BBC 2 NOW (9pm) - Das Auto

Victor Meldrew

who the fug wrote: »

Watch a German broadcaster then, BBC program was always going to have that slant.

Paddies giving out about the BBC that they do not pay for is get boring

The demise of the UK brands was down to the uk brand's bad management. The programme highlighted that very accuratly. However, just focusing on the German brands as being what filled the void is missing the point and confusing cause and effect.

It was less about German cars than the programme billing led us to expect. And that was a shame.

Everyone knows what killed the UK brands..

ba_barabus

who the fug wrote: »

Paddies giving out about the BBC that they do not pay for is get boring

It would actually be nice to see a programme made by RTE that looks at Irish manufacturing past and present

colm_mcm

who the fug wrote: »

any idea what what Dunlop employed, they where the factory alongside?

I know there were 850 working there when it closed in 1985, and that in 1972 there were 1800.

r3nu4l

colm_mcm wrote: »

The point is that motor manufacture used to be massive. Even though its not a fraction of what went before, I agree that there's still a lot going on in the UK, but there's a lot going on in most other countries too.

colm_mcm wrote: »

Anyone mourning the death of the British car industry usually has employment in mind.

And as you rightly pointed out earlier, modern assembly methods leave little room for employment. The car industry will never again employ the hordes it used to, even with increased output. As it is the Nissan factory in Sunderland has robots that perform diagnostics on robots, pull them out of service if they have a problem, put another robot in place and then the diagnostic robot services the robot in need of repair. There is probably a mechanic somewhere in the factory playing with his spanner who can be called in as a last resort. :pac:

Matt Simis

keithclancy wrote: »

IMO you can't say Publicly traded companies are owned by any country in Particular anymore.

I.E. Shareholders of Volkswagen A.G. could be anyone ,Chinese, English, Indian, Irish.

I think the point with the German companies is this could be true.. but isnt. Also "owned by" is not really the correct term, "run by nationals from" is really what the angle is about. "Owned by" would be a state/communist type situation, which clearly is not the case with any of them outside those copy and paste Chinese "auto companies".

VAG Capital Ownership

Voting Rights:

Percentage Shareholder name
50.73% Porsche Automobil Holding SE, Stuttgart
20.00% State of Lower Saxony, Hanover
17.00% Qatar Holding
2.37% Porsche GmbH, Salzburg
9.90% Others

Your "anyone, Chinese, English, Indian, Irish" is the 9.9%. Outside of the 17% Qatar stake, the rest are Germans. And before anyone jumps in with "but who is Porsche Holding owned by eh?":

Porsche SE is headquartered in Zuffenhausen, a city district of Stuttgart, Baden-Württemberg and is owned by the Piëch and Porsche families.

Despite being publicly traded, when the "Volkswagen Law" was overturned by the EU, the machinations of the Piech/Porsche families together with Saxony ensured VAG is remained a German German company.

Thats one of the key differentiators between the Germans approach and everyone elses, its very much key to their identity, which is reflected in their cars and aspirations and success/failures. The UK and US may talk of patriotism, but they just as quickly buy and support a foreign import.


PS: I didnt see the program.

nogoodnamesleft

I watched Top Gear as well as Das Auto last night.

Top Gear seemed to ignore the fact that very very little actually gets manufactured in the UK. What actually happens is that cars get assembled in UK factories there is a big big difference.

I work in the engineering industry in the UK and what I can see is the following. There are a small number of British people studying engineering. Many of the students studying engineering in UK universities from my experience are foreigners certainly in the electrical engineering sector at least . The UK always had the reputation for good engineering but what will happen in 15-20 years time when those foreign students travel back to their home countries?

Das Auto also drew attention to the productivity rates comparing the UK to the Germany manufacturing machine. One of my fellow colleagues who knows a few executives within Audi said that they looked at the UK with view to having a facility here. In his words when they looked it the option the productivity rates were comparable to a 3 days week! :eek:

Sam Russell

Das Auto is a bit of tabloid television. It was British Leyland that shut down, and it should have been BMC that was closed, not adding it to Leyland and ensuring the whole lot went bust. Das Auto hardly mentioned Ford, which never closed down but specialised its manufacturing on engines. That is the way large multinationals work. Also, I think VW makes cars in many factories outside Germany, like Hungary, so are those German cars? Seat, Skoda?

I think France make cars (some of them in Belgium) and I thought Italy made cars like Fiat and Ferari, and Alfa Romeo, and possibly Lancia. Oh and don't the Americans make a few cars. But let us not forget the Japanese and Koreans as well. Wait a minute, don't the Chinese make a few as well. Why do the BBC think all cars are madein Germany?

So only the British do not make cars anymore, except for the Mini, and Honda, and Ford, and Nissan, and Morgan, and Rolls Royce and Jaguar, and LandRover. The problem is that they do not own any of the marques anymore (apart from Morgan).

A bit of rubbish from BBC trying to prove a point and failing.

The German education system produces engineers through a very good apprentice system that leads to highly qualified workers. Back in the day, Britain used apprentices as cheap labour, giving them a P45 with their qualification papers. (And that goes back to the 1930s).

It is the German education and pride in their work that helps them suceed, and the reverse is true for Britain, and no amount of Clarksons flag waving will change that. Foreign ownership is bad for workers as the home factories always survive and the further from HQ the more chance of being shut down if adverse conditions prevail.

endplate

Opel or vauxhall didn't get a single mention I wonder why?

Sam Russell

endplate wrote: »

Opel or vauxhall didn't get a single mention I wonder why?

I'm sorry, but I forgot about them. They are a car that is best forgotten in my opinion.

Vauxhall is a marque purchased by GM in 1922, iirc. Never produced much worthy of note - all styling cues were taken from Detroit. I don't know much about Opel, except the Ascona I had from new lost a back wheel one day (it overtook me while I was going to the garage to find out what the noise was at the back). Not a make I would consider.

colm_mcm

Interesting...
http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/blogs/blog-the-problem-with-cars-on-telly/

unkel

Sam Russell wrote: »

It is the German education and pride in their work that helps them suceed, and the reverse is true for Britain

Reminds me of how William Shirer describes German soldiers at the start of WW2 more than 70 years ago from his observations. From memory, the Germans were tanned, well built, strong, lean, tall and fit. The British were the opposite.