The Flash [** Spoilers ** ==> US pace]

Mr.Prodston

Barry Allen meets Maria Sharapova :pac:

spektorfive

I'm glad the toilets in the nightclub looked so carp. I hate on these shows where everything perfect. What the hell was Iris wearing in work? I won't get anything done in work if she was wearing that. Glad they mention the whole marriage thing between Barry & Iris. The voice recording from Wells seem odd. Why would the watch record that? and replay it? The murder of Turtle always bothered me. Does team Flash know? Did no one look into Turtle death?

Where the hell was zoom on earth 2? It came across like some wired S&M fetish place esp with him dressed in all black leather.

Penn

spektorfive wrote: »

I'm glad the toilets in the nightclub looked so carp. I hate on these shows where everything perfect. What the hell was Iris wearing in work? I won't get anything done in work if she was wearing that. Glad they mention the whole marriage thing between Barry & Iris. The voice recording from Wells seem odd. Why would the watch record that? and replay it? The murder of Turtle always bothered me. Does team Flash know? Did no one look into Turtle death?

Where the hell was zoom on earth 2? It came across like some wired S&M fetish place esp with him dressed in all black leather.

I think it showed in a previous episode (possibly even the one where he killed Turtle) that Wells was keeping a journal of sorts by recording himself with the watch.

As for Zoom, Cisco's vibes don't necessarily show the future or past etc, more so just information. So when he saw Zoom, he wasn't looking at Zoom in a certain place, but rather that was just a visual representation of vibing that Jay was Zoom.

Enjoyed that episode. Nothing overly dramatic or special, but it's great they know who Zoom is now, and sets up the last few episodes well.

bluesfan

Enjoyed that episode except for the last scene where it all went a bit Big Bang Theory.

googled eyes

bluesfan wrote: »

Enjoyed that episode except for the last scene where it all went a bit Big Bang Theory.

Ha, I just was going to post this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpeF067Hx2Y

larchielads

Ok now I'm confused. Is Jay zoom? If so then who did zoom kill putting his hand through the portal thingy when he chased barry back from earth 2?
Is Jay garrick not supposed to be earth 2's flash??

My theory is that Jay and hunter zolomon are twins on both earth's and in fact it's earth 2's hunter zolomon that is zoom and that's why cisco vibes zoom/zolomon when he touches jays head gear cos twins are supposed to be connected in some way.

But someone please answer my questions cos I'm confused here

CastorTroy

Possibilities suggested include Hunter, other alternate Jays and time travel. I'm sure it'll all make perfect sense like the comics they're based on always do.

Penn

larchielads wrote: »

But someone please answer my questions cos I'm confused here

The answer is:

We don't know yet

mightyreds

larchielads wrote: »

Ok now I'm confused. Is Jay zoom? If so then who did zoom kill putting his hand through the portal thingy when he chased barry back from earth 2?
Is Jay garrick not supposed to be earth 2's flash??

My theory is that Jay and hunter zolomon are twins on both earth's and in fact it's earth 2's hunter zolomon that is zoom and that's why cisco vibes zoom/zolomon when he touches jays head gear cos twins are supposed to be connected in some way.

But someone please answer my questions cos I'm confused here

ha ha i think you have a pretty good grasp on whats happening in your theory its a possibility

larchielads

Why thank you:P

Mitch Connor

I reckon Zoom Jay is a future version of Earth 2 Jay - one who got addicted to Velocity and became insane like Katie did.

larchielads

I also reckon that the guy in the mask is Eddie thawne or some version of him from some earth except earth 1 anyway cos he's kaput

connemara man

Will I need to watch flash before I watch Supergirl next week to get the sequence right?

Axwell

larchielads wrote: »

I also reckon that the guy in the mask is Eddie thawne or some version of him from some earth except earth 1 anyway cos he's kaput

Not sure both those theories add up when you combine them. You said you think there are 2 sets of twins - therefore 4 of the same looking guy.

We would have seen 3 of them..there's a 4th one somewhere in your theory..but instead you are going with Eddie Thawne in the mask?



In my opinion the guy in the mask has to be Earth 2's Jay Garrick...

When he is tapping the glass trying to spell out his name he gets as far as JAY and Barry says "JAY GARRICK"? The man in the mask is shocked near almost excited that Barry recognises the name and he doesn't have to tap out the rest of it...this is an obvious sign that he is Jay Garrick and hes probably wondering how this guy (Barry) knows his full name..only for Barry to then say that Jay is fine he is over on Earth 1..the man in the mask visibly gets upset which suggests he is frustrated that Barry didn't understand he was tapping that he is Jay Garrick. He also is wearing the mask because Zoom doesn't want anyone to recognise its Jay Garrick that's captured, especially with Wells daughter there the whole time beside him.

larchielads

That too makes sense so I could be brought round to your theory. But I thought and please correct me if I'm wrong but aren't Jay and hunter zolomon twins on both earths?

Garrick and zolomon twins earth 2 ie my theory wit zolomon bein zoom and garrick bein earth 2 flash.

Zolomon earth 1 which we see and was supposedly adopted or whatever but we don't see garrick earth 1.

Axwell

larchielads wrote: »

That too makes sense so I could be brought round to your theory. But I thought and please correct me if I'm wrong but aren't Jay and hunter zolomon twins on both earths?

Garrick and zolomon twins earth 2 ie my theory wit zolomon bein zoom and garrick bein earth 2 flash.

Zolomon earth 1 which we see and was supposedly adopted or whatever but we don't see garrick earth 1.

No you would assume they are twins on both earths, my point is we would have 4 people and you haven't identified where Jay Garrick from Earth 1 is and then went to Eddie being the man in the mask. The fact the show leads us to believe there are twins would make it unlikely they would just ignore a Jay Garrick from Earth 1 or not have him involved at all?

Assuming they are twins on both earths...there are 4 of them in total..1 of each..a hunter zolomon and a jay.

Earth 2 jay garrick..would be the one who died.
Earth 2 hunter zolomon..would be zoom

Earth 1 hunter zolomon...would be the guy in the park
Earth 1 jay Garrick...you havent mentioned where he fits in and we don't see one.

So where does he fit in to your theory or is he just an unknown?

Lets also not forget the whole piece about Hunter Zolomon existing comes from "Earth 2 Jay Garrick" who has pretty much lied the whole time he has been on the show.

Mitch Connor

Axwell wrote: »

Lets also not forget the whole piece about Hunter Zolomon existing comes from "Earth 2 Jay Garrick" who has pretty much lied the whole time he has been on the show.

So is this working on the assumption that Earth 2 Jay Garrick is:

1. a bad guy
2. aware of his twin on Earth 2
3. aware there could/should be a twin of Hunter on earth 1.
4. lied (by omission) on the existence of this twin, but just showed Hunter?

The show is pushing Jay Garrick as the bad guy now, but I don't think it is right - i think team flash are making an incorrect assumption on the vibe and the connections.

Sure we have seen a speedster in two places at once but reverse flash said that was a after image of something - we have actually seen team flash interact with Zoom on Earth 2 at the same time as Jay Garrick is interacting with people on Earth 1.

I'm not sold on 'our' Jay being a bad guy, not yet - or (if my time travel theory is right: he hasn't yet become the bad guy).

larchielads

Maybe earth 1 Jay garrick is the guy in the mask maybe that's where he fits in?? I have no idea man I wanna go look stuff up to give me some clues but at the same time I really don't wanna spoil the surprise.
As for theories I nearly love that they have more questions than answers as I enjoy reading others as it makes you think.
At the end I don't care who's right or wrong .......but I really hope I am

Bounty Hunter

This is what I said over a month ago (before the Jay reveal) and I'm sticking to it even though I expect there to be some twist most likely including Velocity or time travel.

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

You gotta think in someway that the Zoloman reveal from earlier in the season will play into it in someway though. For instance masked man = Earth 1 Jay and Zoom = Earth 2 Hunter Zoloman.

Jay and Hunter are twins who were separated at birth and Zoom (E2 Zoloman) captured what he thought was his E1 doppelgänger (but was actually E1 Jay) so as to cover up his identity when the link between the two worlds opened up. He placed him like Barry in a speedster containing cell incase he like E2 Jay & Zoom was also a speedster.

A bit out there but I think it all fits

Bandana boy

I think velocity splits the person in two , a good and bad person , both start to degenerate until they are rejoined together unless they have access to the speed force which slows it down.

Bounty Hunter

Bandana boy wrote: »

I think velocity splits the person in two , a good and bad person , both start to degenerate until they are rejoined together unless they have access to the speed force which slows it down.

I was thinking that might have happened in the latest episode to the female speedster when she kept taking it and then we the audience would be closer to knowing what the deal with Jay was but (seemingly) it didn't. That said this is a new version of Velocity that she was taking so maybe it'd have different consequences or maybe she time traveled or something else that we don't know yet

Bandana boy

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

I was thinking that might have happened in the latest episode to the female speedster when she kept taking it and then we the audience would be closer to knowing what the deal with Jay was but (seemingly) it didn't. That said this is a new version of Velocity that she was taking so maybe it'd have different consequences or maybe she time traveled or something else that we don't know yet

Her personality did fracture and she was talking to her self in the mirror , maybe not having access to the speed force she died when split where as with Jay he became the two personalties.

Bounty Hunter

Bandana boy wrote: »

Her personality did fracture and she was talking to her self in the mirror , maybe not having access to the speed force she died when split where as with Jay he became the two personalties.

Yeah to be honest I am leaning more so away from the twin thing and onto the idea of Velocity splitting them apart but that it didn't happen to her (at least physically) as it wasn't the same velocity as Kaitlyn had made an altered formula.

The only thing with that theory is that the man in the mask is once again an unknown and that Hunter Zolomon would just be a red herring... but both would not surprise me as they would of course then be plot devices for future storylines.

ixoy

Anyone else laugh when Caitlyn was told "How very Law & Order" of you whilst Joe (who did 10 years on the show) stood behind her?

larchielads

Straight away!! One of the best lines in the show so far

Axwell

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So is this working on the assumption that Earth 2 Jay Garrick is:

1. a bad guy
2. aware of his twin on Earth 2
3. aware there could/should be a twin of Hunter on earth 1.
4. lied (by omission) on the existence of this twin, but just showed Hunter?

I edited my post above as I had a typo - too many Jays and I spend too long going through all the options in my head! The guy in the mask I meant is Earth 1 Jay..

I have been torn between two theories myself - the whole twin thing is one but its pretty convoluted to a point for it to all fit into place. I just dont see it being Eddie Thawn in the mask so was trying to see where LarchieLad was going with that but I dont think Eddie fits.

The other is the whole Zoom/Jay being one in the same person as a result of Velocity 6. There's also 2 others but those are ones I have less faith in.

Twin theory:
For the twin thing to work there needs to be 4 people. 2 Jays and 2 Hunters.

Issue number one is simple - the fact they are supposed to be twins at all. For this to work out they would have to have been separated at birth. They would need to explain this in the show at some stage but its the only way its feasible. Identical twins separated at birth..one grows as Jay Garrick, the other as Hunter Zolomon..on both E1 and E2

As a side note - identical twins have the same DNA, so if the twins on E2 had the ability to become meta humans that fits with Jay and Zoom being speedsters.

The twins on E1 wouldnt be speedsters..as Hunter Zolomon on the park bench was just a normal guy, ergo Jay Garrick on E1 is just a normal guy.

So the breakdown of them would be.

Earth 2 jay garrick..would be the one who died. (speedster)
Earth 2 hunter zolomon..would be zoom (speedster)

Earth 1 hunter zolomon...would be the guy in the park (normal)
Earth 1 jay Garrick...the guy in the mask (normal)

To answer your points above.

1. He's not really a bad guy, I think he has gone down a bad path taking the V6. He has lied in parts saying Zoom stole his power, when it was down to drug abuse of V6. The Hunter Zolomon piece I think hes not actually lying, he just doesn't know the full details..see point 2.

2. Not really - it depends. This is where the theory doesn't hold up that great. They would need to be twins who got separated at birth so that they arent aware of each others existence. E2 Jay therefore wouldn't know Zoom (E2 Hunter Zolomon) is his twin because he has never seen his face. Zoom however would know who Jay is after the particle accelerator because he hears of this Crimson Comet/Flash and see's this guy looks exactly like him. How this translates then on Earth 1 is that E2 Jay looks for himself and finds this Hunter Zolomon guy and he tells Caitlin about the adoption etc and assumes there is no E1 Jay Garrick. The reality is Zoom came to E1 and looked for himself and Jay..he finds himself and leaves him there, but he takes E1 jay and that's who is locked up in the box. What doesnt stand up here is Caitlin should have found there was a Jay Garrick on E1, she was looking up records etc..not just looking for him in the sense of a location for him right now. So unless theres some variation on his name theres no reason she shouldnt have found him.

3.As above he wouldn't be aware of the existence of any twin.

4. Again he didn't lie, he just wasn't aware of the whole story.

So when Barry is in E2 and the guy taps on the box saying JAY and Barry says Jay Garrick? The man in the mask is like great this guy somehow knows im Jay Garrick, then Barry says no its cool Jay is on Earth 1 and hes fine. The man in the mask is frustrated because he is Jay form E1 and Barry hasnt figured out whats going on yet.

Other notes.

The man in the mask is there before Jesse as she said he was there when she was put in her call. She has never seen his face, if she did then she would recognise him and think he is Jay Garrick from E2 so this is why Zoom has the mask on him, its not to stop him phasing out of the box, he isnt a speedster.

For him to be there before Jesse suggests Zoom found him right after the breach opened. He went looking for other speedsters and found E1 Hunter and Jay and neither has speed so he cant take their powers and make himself faster. He then he learns of Barry and how fast he is and he wants his speed. At that stage he kidnaps Jesse and tells Wells to get him the speed from The Flash (Barry) he also sends other meta humans over after Barry.

I'm of the exact same thinking as above

Patty O Furniture

Can someone tell me is this US/UK pace, as it doesnt state that, top of page & how many eps are left?

Mitch Connor

Patty O Furniture wrote: »

Can someone tell me is this US/UK pace, as it doesnt state that, top of page & how many eps are left?

The discussion in here is US paced, perhaps unfairly. Don't know how many episodes are left. I would guess at 7 if the season has the same amount of episodes as last season.

Not at all unfairly but thread title should reflect same