards with different pictures.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tarot


I'm sorry, but that isn't what it means. The weather forecast is a prediction, does that mean that it's definitely going to be as rainy or as nice as predicted? No. One predicts the outcome of a football match, one predicts the winner of a race; Predict merely means 'Said before'. The word you're thinking of is predestined.

There is a difference, but I think we can agree that neither should be done by someone who doesn't know all the details of a persons life, and certainly not by relying on bits of pretty cardboard.


It's a common misconception, even (especially) in the paranormal forum. The ouija board was designed and marketed by a games company as an entertaining way of accessing the subconscious, like automatic writing. The planchette is moved by the people touching it through the ideomotor effect. Anyone who tells you it's for contacting the dead, demons, spirits, or that it's in any way dangerous is wrong. Of course, they don't like you telling them they're wrong, but they are.

No worries, but your definition has nothing to do with (and makes no reference to) angel cards: angel cards (again, from an inexperienced point of view) seem to be more inspirational than anything else. The people who use them make different claims than tarot cards.

Take your point about the predestined, but again, it's not one of the functions of tarot cards.