The Flash [** Spoilers ** ==> US pace]

spektorfive

I guess it could be twins, but that does feel a bit soap opera stuff. But it's a crazy show.

Mitch Connor

what gets me is he says this complicates matters.... why,is the interesting questing.

Zoom and JG Flash have fought on Earth 2 and Zoom and JG Flash have faced off on Earth 1 too. So why does him having Jay complicate matters? I don't think he is dead... so what is the issue. He already knew about Jay Garrick in both locations.

crazyderk

At the end of that episode I was like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqyixwqiCag

then i read this

And the show is on hiatus til March 22nd..

and then I was like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s

Diddy Kong

Jay said in an earlier episode that he lost he speed to experiments on trying to increase his speed. What if the experiment was cloning? The guy in the mask being the original Jay and the "dead" Jay being one that Zoom was able to steal the speed from? And Zoom being a clone that wants the speed for himself?

Axwell

Mitch Connor wrote: »

what gets me is he says this complicates matters.... why,is the interesting questing.

You are assuming that he is referring to Jay, he could equally be referring to the fact the breaches are all closed.

Diddy Kong

Diddy Kong wrote: »

Jay said in an earlier episode that he lost he speed to experiments on trying to increase his speed. What if the experiment was cloning? The guy in the mask being the original Jay and the "dead" Jay being one that Zoom was able to steal the speed from? And Zoom being a clone that wants the speed for himself?

I was thinking along the lines of clones or twins. Earlier, it's a great ending considering the break coming

PirateShampoo

Okay so here we go

If think we are dealing with Twins, Earth 1 twins and Earth 2 twins.

Neither of the Twins knows about his sibling except for Zoom knowing about Jay.

Earth 2 : Zoom (Zolomon Hunter) and Jay which got chest stabbed.

Earth 1 : Zolomon Hunter (Guy in Park) and Masked man in tank, who I think Zoom snatched before revealing himself to Barry.

Mitch Connor

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Okay so here we go

If think we are dealing with Twins, Earth 1 twins and Earth 2 twins.

Neither of the Twins knows about his sibling except for Zoom knowing about Jay.

Earth 2 : Zoom (Zolomon Hunter) and Jay which got chest stabbed.

Earth 1 : Zolomon Hunter (Guy in Park) and Masked man in tank, who I think Zoom snatched before revealing himself to Barry.

Based on the last two episodes, I think Zoom is Jay Garrick - or at least that is what the man in the mask was trying to say - he was naming their captor.

squonk

Whatever about the Jay stuff, the rest of this week's episode was crap. I laughed at the first appearance of King Shark. It looked so dman corny. Maybe it was the mood I wa in but I thught the whole episode was mostly pants. Even the piece with Caitlin pretending to be Killer Frost when talking to Cisqo. How did she know just exactly what KF used to say. I don't think Cisco told her. Also, the Wally West character looks so shoehorned in there at this point. It's obvious they want him as a second Speedster but if they want the anti Barry then they're making a fairly cack handed effort at putting him together. He just sems arbitrarily pissed with Barry. It just comes across as being very contrived.

Mitch Connor

squonk wrote: »

Whatever about the Jay stuff, the rest of this week's episode was crap. I laughed at the first appearance of King Shark. It looked so dman corny. Maybe it was the mood I wa in but I thught the whole episode was mostly pants. Even the piece with Caitlin pretending to be Killer Frost when talking to Cisqo. How did she know just exactly what KF used to say. I don't think Cisco told her. Also, the Wally West character looks so shoehorned in there at this point. It's obvious they want him as a second Speedster but if they want the anti Barry then they're making a fairly cack handed effort at putting him together. He just sems arbitrarily pissed with Barry. It just comes across as being very contrived.

What I don't get with Barry/Wally is that it is played as Wally being annoyed at Iris/Joe seeing him as perfect - when Barry simply being Joe's son should be enough to annoy Wally.

He was annoyed with Joe for never finding out he had a son - he should be utterly pissed, on that basis, that Joe got a replacement son in Barry.

As it is, Barry becoming more at ease and more human around Wally can solve the issue - where as if it was played as a hatred of Barry for taking the life he should have had, then it can play into a much bigger story.

I also think turning Wally into a speedster in Flash would be a mistake - having the two of them would be a mess. I think it would be better if the man in the mask turned out to be Earth 2 Wally - as Barry has already shown he can't separate the people on the two earths.

And yes - the final 2 mins saved the episode from being crap filler. The tone of the episode was good, but it didn't translate to what the episode was about or what we saw. Barry wrestling with the deaths of Eddie and Jay, the metahuman attacks on Central City that are 'his fault', the damnation of Earth 2 in leaving them to Zoom etc - some great emotional beats that were wasted or lost in some crap about a shark.

Bounty Hunter

Wait so... I was right! Twins!


How will they re-open the breach.... Science thats how!

I can see it now:

Harry: If we reverse engineer the quantum field created by the quark matter energy and combine it with the speed force you can create we just might be able to open one breach for a short while (or some similar mumbo jumbo)

Barry: do it!

Mitch Connor

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

Wait so... I was right! Twins!


How will they re-open the breach.... Science thats how!

I can see it now:

Harry: If we reverse engineer the quantum field created by the quark matter energy and combine it with the speed force you can create we just might be able to open one breach for a short while (or some similar mumbo jumbo)

Barry: do it!

they created the breach in the first place (granted, in a huge disaster and it was an accident) so they should be able to do so again, and hopefully ni a more controlled manner - but it will probably be similar to what you have said.

Penn

I actually really enjoyed the episode. In an episode featuring a giant man-shark, the focus was still on the repercussions of Barry's trip to Earth 2 and all the damage that's been caused on both Earths since late in Season 1. Yeah the Barry/Wally stuff was fairly weak but I disagree that it's just because Wally is annoyed how Joe & Iris treat Barry as being perfect. The underlying resentment is stemming from both of them viewing each other as an outsider.

King Shark looked as good as he could considering the timeframe and budget the show has, though how big he actually is seemed to keep changing which was off-putting.

After the last few episodes, they needed to slow it down a bit in order to ramp things back up for the last run of episodes, so I don't mind that this was basically a bit of filler. The end reveal was great and should make things interesting for the rest of the season.

Plus Diggle got to show a bit of actual personality in a Flash episode, considering his previous appearances were just him standing beside Oliver saying "He's fast". As someone who hadn't seen Arrow until very recently, I never understood what his role was in Arrow based on his Flash appearances. It was nice to see someone other than Joe give Barry a pep-talk.

Penn

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

Wait so... I was right! Twins!

I'd say we still don't know yet. We know Jay Garrick is from Earth 2. The Hunter Zolomon he found from Earth 1 might still be Zoom making them dopplegangers rather than twins, provided that as Zoom he has found a way to travel between Earth prior to the breaches (which seems possible considering Flash will have to do the same to get back to Earth 2). We still don't know who the guy in the mask is.

Bounty Hunter

Yeah tbh it's just as likely the guy in the mask was simply saying that Zoom is Jay Garrick cos he doesn't know this other Zolomon character and would assume it was Garrick he recognized.

That said I'd feel weird if the reveal was that Zoom had just been chilling in the park feeding the ducks half the time

Mitch Connor

Maybe Zoom is a future version of Earth 2 Jay - which might be why Zoom didn't previously kill Earth 2 Flash, but would have done so to Barry in the end. Could also be why injured/dying Jay Garrick is a complication - he can't allow hi to die as it would (i think) kill him too.

_Kaiser_

squonk wrote: »

Whatever about the Jay stuff, the rest of this week's episode was crap. I laughed at the first appearance of King Shark. It looked so dman corny. Maybe it was the mood I wa in but I thught the whole episode was mostly pants. Even the piece with Caitlin pretending to be Killer Frost when talking to Cisqo. How did she know just exactly what KF used to say. I don't think Cisco told her. Also, the Wally West character looks so shoehorned in there at this point. It's obvious they want him as a second Speedster but if they want the anti Barry then they're making a fairly cack handed effort at putting him together. He just sems arbitrarily pissed with Barry. It just comes across as being very contrived.

Wasn't there a line that Barry had told Caitlyn about Killer Frost in the end?

Wally's motivation seems to be that he's jealous of Barry's "favoured son" status in the family.. which is a bit rich considering he wanted nothing to do with Joe or Iris a few weeks ago!

Overall it was an OK episode.. I'm assuming I missed something in an Arrow episode around how King Shark ended up in that tank at the start? The Zoom reveal/final few seconds was excellent though (although I would have preferred it to be Tony Todd tbh)

Penn

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Wally's motivation seems to be that he's jealous of Barry's "favoured son" status in the family.. which is a bit rich considering he wanted nothing to do with Joe or Iris a few weeks ago!

I think it's basically just that Wally can accept Joe and Iris and wants to get to know them because they're family, but Barry isn't, yet he's being forced into accepting Barry as part of the family even though they have no connection whatsoever. I don't think it's that Barry is the favourite son, it's that Wally doesn't see him as being a son at all.

Also Starring LeVar Burton

Really enjoying this season so far - just been catching up over the past few weeks.
Haven't warmed to Wally West yet though - at the moment he feels to The Flash what Thea Queen was to the first 2.5 seasons of Arrow, an annoying teenager who won't add anything until they become part of the team...

I dont want him becoming part of the team though. Velocity 9, suit or whatever other McGuffin.

Flash comics always had too many speedsters was hoping that the live action would follow the animated

Also Starring LeVar Burton

Deleted User wrote: »

I dont want him becoming part of the team though. Velocity 9, suit or whatever other McGuffin.

Flash comics always had too many speedsters was hoping that the live action would follow the animated

If he doesn't become part of the team however, we've got a main character floating about with nothing to do. Would've been better if they made Patty a permanent fixture and didn't bother with Wally this early on.

Nervous Wreck

Also Starring LeVar Burton wrote: »

If he doesn't become part of the team however, we've got a main character floating about with nothing to do. Would've been better if they made Patty a permanent fixture and didn't bother with Wally this early on.

I'd imagine he'll either not get his powers or he'll get them and leave after a few episodes.

Here we are again talking about Wally, when people just watching the show would have no idea.
Honestly they are right, it's not very fair.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=98862433#post98862433
This is in the "Super Hero" forum, which (I think) is what its purpose was, cross talk across various media

martingriff

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Twins, which would explain how we have 4 of them.

First time in the show ive felt that its all a bit silly.

There is another theory that when Jay took Velocity 6 some kind of accident happened and he was spliced apart giving 2 Jay and that is why the cells are degenerating. So they either need to be put back together or use the speed force to keep it together as Velocity 9 had done to non Zoom Jay.

The man in the iron mask is Jay from earth 2 and when non Zoom Jay showed Caitlin his doppelganger it is actually Zoom.

duridian

martingriff wrote: »

There is another theory that when Jay took Velocity 6 some kind of accident happened and he was spliced apart giving 2 Jay and that is why the cells are degenerating. So they either need to be put back together or use the speed force to keep it together as Velocity 9 had done to non Zoom Jay.

The man in the iron mask is Jay from earth 2 and when non Zoom Jay showed Caitlin his doppelganger it is actually Zoom.

I like this idea about Jay and Zoom being split from the one being. And in this universe we already have metas merging, like Firestorm or Deathstorm, so why not have metas splitting?

It also gives a plausible reason why Zoom is so obsessed with stealing the speed from other speedsters. i.e., he needs it to survive the cellular degeneration, it's a matter of his life and death for him, and he just picked the most dickish way possible to solve his problem.

CastorTroy

Was wondering if Cisco will try and improve his powers like Reverb told him, but maybe he's scared he'll turn evil like Reverb.

duridian

CastorTroy wrote: »

Was wondering if Cisco will try and improve his powers like Reverb told him, but maybe he's scared he'll turn evil like Reverb.

Reckon he almost certainly will, but I think it will happen much closer to the end of the third trimester/season finale confrontation with Zoom, when Team Flash are gonna need every ounce of leverage they can get.

Lithium93_

The reveal from this week screams of deja vú from Season 1 :pac:

Also how ironic it was Earth 2 Harry telling them not to trust Jay.

Lithium93_

The CW have renewed The Flash for a 3rd season.

5star02707

great episode! another speedster and looks like another one in the making.
What's up with Cisco's vibe though? Anything he touches affiliated with Jay leads to zoom :P