The Flash [** Spoilers ** ==> US pace]

larchielads

Lads Clark Kent only wears glasses and no one knows he's superman and works with Lois lane the best reporter ever and she couldn't see thru that disguise so yeah lads long hair and a beard oh and an alias must be almost the best disguise ever in the dc universe so we should "excuse really smart scientists " for not copping on to it.

larchielads

larchielads wrote: »

Lads Clark Kent only wears glasses and no one knows he's superman and works with Lois lane the best reporter ever and she couldn't see thru that disguise so yeah lads long hair and a beard oh and an alias must be almost the best disguise ever in the dc universe so we should "excuse really smart scientists " for not copping on to it.

Haha was thinking that. Olly wears the smallest of masks FFS

spektorfive

I don't get at which point did he get a different version of himself to be Jay? Was Jay a past version of himself or a future version of himself?

larchielads

Think he said he went back in time or another world and found a version of himself and told him his plan

Penn

Yeah he said it was a past version of himself.

Not sure how that worked considering what happened to Thawne but wibbly wobbly timey wimey and all that.

spektorfive

Now that zoom full story been told I think it's total let down. It the same plot as last year. Unless the man in the iron mask turns out to be cool and Barry has some sort plan and didn't just give Zoom his speed force season 2 going to fall flat.

mightyreds

Earth 1 jay was past hunter zoloman.
Earth 2 zoom/flash was earth 2 hunter zoloman.

Earth 1 hunter zoloman is earth 1hunter zoloman.

Man in mask unknown.

Is this where we are now

Mitch Connor

When zoom brought Jay back to his lair, he said something like: "well, this complicates matters".

If it was his plan to kill the time remnant, how would executing his plan complicate anything.

Sudden Valley

The storyline this season has become way too messy. The idea that past Hunter Z would become a hero and then willingly sacrifice himself for his future self makes no sense- that takes insanity to a whole level. Unless maybe Jay didn't realise he was going to be killed and Zoom is just making it up?

Bounty Hunter

He talks about the whole Hunter Zolomon Zoom thing here. Some speculation on who the man in the Iron Mask is (his guess would be the same as my own) but not spoilers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcQ6rbPxTNw

The remnant thing does p!ss me off too as surely if it was just a past version of himself killing him would also erase Zoom ands even having him do all this "Jay Garrick" stuff would change his future let alone simply him dying doing that in a permanent fashion. They need to define the difference between a remnant and themselves from the past unless Zoom was just bulsh!tting about the remnant storyline.

Mal-Adjusted

The "time remnant" explanation is very wishy-washy and doesn't really stand up to the mildest scrutiny with what we know about the show's depiction of time travel.

Regarding the man in the iron mask, i think it's

the real Jay garrick.
I reckon that Zoom needs speed force, so he captured the Garrick Flash and stole his speed. He's desperate for more speed so he keeps Jay alive in the hope that he can generate more. He assumed Garricks identity to infiltrate team Flash on Earth 1 with the whole remnant thing. The reason i think this is because he was trying to communicate his name across and seemed to lose his $h!t when Barry told him that Jay was on earth one. If Zoom had just made that name up on the fly, the man wouldn't have that reaction.

Obviously all that is just speculation and could easily be wrong...I'm just annoyed my favorite Flash was turned into a villain

My only other issue with the episode is why Barry decided to go and confront Zoom? yeah, he's terrorizing Earth-2 but he has been for a while. Also, he's dying and has no access to speed force. given a bit of time, it's a problem that will solve itself. It doesn't make great television sure, but it's the logical thing to do.

Bounty Hunter

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

Obviously all that is just speculation and could easily be wrong...I'm just annoyed my favorite Flash was turned into a villain

Assuming you mean Jay Garrick, he didn't unless I am missing something as the "Jay Garrick" we met was never Jay Garrick but Hunter Zolomen (or a version of him) all along. Hunter Zolomen

always becomes Zoom in the comics

and we could still meet an actual "Jay Garrick" down the line, maybe in the mask for example, but they would use a different actor I guess so as to emphasize that they are different people and the real Jay is a good guy.



The above spoiler is a comic book reference, don't think it actually spoils anything from the shows, def not at this stage actually but people seem to want to avoid comic talk even though I haven't read them but have heard this through TV show related talk

Ben Gadot

Jay will be introduced at some point and be Barry's first true speedster mentor , with no shenanigans involved.

spektorfive

Ben Gadot wrote: »

Jay will be introduced at some point and be Barry's first true speedster mentor , with no shenanigans involved.

Jesus your right. Season 3 will be the "real" Jay training him and it be just likes Wells being part of the show now. FFS his been the Flash for two years now going on three, does he really need another Mentor? Surely he can just have team flash behind him and it be enough.

Lithium93_

Do we really need another speedster "mentor" in Season 3, in short no, no we don't.

Mitch Connor

Could it be that Barry is done? Season finishes with him being done as The Flash - Wally taking over and Jay being is mentor

Lithium93_

Well thanks to Arrows 4th season premier, we know Barry does get his

speed

back.. The question is how?

spektorfive

I now think Jay or some version of him will be the man in the iron mask but still played by the same actor. He will become the new mentor for season 3.
All these american shows have hard time killing of/getting rid of bad guys and end up keeping them around. Look at Wells in this show, John Barrowman on Arrow, sylar on heroes, Lionel Luthor on smallville (they also brought him back by using a Earth 2 version of him) there just ones I can think of.

martingriff

One of the producers/writers of the show went on twitter to say that Hunter Zolman is not Jay but a name he took to get close to Barry. Now this means 1 of 2 thing if true. 1) Hunter just picked the name at random and is a coincidence. If so the Arrowverse shows will be heading for another meltdown after

Laurel

got killed

2) Hunter know Jay Garrick. He is also a speedster and Hunter captured him and he the Man in the Iron Mask( that or its Leanardo DiCaprio!!!!!!!!) and the reason why he has to have him beside that barrier to stop him getting away as he has some speed left.

I hope it is the second 1 and ill be batting 50% being I was wrong with Zoom and Jay been the same person but got split due to Velocity 6.

In relation to Zooms story who says it is true it could all be a fabrication from him to make them think he was in control all along.

I wonder will Barry get his speed back the same way as the Reverse Flash as in he need to rest up. As in if you are part of the speed force and feed of it you will eventually get your speed back. The reason why the man in the iron mask (a speedster Jay) is been locked up.

crazyderk

Is the whole time remnant thing a bit like when Star Trek does a time travel bit.

For example reverse flash was erased from history during season 1 however at some point a previous version of the reverse flash was travelling through time when this happened there fore because he was in a time rift he was not affected by the events that took place.

Same for season 2 zoom travels back in time and picks out a remnant who was travelling in time and uses him........you know what? My head hurts

Mal-Adjusted

I worry when they take their time travel rules from the first Futurama film...

ixoy

Didn't see this posted elsewhere.. There's a web series that's just begun - Chronicles of Cisco:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ACubCvAyWA

Only two minutes long for the first part and is pretty up-to-date with the main Flash storyline. Could be a bit of good fun and the advertising is at least integrated in well enough.

tvnutz

Was I the only one who thought this was one of the stupidest episodes ever?He becomes faster than zoom, proves it by beating him and trapping him, even if it was only temporary. But then decides his next best alternative is to give up his speed...what??

I was waiting for it to be some sort of ploy, a fake out and he didn't really give up his speed, but no he actually does. He is faster, has already beaten him, once he brings Wally back why o neat him again, either try capture him again or beat the crap out of him, anything.

But no, he gives up his speed, and assumes this lunatic, who they just discovered was actually a serial killer before he even got his powers, was just going to leave? No, he is going to kill you...which is only prevented by Caitlin having this 1 in a million effect on zoom that prevents him from killing Barry.

Been loving this show all year, so much better than Arrow, but this episode was stupid.

Antar Bolaeisk

The Flash can pretty much be summed up as a bunch of smart people continually doing really stupid stuff.

spektorfive

They released info on the Kevin Smith esp his doing

In the info they say Barry has to get back to normal life and the team have to fight the bad guy with out flash. So it seems like Barry did just give away his speed force

ixoy

Watched the Supergirl crossover there and thought Barry's scenes were a lot of fun. He had good chemistry with Supergirl and they made proper reference to the world of the Flash (unlike in the Flash where there was no mention).

OmegaRed

I'm so confused by Zoom, Jay Garrick, Hunter Zolomon....

If Hunter Zolomon was masquerading as both Zoom and earth 2 Flash, does that mean Jay Garrick has not actually beed seen yet? Does that mean the man in the Iron mask is actually someone different and is likely to be the actual Earth 2 flash (Not Jay Garrick).... :blink::unsure::wassat:

I'm really starting to struggle with all of these and feel like the writers made it up as they went along..... I'm gonna say it again... reminds me of the bad days of Smallville...

martingriff

OmegaRed wrote: »

I'm so confused by Zoom, Jay Garrick, Hunter Zolomon....

If Hunter Zolomon was masquerading as both Zoom and earth 2 Flash, does that mean Jay Garrick has not actually beed seen yet? Does that mean the man in the Iron mask is actually someone different and is likely to be the actual Earth 2 flash (Not Jay Garrick).... :blink::unsure::wassat:

I'm really starting to struggle with all of these and feel like the writers made it up as they went along..... I'm gonna say it again... reminds me of the bad days of Smallville...

Yes Jay has not been seen yet but you have to think how did Hunter Zolomon pick the name Jay Garrick.

_Kaiser_

It is starting to get a bit convoluted alright. I generally enjoy a bit of time travel/evil twin stuff (eg: Star Trek and it's Mirror Universe episodes), but I think the show is in danger now of going too far in this direction.

If they're not careful the light fun tone of the series that makes it so appealing will be damaged to the point that the ratings will suffer badly. Like it or not most of the viewers of this kind of show don't want to have to think too much or resort to comic book lore etc to try and keep things straight.

Zoom as a even faster evil bad guy with Tony Todd's (excellently distinctive) voice was enough.. all this time-remnant, multiple Jay's stuff is the show in the water, lining up on that shark...

squonk

Yeah to be honest I've gotten to the point where I just don't care about the Earth 2 Jay or Zoom anymore. I'm interested in the Wells/Barry dynamic. I'm not particularly interested in Barry's Journalist pseudo sister either, or her brother. It was a great show until this Earth 2 started. Now they're just throwing time travel and transdimensional travel at everything and it's gotten to the point where it's just getting hard to follow who is who anymore. There's still a great show there but they need to limit the travelling to a few episodes a season and focus on The Flash and Barry growing his abilities. Right now if there's any major blocker for Barry you can bet Earth 2 has a solution. I'd prefer if they came up with their own solutions. In the end, who cares about Zoom? Honestly I think it's a silly storyline really.

For all it's general silliness, Legends Of Tomorrow handles Time Travel much better and with more interesting consequences.