RaboPro12 13/14 season thread

phog

awec wrote: »

Lualala at 12? Has he ever played there for Munster? :pac:

I'm not sure he deserved the 13 spot but why should he even be considered for the 12 jersey, just goes to show the thought process for the selections.

sweetthing

One Glasgow player in the team of the season? Man that panel´s gonna look pretty stupid if they win the thing

irishbucsfan

Laulala being in the team of the season makes me question whether certain people have seen him play this year...

Cave is a good shout for it however.

Tox56

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Laulala being in the team of the season makes me question whether certain people have seen him play this year...

Cave is a good shout for it however.

While Laulala is an odd call this hasn't been Cave's best season at all, last few games in particular they've been experimenting with Bowe and Payne at his expense. He's far from finished but there have been signs Ulster are looking beyond him at 13

Buer

Certainly some odd selections but it's still a much more realistic team than some of the previous ones that featured players who barely played.

phog

awec wrote: »

To be honest, the team of the year is total nonsense. I near crashed the car when I heard it on the radio it was that daft.

Jordi Murphy the best 7 in the Rabo? That's bollocks. Lualala the best 13? Nonsense.

Muller the best 5? Muller has been pretty average this year, I am certain there are players who have outplayed him all year.

Who picks this team?

A few dodgy calls there ok, Murphy has had a great year but the best/most consistent 7 in the Rabo he most certainly wasn't.

Tox56

Buer wrote: »

Certainly some odd selections but it's still a much more realistic team than some of the previous ones that featured players who barely played.

Last years team was pretty fair with a second string player like Madigan, a couple of Italians, Matawalu, Williams etc. They would never make a dream team of the very best players in the league but they were actually picked on what they'd shown in the league that season. There were a few guys probably in on reputation alright but I think it was better than this years team

irishbucsfan

Tox56 wrote: »

While Laulala is an odd call this hasn't been Cave's best season at all, last few games in particular they've been experimenting with Bowe and Payne at his expense. He's far from finished but there have been signs Ulster are looking beyond him at 13

It's been his season in comparison to how things went previously. The first half of the season in particular he was excellent.

Ulster will probably end up looking beyond him, but I think it will be at their expense if they do. Hence the Cave to Leinster bandwagon (which I hoped I'd be able to start but failed somewhat, I was hoping the indo would jump on it), he would suit MOC down to the ground.

awec

I really hope we keep Cave (and I think we will).

Mark Anscombe will be gone before Darren Cave IMO.

former legend

So, the final weekend of the season is upon us and we can say with a fair degree of confidence that we'll be looking at semi finals of:
Leinster v Ulster
Glasgow v Munster

But there are still some interesting elements this weekend:

Leinster v Edinburgh; Leinster need two match points to seal top spot, Edinburgh have nothing to play for except pride. A big win and a defeat for Cardiff could see them take seventh spot but European qualification is beyond them.

Munster v Ulster; Ulster will finish fourth in the table regardless of what happens in this or any other match so it is a dead rubber for them. Munster could nick second spot with a win here but they need Glasgow to lose at home to Zebre.

Glasgow v Zebre; Any sort of win will seal second for Glasgow, they need Leinster to lose to have any hope of top spot. Zebre just need to match Treviso's result and they will qualify for the top tier of Europe next season.

Newport v Treviso; the Dragons' only motivation will be to clamber over Connacht into ninth, which they could do with a win. Treviso need at least a losing BP and hope Zebre get nothing in Scotland.

Ospreys v Connacht; Ospreys are guaranteed 5th spot whatever happens, Connacht will just be looking to finish on a high.

Scarlets v Cardiff; Scarlets are guaranteed 6th spot (and Europe), Cardiff are almost certainly going to finish 7th but can't qualify for Europe.

So only two games with absolutely nothing to play for (the last two) but it's not going to an evening of high drama either, it would take a major shock to upset the pre-ordained semi-final line up. Hopefully the battle for the Italian spot in Europe can create some drama.

LeinsterDub

Over all its been a bad season for the league. The Welsh indifference and then out right contempt has been a major drag on both the quality and draw of the league. Only the interpros offered any sort of on pitch competitiveness and in saying that Leinster v Munster this year felt like the were going through the paces.

OldRio

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Over all its been a bad season for the league. The Welsh indifference and then out right contempt has been a major drag on both the quality and draw of the league. Only the interpros offered any sort of on pitch competitiveness and in saying that Leinster v Munster this year felt like the were going through the paces.

Au contraire.
Glasgow have been a revelation and could go on to win it. The Italians are still scrapping for qualification and have created a few upsets.

thelad95

OldRio wrote: »

Au contraire.
Glasgow have been a revelation and could go on to win it. The Italians are still scrapping for qualification and have created a few upsets.

Zebre have had a few big scalps but overall both have been awful. Treviso have gone way down-hill whereas last season they nearly finished above Munster. Glasgow have been a force for 3 seasons now so nothing new there. Would love to see them win it outright though.

LeinsterDub

OldRio wrote: »

Au contraire.
Glasgow have been a revelation and could go on to win it. The Italians are still scrapping for qualification and have created a few upsets.

1 decent non Irish team doesn't make it a good season for the league .

Only because Treviso have imploded this year, Zebre have improved but the only way was up for them.

OldRio

'Only the interpros offered any sort of on pitch competitiveness'

?

irishbucsfan

OldRio wrote: »

'Only the interpros offered any sort of on pitch competitiveness'

?

I suppose it makes sense if you ignore the words "only", "interpros" and "competitiveness"

Buer

Glasgow and the Ospreys were both able to give the provinces trouble with regularity but that doesn't really change the fact that the league is on a big slide at the moment.

A selection of players that will not be in the league next season:

Jonathan Davies
Leigh Halfpenny
Casey Laulala
Luke McLean
Alberto de Marchi
Bradley Davies
Brian O'Driscoll
Leo Cullen
Greg Laidlaw
Ross Rennie
Chris Cusiter
Ruadhri Jackson
Johann Muller
John Afoa
Ian Evans
Richard Hibbard
Ryan Jones
Tom Court
Paddy Wallace
Robert Barbieri

Of course there are some decent players coming in but, as a group, they don't come close to matching those that are leaving. It has been an awful season for the league.

LeinsterDub

OldRio wrote: »

'Only the interpros offered any sort of on pitch competitiveness'

?

Maybe grit or edge would of been a better word. Most of the games it felt like both teams were just going through the paces

thomond2006

Buer wrote: »

Glasgow and the Ospreys were both able to give the provinces trouble with regularity but that doesn't really change the fact that the league is on a big slide at the moment.

A selection of players that will not be in the league next season:

Jonathan Davies
Leigh Halfpenny
Casey Laulala
Luke McLean
Alberto de Marchi
Bradley Davies
Brian O'Driscoll
Leo Cullen
Greg Laidlaw
Ross Rennie
Chris Cusiter
Ruadhri Jackson
Johann Muller
John Afoa
Ian Evans
Richard Hibbard
Ryan Jones
Tom Court
Paddy Wallace
Robert Barbieri

Of course there are some decent players coming in but, as a group, they don't come close to matching those that are leaving. It has been an awful season for the league.

You could make a decent team of the above! Bad year for the league alright. The only teams that might improve their league position could be Connacht and Zebre. The Welsh sides will all be weaker (possible exception of Dragons), Treviso's squad has been raided and Edinburgh are losing Greig Laidlaw.

On another note, Edinburgh allowed Ross Rennie to go on loan to Bristol before Bristol offered him a permanent deal. I know Rennie has had injury worries but allowing him to go on loan is difficult to understand. He's a class player when fit. For the second year they have tried to fill their squad with largely no-name foreigners and it's been a disaster.

Eod100

former legend wrote: »

So, the final weekend of the season is upon us and we can say with a fair degree of confidence that we'll be looking at semi finals of:
Leinster v Ulster
Glasgow v Munster

But there are still some interesting elements this weekend:

Munster v Ulster; Ulster will finish fourth in the table regardless of what happens in this or any other match so it is a dead rubber for them. Munster could nick second spot with a win here but they need Glasgow to lose at home to Zebre.

.

Or for Glasgow to draw with Zebre. Think both are long shots though.

ulster_Beef

Can someone answer this stupid question. Someone in work asked where the rabo final will be?

As Ulster came 1st last year, we nominated RDS. Was that because Ravenhill wasnt at required capacity or due to not being allowed a home final? Im sure its the capacity issue but...

Also, where will the teams nominate for the final etc etc?

Thanks for help

danthefan

ulster_Beef wrote: »

Can someone answer this stupid question. Someone in work asked where the rabo final will be?

As Ulster came 1st last year, we nominated RDS. Was that because Ravenhill wasnt at required capacity or due to not being allowed a home final? Im sure its the capacity issue but...

Also, where will the teams nominate for the final etc etc?

Thanks for help

Ravenhill was either too small or was being renovated at the time.

Teams can nominate their home ground for the final, no problem.

If Ulster finish 4th they can't end up playing at home though. Leinster will be RDS, Munster will be Thomond I would imagine.

CIARAN_BOYLE

ulster_Beef wrote: »

Can someone answer this stupid question. Someone in work asked where the rabo final will be?

As Ulster came 1st last year, we nominated RDS. Was that because Ravenhill wasnt at required capacity or due to not being allowed a home final? Im sure its the capacity issue but...

Also, where will the teams nominate for the final etc etc?

Thanks for help

it was capacity

I would imagine

Leinster RDS
Munster Thomond
Ulster Ravenhill
Glasgow - Some Football stadium

.ak

So it looks like the final weekend will just determine 2 and 3 provided Leinster win. Well, if Leinster can't beat Edinburgh at home there's something wrong really.

Can't see Ulster risking any players, Munster to win their game but I reckon Glasgow will slaughter Zebre and get the full 5.

So semis potentially Ulster away to Leinster and Munster away to Glasgow. Tough set of games for the away teams.

vienne86

.ak wrote: »

So it looks like the final weekend will just determine 2 and 3 provided Leinster win. Well, if Leinster can't beat Edinburgh at home there's something wrong really.

Can't see Ulster risking any players, Munster to win their game but I reckon Glasgow will slaughter Zebre and get the full 5.

So semis potentially Ulster away to Leinster and Munster away to Glasgow. Tough set of games for the away teams.

I think you're right about the lineup. It is important for Leinster that they finish first, so that if they do get to play Glasgow in the final, it will be in the RDS and not in Glasgow.

shuffol

danthefan wrote: »

Ravenhill was either too small or was being renovated at the time.

Teams can nominate their home ground for the final, no problem.

If Ulster finish 4th they can't end up playing at home though. Leinster will be RDS, Munster will be Thomond I would imagine.

If they beat Leinster would the final not be in Ravenhill?

armchaircoach

shuffol wrote: »

If they beat Leinster would the final not be in Ravenhill?

No it would go to the winner of the munster Glasgow match, as both finished higher than ulster in the league table

awec

shuffol wrote: »

If they beat Leinster would the final not be in Ravenhill?

No.

The highest ranked team is always at home. Finishing 4th means you will be away in the semi and the final should you get there.

3rd can get a home final, but only if they beat 2nd place and 4th place beat 1st.

Eod100

.ak wrote: »

So it looks like the final weekend will just determine 2 and 3 provided Leinster win. Well, if Leinster can't beat Edinburgh at home there's something wrong really.

Can't see Ulster risking any players, Munster to win their game but I reckon Glasgow will slaughter Zebre and get the full 5.

So semis potentially Ulster away to Leinster and Munster away to Glasgow. Tough set of games for the away teams.

Can see that happening too but even if Glasgow win without the tbp, they'll still get the home semi.

P_1

This argument comes up every year but I wonder if Leinster will decide to go for the big payday by nominating the Palindrome this season. Last match for BOD and Cullen and all that. I'd imagine that they'd even get 30k plus for Glasgow

thomond2006

Last match ever for BOD will draw people.

Tox56

P_1 wrote: »

This argument comes up every year but I wonder if Leinster will decide to go for the big payday by nominating the Palindrome this season. Last match for BOD and Cullen and all that. I'd imagine that they'd even get 30k plus for Glasgow

Hmm it's an interesting one. Maybe only if it was Munster. Glasgow wouldn't draw enough. Leinster Munster league final in the Aviva for BOD's last ever game... holy crap.

That said, there's the small matter of the semifinal first..

awec

That's it lads, keep talking about the final like you're already there.

Podge_irl

awec wrote: »

That's it lads, keep talking about the final like you're already there.

Ah to be fair though, we are. Nothin to fear from that ulster rabble.

At least not when we engineer another red card. The lads have been practicing falling on their head all week.

.ak

thomond2006 wrote: »

Last match ever for BOD will draw people.

Heard he's joining Clontarf next year, the new best team in Ireland.

phog

P_1 wrote: »

This argument comes up every year but I wonder if Leinster will decide to go for the big payday by nominating the Palindrome this season. Last match for BOD and Cullen and all that. I'd imagine that they'd even get 30k plus for Glasgow

I thought the Rabo get the ticket money for the finals or is it only ERC for the H/cup?

irishbucsfan

I'd be more confident of beating Ulster right now than any other time over the past two years. They're in a bit of disarray at the moment with horrible injury luck and serious discipline problems.

Don't think it'd be an easy win by any stretch, but I think it'd be a win.

phog

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'd be more confident of beating Ulster right now than any other time over the past two years. They're in a bit of disarray at the moment with horrible injury luck and serious discipline problems.

Don't think it'd be an easy win by any stretch, but I think it'd be a win.

TBH, that's a bit harsh really.

Outside of the recent red cards then I think their discipline is okay.

ssaye2

http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/statzone/specsavers_fair_play_league.php

Joint most disciplined team actually in League

Ulsters Red and Leinsters 2 Yellows changed it quite a bit

irishbucsfan

phog wrote: »

TBH, that's a bit harsh really.

Outside of the recent red cards then I think their discipline is okay.

I don't. In general open play they're making rash decisions.

And after Court's red last week there were barely 5 minutes on the clock before the ref had to go back to the TMO for Williams. And when he called over Muller, Muller's attitude was very suspect; he had no interest in what the referee had to say.

irishbucsfan

ssaye2 wrote: »

http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/statzone/specsavers_fair_play_league.php

Joint most disciplined team actually in League

Ulsters Red and Leinsters 2 Yellows changed it quite a bit

That table will tell you very little about a team's discipline though in reality.

It'd be a bit like pointing at the penalty count in a single match and trying to use that to prove which team is more disciplined. Not very realistic.

phog

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I don't. In general open play they're making rash decisions.

And after Court's red last week there were barely 5 minutes on the clock before the ref had to go back to the TMO for Williams. And when he called over Muller, Muller's attitude was very suspect; he had no interest in what the referee had to say.

You could equally argue that the two cards Leinster received while hockeying Treviso shows that they are ill disciplined.

The proof is in the Rabo, Ulster are joint best in the Fairplay League

Team YC RC PC Pts
Ulster 8 1 11
Connacht 11 11
Munster 12 12
Glasgow 12 12
Ospreys 12 12
Treviso 10 1 13
Leinster 13 13
Zebre 14 14
Cardiff 9 1 15
Edinburgh 12 15
Scarlets 14 1 17
Dragons 18 1 21

ssaye2

irishbucsfan wrote: »

That table will tell you very little about a team's discipline though in reality.

It'd be a bit like pointing at the penalty count in a single match and trying to use that to prove which team is more disciplined. Not very realistic.

So what is the point in the stats and tables, do you just ignore the ones you disagree with and not others.

Strange.

irishbucsfan

ssaye2 wrote: »

So what is the point in the stats and tables, do you just ignore the ones you disagree with and not others.

Strange.

I don't see why it's hard to see what I'm saying. Do you think a team in possession concedes as many penalties as a team in defense?

Winters

phog wrote: »

You could equally argue that the two cards Leinster received while hockeying Treviso shows that they are ill disciplined.

The proof is in the Rabo, Ulster are joint best in the Fairplay League

Team YC RC PC Pts
Ulster 8 1 11
Connacht 11 11
Munster 12 12
Glasgow 12 12
Ospreys 12 12
Treviso 10 1 13
Leinster 13 13
Zebre 14 14
Cardiff 9 1 15
Edinburgh 12 15
Scarlets 14 1 17
Dragons 18 1 21

Do the top 7 go through to the European Professional Fairplay Champions Cup?

irishbucsfan

ssaye2 wrote: »

And your problems usually.

You change the goal posts when you want and post relentlessly until everyone just bores of you.

That's very good. If you want to actually discuss Ulster's discipline let me know.

phog

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I don't see why it's hard to see what I'm saying. Do you think a team in possession concedes as many penalties as a team in defense?

But over the course of a league you'd imagine that an ill disciplined team would have worse record in a Fairplay League than their competitors.

irishbucsfan

phog wrote: »

But over the course of a league you'd imagine that an ill disciplined team would have worse record in a Fairplay League than their competitors.

Yeah absolutely, I don't think it's been a problem throughout the season though.

And you also need to look at where the penalties are being conceded.

As a random example, a team might have a very aggressive breakdown game when they're in the opposition's half, maybe they have the best defensive lineout in the league to mitigate that.

Another team might have a pack who are incapable of adapting to referees and keep getting pinged in good attacking areas on their own ball.

Those two teams might have the same penalty count on a table like that. Only one of them might really need to address it.

phog

Comparing Leinster and Ulster H/Cup stats from Scrum.com over the course of their 7 games.

Leinster conceded 56 penalities while Ulster conceded 50 penalties.

phog

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah absolutely, I don't think it's been a problem throughout the season though.

And you also need to look at where the penalties are being conceded.

As a random example, a team might have a very aggressive breakdown game when they're in the opposition's half, maybe they have the best defensive lineout in the league to mitigate that.

Another team might have a pack who are incapable of adapting to referees and keep getting pinged in good attacking areas on their own ball.

Those two teams might have the same penalty count on a table like that. Only one of them might really need to address it.

It seems to me you only want to count penalites conceded that will assist your argument.