The Flash [** Spoilers ** ==> US pace]

CastorTroy

If it was the real Cisco he would've at least referenced Back to the Future Part 2.

LLMMLL

Didn't think it was great. Wrapping up an interesting story in one episode with some on-the-fly guff from Thawne. How did he know all this time stuff? Plus, if you change time, then it solidifies and can't be changed back, wouldn't that have happened when he went back in time and killed Barry's mother? Yet Barry was able to change this. I usually have a healthy sense of going along with whatever crap writers throw out but this stuck out for me. Also, he was in Flashpoint for 3 months and never bothered to look up Cisco? That was so jarring.

Penn

LLMMLL wrote: »

Didn't think it was great. Wrapping up an interesting story in one episode with some on-the-fly guff from Thawne. How did he know all this time stuff? Plus, if you change time, then it solidifies and can't be changed back, wouldn't that have happened when he went back in time and killed Barry's mother? Yet Barry was able to change this. I usually have a healthy sense of going along with whatever crap writers throw out but this stuck out for me. Also, he was in Flashpoint for 3 months and never bothered to look up Cisco? That was so jarring.

Thawne has way more experience and knowledge of using the speedforce to affect time, and we've seen him teach it to Barry before (such as with the time wraiths last year). He knows more of the limitations etc of it.

As for time solidifying, I think it was more that as Barry's memories of the real timeline faded, he'd forget Thawne ever went back to kill his mother in the first place and how to travel back in time, which would mean the new Flashpoint timeline would become the real one because Barry would no longer be able to go back to change it, as he'd have forgotten what the real timeline was. Plus we saw how he was losing his powers too (hence why Thawne had to be the one to speed them into the past).

Only the person who changes time knows what's different. If they forget what's different and what the old timeline was, they no longer know what's different and what was changed. That's why it becomes permanent.

D'Agger

Didn't enjoy the episode & yes I know, it's another critical post by me but the same problems exist - absolutely horrendous dialogue - the writing in this show is just layer after layer of cheese. I'd always enjoyed the overall story with each of the past two seasons but I don't think I can take another one based on this one episode.

All the interactions between the main characters eventually descend into mush and there's just too much volume of it per episode for me to be able to sit through it comfortably. I think I'll let the season play out and maybe watch a couple of episodes in a row a la netflix to see if I get into it but I've officially lost the excitement for week-to-week following of the show. Think I might read one or two of the comics in the mean time.

I get that it's a CW show, it's on prime time TV and needs to cater to more than one audience - not all superhero shows need to be 'dark' particularly seeing as Flash has historically been a somewhat lighthearted/witty character - but I still feel this show is living up to about 70% of it's potential. Their casting has been very good, the effects have gotten much better, but I can't get past how poor the dialogue is at times.

LLMMLL

Penn wrote: »

Only the person who changes time knows what's different. If they forget what's different and what the old timeline was, they no longer know what's different and what was changed. That's why it becomes permanent.

But Barry was the one who changed time this time so why would he forget the old timeline?

CastorTroy

I was wondering where the time wraiths were this time. Or do they only appear when there is more than one version of a person in a timeline?

Penn

LLMMLL wrote: »

But Barry was the one who changed time this time so why would he forget the old timeline?

His memories are being overwritten by the new ones.

ixoy

So Iris helps him out without being bothered that he's effectively wiping her out of existence? That version of her is gone. He also killed that Cisco too as well as potentially 7 billion people.

Also what about the other Barry? He jumps into the new time line three months ago. What happened to the Barry there before then? Dead as well? A body count that even Zoom failed to match.

Penn

ixoy wrote: »

So Iris helps him out without being bothered that he's effectively wiping her out of existence? That version of her is gone. He also killed that Cisco too as well as potentially 7 billion people.

Also what about the other Barry? He jumps into the new time line three months ago. What happened to the Barry there before then? Dead as well? A body count that even Zoom failed to match.

Bit over-dramatic, no? He didn't kill them.

Almost every time-travel story everywhere involves alternate versions of people and timelines being changed. It doesn't even nearly mean "killing" them.

Iris felt something around Barry that she realised was that the true version of her loved Barry and that the timeline she was in was wrong. Maybe that's because of her being more connected to Barry than anyone else, who knows? But, she knew the true timeline was better and that Barry had to put things right.

However, that doesn't mean he killed her, or that everyone in that timeline is dead. That alternate version of them now never existed. The only people who are dead, are Barry's parents, and that's only because Barry was putting the timeline where they did die back in place because it was for the best. It doesn't mean he killed them.

ixoy

Penn wrote: »

Bit over-dramatic, no? He didn't kill them.

Need to add smiley faces after my posts.

Far more relevant is that I feel they wasted an opportunity here - we could have spent a lot more time in the alternate branch. In fact in my head I saw this as effectively creating a new Earth - let's call it Earth-4. Then we could have had a dual storyline with Cisco and Co. on Earth-1 fighting without Barry in 'The Flash' but with Wally in the role. Then a perfect way to do a cross-over with Earth-1 (Arrow/The Flash), Earth-2 (LoT and the other Justice League), Earth-3 (Supergirl) and Earth-4. That would be much more interesting. Now looks like the alternate version is just Iris having issues with her dad..

Eire Go Brach

Well that was a bit of a mind****. What confused me. If Barry went back and saved his mother. What about Junior Barry? He would have grown up, why was there not 2 Barry's in the present day alternative timeline?

Rorok

Eire Go Brach wrote: »

Well that was a bit of a mind****. What confused me. If Barry went back and saved his mother. What about Junior Barry? He would have grown up, why was there not 2 Barry's in the present day alternative timeline?

Imagine it as Junior Barry went into autodrive/autopilot and now Flash Barry has taken back over

McLoughlin

Eire Go Brach wrote: »

Well that was a bit of a mind****. What confused me. If Barry went back and saved his mother. What about Junior Barry? He would have grown up, why was there not 2 Barry's in the present day alternative timeline?

There is only one Barry Junior Barry is Older Barry

larchielads

Seriously lads if Barry got to experience the new timeliness for only a few months than what happened to Barry as a kid he must been like 7??!! So this new time line should have 2 Barrys.

Barry at 7 and our Barry that we know. What happened the 7 yr old Barry?
What do the parents think? We had a 7 yr old last night but Nora there was nearly murdered in front of our little boy by a man in yellow but the man in red stopped him. Now our 7 yr old son is gone, vanished, now we have a 25 yr old man for a son over night and everything is perfect. Yay.

WHAT THE FCUK PEOPLE???????? Where's the fcuking kid gone????? He was supposedly there for only 3 months??!!

McLoughlin

Future Barry returned to present the moment after he saved his mother the young kid grew up to be Barry as normal with no knowledge of the future till the point Future Barry returned from the past when past Barry and Future Barry became one. He only has 3 months of memories cause it only had happened 3 months ago.

McLoughlin

Future Barry returned to present the moment after he saved his mother the young kid grew up to be Barry as normal with no knowledge of the future till the point Future Barry returned from the past when past Barry and Future Barry became one. He only has 3 months of memories cause it only had happened 3 months ago.

Monotype

Probably - he got to the present, found another "time remnant" that grew up in this alternative time line, murdered him and quickly took his place.

ixoy

Monotype wrote: »

Probably - he got to the present, found another "time remnant" that grew up in this alternative time line, murdered him and quickly took his place.

This is the only real explanation that's consistent with what we've seen from the show. In fact when Barry turned up at the warehouse to confront Thawn, I expected to see that time-line's version of Barry there instead. It's not as if he has any qualms about kidnapping other versions of himself.

larchielads

Wonder will any of it be explained in the show when wells shows up cos he'd probably be able to understand it the most?

martingriff

Could Thawne dropped Barry in a slightly altered parallel Earth. Doubt it

but the promo for episode 2 may point that Barry thinks it.

Eire Go Brach

McLoughlin wrote: »

Future Barry returned to present the moment after he saved his mother the young kid grew up to be Barry as normal with no knowledge of the future till the point Future Barry returned from the past when past Barry and Future Barry became one. He only has 3 months of memories cause it only had happened 3 months ago.

So if all he effectively has is memories. He should not really be the Flash. That kid never got struck by lightning. Well then again. It never said that he didn't. Oh my head. 😜

mightyreds

I think Barry still having his powers is creative licence, it doesn't make sense for him to have them , just they wanted to show him slowly becoming the Barry of this time, losing his old memories and speed

Unless there are repercussions to come, that was a monumental wasted opportunity.

Good that they acknowledged that the villain of this story is Barry

I actually agree with a lot here
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain

Also Starring LeVar Burton

Episode 2 was lots of fun and quite a few significant changes due to the repercussions of Flashpoint.

Highlight of the episode for me was the John Wesley Shipp stuff, especially the nod to his role in Dawson's Creek - I love all those little Easter Eggs they throw in.

Mr E

Much better than episode 1. Looks like the relationships are fixed, but there are more serious repercussions lurking.

I loved the scene where Barry was explaining the timeline, and like ASLB I thought the diner scene was great too.

They're playing a blinder with the cool guest voices. Tony Todd was great last year, Tobin Bell is great as Alchemy this year.

Next year - Morgan Freeman?

Agent Coulson

Nah it has to be Robert Englund as the guest voice next.:D

Tazzimus

Doug Bradley would also be a fine choice seeing as they're going that route with villain voices.

Monotype

Barry should just tell the guy he works with that he's the flash. I'm sure they'd get along better then.

Mr.Prodston

Much better than last week. Not that last week was bad but it just didn't hit the spot for me.

There could be a lot of fun in having Malfoy in the cast

CastorTroy

Random Malfoy appearance.
Like the new 52 in the comics, I always wonder how what he did affected things the way it has.

Comic Spoilers:

So Supergirl gets Derek Hale and Flash gets the Dread Doctors.