Collins Christie Memorial

Inquitus

morana wrote: »

I dont know if CI listen here any more but you can shout back

rate my ride

hopefully its active

Not available to rate at the moment, unfortunately.

Arthurdaly

I'd tend to agree with Frank Grimes on this one. The reality is riders will do what's necessary to try get up in race and if that means crossing the white line then they will do it, not saying its right but that is what is happening.

Obviously you would not see this situation happen in a race like Des Hanlon/Newbridge/Stamullen but I guess every race can't have hills and there needs to be some flattish ones.

I purposely didn't race this one as it stood as a potentially dangerous race. Numbers should definitely be limited, 100+ on a flat race with small roads as its going to be dicey!

FrankGrimes

scoopers wrote: »

I agree that it is sometimes neccessary to go on the wrong side of the road, but when u do that u go to the front and either pushbor reposition yourself in the bunch somewhere. But u should definately not stay on the wrong side of the road on purpose to hold position and stop the riders that want to race from going to the front.

Agree fully and also agree that there does seem to be a lot of riders (today in particular) sitting there in the lock/block position mentioned above whereby they sit on the right side not moving up to the front or letting other riders come through. After deciding to attack (I'd also gone off the front briefly 10km from home and then fell into the pack about 20 back after being caught) it took about 3km of actively looking for a gap (being reasonably assertive but not pushy) to find one - when it came it was on the right side so I went for it very quickly and moved back leftwards as soon as I could. For those 3km, there were about 15 riders just maintaining their position, which was near the front but on the right side of the road. Madness.

dave_o_brien

FrankGrimes wrote: »

Not at all. The point is that there needs to first be an acknowledgement that there is a widespread issue with riding on the wrong side of the road: several serious accidents have already happened as a result and it is very fortunate that they have not resulted in very serious injuries.

The first step in making progress with drink driving was acknowledging the severity and extent of the issue.

@Beasty - so the first thing I suggest be done is for there to be official acknowledgement of the extent of wrong-siding currently taking place and the risk (and contravention of both CI rules and the rules of the road) it poses both to rider safety and the sustainability of the current road race model (which could be threatened as per the Swords case).

The second thing is to then issue a directive from CI on what the consequences (more on what those could be below) of wrong-siding will be. I've heard individual commisairres the odd time say before races that there'd be consequences for wrong-siding and thought 'fair play to him' as he tried to gain the crowd's attention. But it seems actual cases of reprimands are very rare and certainly not affecting the large numbers doing it.

It seems the 'what to do about it?' question has two parts - detection and consequences. If we had widespread detection, even if the penalty was minor (I dunno, names of warned riders reported to clubs/CI website/Stickybottle, commissairre seeking out each rider for a warning at the end of the race), it would act as a strong deterrent for many (i.e. just removing the 'nothing will ever happen' mentality would make a big impact on many people).

Commissaires could be asked to report all wrongsiders to CI whereby their race number is added to a database - I dunno, two strikes and you're disqualified from a race, 4 and your license is postponed. Haven't had time to think through any of the details here, but you get the picture: whatever way this was configured, it should be possible, and it would give a very strong message.

Is there an unwritten acceptance that wrong-siding in the final KM for the sprint is ok? If not, race finish photos (or whatever evidence is used to determine placings) could be used - people on the wrong side at the finish either get warned or straight out disqualified. But I do have a hunch there is an unwritten acceptance that wrong-siding in a sprint is OK, and that's probably the nub right there - if that is the case, where is the line drawn?

Not sure about riders reporting other riders, could have repercussions and be open to abuse (maybe if two separate clubs report a rider for dangerous behaviour it's taken as corroborated and regarded as a warning). I know the officials in the front and rear cars have a lot on their plate, but maybe they could be asked to specifically track wrong-siders for at least a period of time until changes in behaviour are identified.

This is all top of mind thoughts, not necessarily thought through, but the key point is it needs to be acknowledged before a grave injury occurs and then there needs to be a window for riders/clubs to provide input on possible ways to address the issue.

FWIW, I agree, but I don;t think a consensus on the severity of the problem is an issue. It is already a rule: enforce it, strictly and severely. It won't take long to see an effect.

I also agree with you regarding reporting riders. I meant in my post that a report would come from a comissaire/marshal, but perhaps a double-confirmation from riders would be useful too, where all reports were made to a comissaire and issued strictly anonymously.

Beasty

morana wrote: »

but probably easier, cheaper and quicker just to come on here and read the threads! (Maybe they do I dont honestly know )

One Board member made it clear to me that he doesn't read boards. I know another that lurks, but since you stepped down I don't think there has been much scrutiny of what goes on here

One thing I would encourage is for people to contact CI directly. I was discussing their review of the Commission structure with a Board member a while ago and he said that my representation (made via the website) was one of only 5 or so they had received at that time

I will probably be making some representations to the Board in a personal capacity in connection with racing (club and open) ahead of the AGM. I've already made some suggestions on the constitution given a number of issues I identified in the lead up to the recent EGM. I'm hopeful they will take some of my comments on Board and bring forward proposals to the next AGM. Having said that clubs are also entitled to propose resolutions at the AGM, but need to be formulating them over the next few weeks. Basically it's another of those situations where the members need to make their concerns known otherwise they cannot complain if nothing gets done about it

Beasty

buffalo wrote: »

http://www.stickybottle.com/races-results/u23-international-daniel-stewart-wins-colm-christle-memorial-from-colin-robinson/

I think this is the same race...

Interesting - the first 2 over the line were both East Antrim riders ahead of one other (who was certainly not Craig Sweetman) who had broken away from the bunch at the start of the final lap),

buffalo

Beasty wrote: »

Interesting - the first 2 over the line were both East Antrim riders ahead of one other (who was certainly not Craig Sweetman) who had broken away from the bunch at the start of the final lap),

It resulted in this rather amusing photo at the finish (credit to Raam for bringing it to my attention):



But in response to your musings, I don't know why only one is listed.

Inquitus

buffalo wrote: »

It resulted in this rather amusing photo at the finish (credit to Raam for bringing it to my attention):



But in response to your musings, I don't know why only one is listed.

Clearly the winner was a 4 armed man on a three wheeled bike

couerdelion

Didn't enjoy that at all today. My main aim was just to sit in the bunch and just get round but even in the first lap or two there were too many hairy moments and I have to work tomorrow morning so made a decision to sit in at the back. Constant cries of "Car" and brakes being slammed on as riders pushed back to the left meant it was like a concertina for huge sections so off to the back I drifted.

Last lap I did have a look at moving up just after the first left turn into the headwind but the bunch quickly spread out across the road and any ways of moving up was blocked.

I saw the first incident on the last lap when a cyclist had to slam on and steer left to miss a car that had pulled in coming towards us and saw the crash not too far in front of me about a km from the end.

No idea what you can do about people taking up the whole road - last week in Gorey the roads were plenty wide but there was still a crash towards the end as someone hit a car parked on the opposite side.

It is going to get to a stage where someone is seriously injured or the Garda just stop races and we'll be confined to closed roads or circuits.

pmurp141

Inquitus wrote: »

Clearly the winner was a 4 armed man on a three wheeled bike

more interesting is the side of the white line they are!!!

Beasty

A photo that helps illustrate the issue ...



The guys on the left side of the photo clearly have no idea what may be round the bend

AtomMcC

Pulling out when the A1/A2/A3 race was stopped was a smart move. Wish I did the same and my arm wouldn't be in a sling with my season over.
Pure madness.

wav1

Beasty wrote: »

Interesting - the first 2 over the line were both East Antrim riders ahead of one other (who was certainly not Craig Sweetman) who had broken away from the bunch at the start of the final lap),

One of the Easst Antrim riders was disqualified after the finish.
Story is something along the lines of the following.
When the crash happened at the end of the A4 race the main event was pulled in at the side of the road with a little over a lap to go.A few riders had a slight advantage and this was noted.After about a twenty minute delay the race was restarted and the riders were given the slight advantage they held at the time of the stoppage.These riders extended their lead and were never seen again.The problem arose later when ''it appears'' that one of the East Antrim riders was never in the original break and should never have gone off with the leaders.Result disqualification...Just another chapter to a day that many will wish to banish from the memory.

dermabrasion

Inquitus wrote: »

Clearly the winner was a 4 armed man on a three wheeled bike

That was Krashnu, the Hindu deity of bike racing

Actual Paramedic

AtomMcC wrote: »

Pulling out when the A1/A2/A3 race was stopped was a smart move. Wish I did the same and my arm wouldn't be in a sling with my season over.
Pure madness.

Seems like an action packed day with all the drama and even the results changing at the end. Sorry to hear about the arm AtomMcC, just means your winter starts earlier and your out of the madness

colm_gti

AtomMcC wrote: »

Pulling out when the A1/A2/A3 race was stopped was a smart move. Wish I did the same and my arm wouldn't be in a sling with my season over.
Pure madness.

Sorry to hear AtomMcC, speedy recovery!

wav1

Lots of factors add to the mayhem discussed about this race and lots of other races.Today i would say too many turned up for the type pf roads in use.Add in rider behaviour,driver behaviour,busy roads,etc etc and you have mayhem.Realistically we're never going to have closed roads.The secret here is whether officially or otherwise and if possible in conjunction with the friendliest member you can meet at your local Garda station is to have diversions in place for the duration of the race where on the narrow and twisty sections.that the traffic is rolling in the same direction as the race.Its very simple and not rocket science.Result is safer races and drivers not getting the s..t scared out of them and becoming disgruntled at the riders.Its a kind of a sneaky way of making it a bit safer.

Actual Paramedic

wav1 wrote: »

Lots of factors add to the mayhem discussed about this race and lots of other races.Today i would say too many turned up for the type pf roads in use.Add in rider behaviour,driver behaviour,busy roads,etc etc and you have mayhem.Realistically we're never going to have closed roads.The secret here is whether officially or otherwise and if possible in conjunction with the friendliest member you can meet at your local Garda station is to have diversions in place for the duration of the race where on the narrow and twisty sections.that the traffic is rolling in the same direction as the race.Its very simple and not rocket science.Result is safer races and drivers not getting the s..t scared out of them and becoming disgruntled at the riders.Its a kind of a sneaky way of making it a bit safer.

Indeed don't want to be negative as the number of races been organised seems less than before and people arranging the races do it for the sport and not profit like some other sporting disciplines.

Having traffic roll in the same direction would be an ideal improvement but you also need to get the cooperation of the locals living on the course to do the same along with the local Garda.

Limiting field size is an option but from a financial point of view may mean an increase in sign on to make sure costs are covered.

wav1

Actual Paramedic wrote: »

Indeed don't want to be negative as the number of races been organised seems less than before and people arranging the races do it for the sport and not profit like some other sporting disciplines.

Having traffic roll in the same direction would be an ideal improvement but you also need to get the cooperation of the locals living on the course to do the same along with the local Garda.

Limiting field size is an option but from a financial point of view may mean an increase in sign on to make sure costs are covered.

Key to the diversion thing working is agreement with the residents and tbh if you take the time and talk to them they on the whole will be happy enough to go along with it.Pump it up and say how great it is for the local villlage blah blah blah to have an event like this etc etc.Just basically liase liase.

Beasty

Actual Paramedic wrote: »

Limiting field size is an option but from a financial point of view may mean an increase in sign on to make sure costs are covered.

I agree that an increase in sign-on fees is probably long overdue, but as I understand it races used to be run with much smaller fields. I accept costs have gone up (and I am sure will continue to go up), particularly in connection with safety measures, but one thing I think promoters must consider is cutting the prize funds (and if that also encourages fewer to sign-on then all the better, although I suspect it won't make much difference at all)

Inquitus

Any photo's knocking about, bar Beasty's evidence above, I note I am on the inside of the correct side of the road!

Beasty

Inquitus wrote: »

Any photo's knocking about, bar Beasty's evidence above, I note I am on the inside of the correct side of the road!

I chose the example carefully

More on this facebook page

colm_gti

Beasty wrote: »

I chose the example carefully

More on this facebook page

Very unflattering pic of me right there trying to suck air into my lungs first time across the start/lap/finish line :rolleyes:

dedocdude

wav1 wrote: »

a day that many will wish to banish from the memory.

Keep in the memory i would have thought, lads need to learn from this - that photo posted above is shocking, how lads think riding hard to the ditch on the opposite side is a good idea is beyond me.

Comms need to get tough - Garda need to get involved like the police in the UK - they have no problem pulling a race if lads are acting the maggot -

smithslist

Riders need to understand the danger, as well as the organizers and commissaires. From the long time Ive been cycling this race has always never had enough marshals, and no race can have enough marshals. There are a number of riders that avoid these races, I started the last two years and will add this one to my list along with a CI complaint, its the only way riders\organizers will learn.

I heard also there was no lead car yesterday for the main event, just the commissaires car leading the bunch, and the commissaires were driving there own car, on that basis the race should've been pulled. Having the mass start was asking for trouble.

Races like these should have co-operation and are only suitable for evening time racing, the numbers are too big for a Sunday event. And on that the Sunday event should be a separated event and a longer race(distance wise).

Another thing, the list of prizes for the event was way too much, having 6 prizes for unplaced A2 and 6 prizes for unplaced A3, 3 is enough prizes to give for unplaced results. All these prizes is asking for mayhem in the last lap\finish straight.

maloner

Suitable encouragement from the rest of the bunch that riding dangerously isn't acceptable is something that can be done without committees and AGM's and the like. If you see someone doing something stupid like heading up the wrong side of the road when its dangerous (its not always dangerous in my humble first year of racing opinion) let them know its dangerous?

Not in a "there's a car coming you should get back over here", but more "quit that crap, no crossing solid white lines". If its not sorted, the alternative is pretty obvious I'd have thought, and that would be racing is banned after one crash too many.

smurphy29

Wasn't at this race, glad I missed it. After the SERC GP I didn't have much appetite for another flat mass sprint.

Strange development that recent races have been more crashy. Races early in the season were messy, but things seemed to improve considerably in the middle of the sesaon, but it appears to have reverted somewhat.

Have a lot of the field only come to racing late in the season after trying out club racing, or have left it to now to start because they didn't train over the winter and didn't fell ready? Or are people a bit more desparate to get points given the weeks are running out?

Inquitus

smurphy29 wrote: »

Wasn't at this race, glad I missed it. After the SERC GP I didn't have much appetite for another flat mass sprint.

Strange development that recent races have been more crashy. Races early in the season were messy, but things seemed to improve considerably in the middle of the sesaon, but it appears to have reverted somewhat.

Have a lot of the field only come to racing late in the season after trying out club racing, or have left it to now to start because they didn't train over the winter and didn't fell ready? Or are people a bit more desparate to get points given the weeks are running out?

I think its just a combination of the field size, the roads and the flat tracks. The SERC GP was far safer than this race as it had a smaller field and much wider roads. SERC imo was very safe aside from the sprint, this was an accident waiting to happen from the very off.

FrankGrimes

maloner wrote: »

Suitable encouragement from the rest of the bunch that riding dangerously isn't acceptable is something that can be done without committees and AGM's and the like. If you see someone doing something stupid like heading up the wrong side of the road when its dangerous (its not always dangerous in my humble first year of racing opinion) let them know its dangerous?

Not in a "there's a car coming you should get back over here", but more "quit that crap, no crossing solid white lines". If its not sorted, the alternative is pretty obvious I'd have thought, and that would be racing is banned after one crash too many.

While I agree that we should do this and it should lead to riders changing behaviour, the reality is that most won't pull others up and most that are pulled up by fellow riders won't take any heed. So we should do it, but it won't be the primary cause of change.

In the early season, I frequently told riders when I thought they were being unnecessarily dangerous (making a decisive burst up the right-hand side of the road on a straight with good visibility is one thing, sitting over the line around a bend is another thing altogether). A few would respond by telling me to get stuffed, but most just didn't respond or pay any attention at all. So I stopped and directed my attention towards staying safe myself. Though yesterday was so out of hand I just had to roar at people but they took no notice and they know that as things stand, the chances of repurcussions are miniscule.

GlennaMaddy

Looking at Strava, the same course was used the evening before, I presume with a smaller field. interesting that nobody complained about it on here.

I've been banging on about white line crossing for two years now, but I'm usually met with shoulder shrugging 'thats the way it is' kind of response.

ht9zni1gs28crp

Being new to cycling and hoping to go racing next year is the lesson here not the lack of lessons? As far as I can see, you buy your licence and turn up!

I'm currently trying to learn in the Club league and in no way would deem myself race ready/race savvy to feel I could safely go racing!

These sort of stories seriously makes me think twice about it all!

wav1

smithslist wrote: »

Riders need to understand the danger, as well as the organizers and commissaires. From the long time Ive been cycling this race has always never had enough marshals, and no race can have enough marshals. There are a number of riders that avoid these races, I started the last two years and will add this one to my list along with a CI complaint, its the only way riders\organizers will learn.

I heard also there was no lead car yesterday for the main event, just the commissaires car leading the bunch, and the commissaires were driving there own car, on that basis the race should've been pulled. Having the mass start was asking for trouble.

Races like these should have co-operation and are only suitable for evening time racing, the numbers are too big for a Sunday event. And on that the Sunday event should be a separated event and a longer race(distance wise).

Another thing, the list of prizes for the event was way too much, having 6 prizes for unplaced A2 and 6 prizes for unplaced A3, 3 is enough prizes to give for unplaced results. All these prizes is asking for mayhem in the last lap\finish straight.

Firstly in relation to the above comments let me say that i would and do always err on the side of safety in any events that i run myself and i think those that know me and my club would generally agree with this.I had nothing to do with this race organisation,but as commented on,in a lot of the posts it is down to a combination of safety measures and equally rider behaviour.
You say you heard that there were no lead cars with the main race.I can state categorically that there were 2 lead cars,one of which is the new Leinster Safety car which has been put in place,to aid[free of charge] safety at races and other cycling events.
The other issue you mention is the prize list.Thats a real dammed if you do and dammed if you dont situation.With such a large entry i suppose the organisers were trying to be fair in giving the extra cat prizes.If they didn't give them you'd have someone on here having a rant sayiny ah they only gave 3 U/P prizes so on that one you cant win.
The risk assessment thing and all concerned with it is going to have to move up a notch imo.A very interesting fact that i recently found out,is that a risk assessment that is put in prior to an event,is only looked at if there any issues arising after the event.To be frank thats too late,and the whole safety thing should be nailed down before theres any issues of this sort.All stuff to ponder on going forward.

pmurp141

Inquitus wrote: »

I think its just a combination of the field size, the roads and the flat tracks. The SERC GP was far safer than this race as it had a smaller field and much wider roads. SERC imo was very safe aside from the sprint, this was an accident waiting to happen from the very off.

wasn't at the SERC gp so can't comment, i think even if the roads were wider the problem would have remained with that field size + rider attitude yday,(anyone have actual figures?). my point being that ppl just weren't pulling through, if riders on right were encouraged to pull through to the front and left by riders behind on the right. The effect would be 2 fold, the pace would be quicker if you want to hold position at front on left. this high pace will string out the field and then there is room for strong riders wanting to move up on the right. i know this is not always possible but on flatter courses the pace has to be higher! to stretch out the field.

smurphy29

Inquitis is right about SERC, the race was safe up until the sprint, because the road was so wide - it was only the finale that felt dangerous, and it was pretty messy. I didn't especially think riders at the front were pulling through but because the roads were wide there was no danger resulting in it, and there were enough drags to line riders out a bit, but not enough to cause a split.

More attacking riding would solve a lot of problems, but you might as well ask for the moon on a stick.

RO 06

Comms stopped a race in North yesterday when half of bunch on wrong side of road.Bit of discussion on Facebook bout it

FrankGrimes

dave_o_brien wrote: »

FWIW, I agree, but I don;t think a consensus on the severity of the problem is an issue. It is already a rule: enforce it, strictly and severely. It won't take long to see an effect.

There are many situations in law and in private organisations whereby a law/rule to address a particular offence exists but is not widely enforced. While it's technically correct to say the organisation has the right to start enforcing it widely any time they want, rightly or wrongly, that can lead to a sense of unfairness. If prevention is the goal, acknowledging the problem and publicising how it will be handled in future, is a far more effective approach. Noone can then feel hard done by or caught unaware when they are punished, and the act of publicising the new enforcement policy will prevent a large proportion of people reoffending. If CI were to tell riders the consequences of wrongsiding and it was seen to be implemented in practice, that would lead to a lot of changes.

I get the points about some courses being more dangerous than others - there are several courses I'll avoid next season, but as a new rider, you shouldn't have to spend a season dealing with very risky races to know which ones to avoid the following season, the races should just be safer. I totally get there is risk involved in racing and always will be, it's just the current situation with riders persistently on the wrong side of the road is making the risk unacceptably high. I think the photo Beasty posted completely and utterly demonstrates the need for change. I'm no angel myself and though I'm on the correct side in that pic, a pic at another point could have shown me on the right as it was the only place I could find a gap to make that attack. Difference is that wasn't on a corner and it was an out then straight back in move, can't for the life of me understand what's going through the heads of the many riders that were just sitting on the right of the road around bends, getting a place in an A4 race just isn't worth that level of risk.

All it takes is one boy racer going a bit too fast to come around that bend and the results would be horrific (to the poster asking what we mean by very serious injuries - I think people regard a broken bone as a serious injury, but a very serious injury would be one with permanent damage or worse). We all know there'd be a serious crackdown if a very serious injury was caused by wrongsiding and the warning signs are all clear so we shouldn't let it become one of those 'why didn't they see this coming and do something about it?' situations. I do think I'll raise it with my club board and see if the feedback can at least be submitted in the right manner.


I'll have a think at the end of the season about whether it's really worth it - I do love the buzz of racing and have no problem with risks where I'm largely in control, but some maniac can act the maggot can sit on the right side and swerve in when a car comes and take out a bunch of riders at any time and that's hard to accept. I may decide to stick to the club league and focus more on time-trials, but if this wrong-siding issue was addressed, I'd find racing way more enjoyable and would be better able to justify the risks and I have a hunch there are many others who feel the same.

smithslist

wav1 wrote: »

Firstly in relation to the above comments let me say that i would and do always err on the side of safety in any events that i run myself and i think those that know me and my club would generally agree with this.I had nothing to do with this race organisation,but as commented on,in a lot of the posts it is down to a combination of safety measures and equally rider behaviour..

+1, and I agree totally.

Also riders\organizers should use there power to try limit the number of times that a dangerous situation can take place during an event.

wav1 wrote: »

You say you heard that there were no lead cars with the main race. I can state categorically that there were 2 lead cars,one of which is the new Leinster Safety car which has been put in place,to aid[free of charge] safety at races and other cycling events.

This is what I heard at the end of the event yesterday, and thank you for the clarification. I am only going by from what I heard, and it is good to have forum's\discussions like these to eliminate and clarify points.

That's great to have a Leinster safety car, and is a positive approach. I did not know of this. Was this a CI or a Leinster committee(I'm guessing) decision....

wav1 wrote: »

Thats a real dammed if you do and dammed if you dont situation.With such a large entry i suppose the organisers were trying to be fair in giving the extra cat prizes.If they didn't give them you'd have someone on here having a rant sayiny ah they only gave 3 U/P prizes so on that one you cant win..

I understand your point completely, and agree. There is two sides to this argument and both are valid. My point was suggesting that with such a tight finish and last 500m, having so many prizes on offer didnt help the matter. But it is great to have so many prizes and underage events happening on same day as senior events.

wav1

The safety car was a decision and purchase of the Cyling Leinster Committee.
The clubs pay their affiliation fee both to Cycling Ireland and Leinster and this i feel is a way of aiding clubs at their events.Has built in flashing lights in the grill,both front and rear and a siren.This doubles up as a team car when required by Leinster Teams but its main function is as a safety vehicle.It has a presence on the road as it has been kitted out for the job.This vehicle is available for any Leinster event run by a Leinster affialated club free of charge [diesel costs excluded] and can be driven by anyone over 24 with a full Irish licence.Its only a small step of many which need to be taken,but a good one in my opinion.Leinster also have 3 x double magnetic beacons and race radios which are also made available to promoters.

Harrybelafonte

I did Donore awhile back and the pack was nowhere near as big and got smaller and smaller as the race went on. Where did all these lads appear from yesterday?

I'm going to take this opportunity to point out that the races organised by Wav1 and co. have been the safest and most enjoyable this year. Nicely done lads and ladies.

DKO

luapenak wrote: »

Been to 6 or 7 races this year and have never seen Commissaires pull anyone up for crossing the lines.

A rider was eliminated in the Kanturk 2 day for crossing the white line repeatedly.... this was a after a crazy stage where the bunch occupied the entire main Mallow Kilarney road for several kms.... he was just unlucky to be singled out...

bwalsh1983

Was going to go to this race to get some speed back in the legs after a couple of weeks away from racing. Not so sure after reading all this...a notably dangerous race then?

Beasty

Everyone's pretty fit this time of year, and it's a flattish course. Hence large groups tend to stick together. Then you get the smart arses thinking they own the road and decide to head up the group by ignoring the road markings.

The thing that made this race so dangerous last year was the attitude and behaviour of a large number of racers. That was my last A4 race - I'll probably never do another (certainly not on a flattish course like that) based on what happened that day (I decided to "downgrade" to an "Up North" masters race at the start of this season, as they are much safer .....:pac:)

Inquitus

Last year's A4 race was a crash waiting to happen and it didn't disappoint. Big field, narrow roads, ditch to ditch, oncoming traffic.

bwalsh1983

Usually avoid flat races but need some racing in my legs after a break I hadnt planned. Only way is to try and get up the road and avoid it all but coud pove to be difficult if it is fast!

Think this best looks like it should be avoided though, I guess much smaller numbers will be thre for the handicap race the night previous? For the sake of getting some hard riding in it might be the better option.

Cond0r

The A1/A2/A3 race was also a disaster last year. People on the deck and in ditches at every turn on the final lap. The roads are too narrow and busy to accommodate the numbers that turned up last year, coupled with people spreading out over the whole road it was terrifying. Definitely avoiding it this year.

Beasty

To be clear, I never actually felt at personal risk in last year's race, but I witnessed a lot of ridiculous behaviour from many others who did put themselves and potentially others at unneccessary risk. I was never going to be in contention, and rather than take any major risks in attempting to move up the group, I was happy to stay safe towards the back (and on the correct side of the road!).

wav1

To be honest here,a totally freak set of circumctances happened last yr[ie very little else on].This brought about huge fields which the circuit really couldn't handle.Added to this rider behaviour etc brought about a difficult day for all.Cant see any of that happening this yr as theres guys here stated their staying away,plus you have a 3 day stage race,a 2 day stage race,and a couple of other 1 day events happening.To be fair to the promoter/club they go a long way towards keeping the season going at this time of the year with the number of races they run post June.Hope this yr banishes all the bad memories.

pprendeville

What time are these races happening on Sat and Sunday.

Beasty

Thread dedicated to this year's races here

Details/timings in the OP