The Flash [** Spoilers ** ==> US pace]

off.the.walls

Was it just me or was savitar slower outside the speed force? Like previous episodes where they'd fought he was going through space as well as time, but he seemed slower in last nights episode.

Penn

off.the.walls wrote: »

Was it just me or was savitar slower outside the speed force? Like previous episodes where they'd fought he was going through space as well as time, but he seemed slower in last nights episode.

Yeah it might be that when he was trapped in the speed force he was able to use it to go faster (I think one of the Flashes said it was like he was moving so fast that he was teleporting rather than running). But Barry definitely managed to start matching his speed at the end of their fight last night.

A good episode by the standards of this season but the show has definitely taken a slide. Two big problems for me in last night's episode though:

a) Barry, seeing his girlfriend being killed in front of him by Savitar both when he travelled to the future and when Cisco vibed him there, noticed Iris wasn't wearing a ring which she normally wouldn't have been wearing anyway? So he proposed to her in order to change the future so she'd be wearing an engagement ring? He'd have been better off trying to convince her to get a new haircut. Would have had as much of an effect on changing the future.

And b) Jessie doesn't help with the fire because she's preoccupied with looking at Iris' engagement ring? Way to celebrate International Womens Day! And then when they discover Wally is being taken by Savitar and Barry runs off to try save him, she... doesn't do anything? She left her Universe to be with Wally and she can't even leave STAR Labs when he could very possibly be killed?

Nervous Wreck

JamboMac wrote: »

Yeah the show went a bit odd when just about everybody started becoming the flash, i know it's all thanks to the hole politically correct world we live in today but it's just stupid. We go from the flash to the flash squad, so why isn't their catman. How can actually any villians compete with 3 people who can run about 1,000 mph, other then the gorilla who had no issue keeping up.

How does political correctness lead to people gaining superspeed...?

Penn

JamboMac wrote: »

Yeah the show went a bit odd when just about everybody started becoming the flash, i know it's all thanks to the hole politically correct world we live in today but it's just stupid. We go from the flash to the flash squad, so why isn't their catman. How can actually any villians compete with 3 people who can run about 1,000 mph, other then the gorilla who had no issue keeping up.

Jessie Quick and Kid Flash are both existing characters from the comics.

As is Catman.

I'm glad I could address your concerns and I'm sure you now accept that political correctness is not an issue in this case. You're welcome.

I haven't watched the last .. probably 2 or 3 episodes. Realistically, is there any point in going back or should I just wait until the end of the season?

Mr E

You could comfortably skip 13 and 14 and jump straight to 15. There is a 3 second scene at the end of 14 that is covered in the "Previously" section of episode 15.

spektorfive

This was a really good ep, I'm dreading the musical one now, it seem so out of place. We seen Iris death so many times now, if it does happen "for real" it have no impact. It must be the fifth time we seen her "death".

sky88

so who is everyones guess for savitar going to be i thought the episode was hinting towards HR,wally or barry himself none of which would make much sense.

JamboMac

Penn wrote: »

Jessie Quick and Kid Flash are both existing characters from the comics.

As is Catman.

I'm glad I could address your concerns and I'm sure you now accept that political correctness is not an issue in this case. You're welcome.

Oh I know they all existed, but with them all existing so quickly together it's really created a shortening for the show and created some stupid storylines. I thought kid flash was Barry's son originally no?

JamboMac

sky88 wrote: »

so who is everyones guess for savitar going to be i thought the episode was hinting towards HR,wally or barry himself none of which would make much sense.

What about his dads version of the flash?

googled eyes

Just to get back to my thoughts on Savitar.

He said that he created himself and was stuck in the speed force and has been there that long that he'd almost gone insane.

A. Savitar created Kid Flash
B. As Wally was being sucked into the speed force, the last thing he sees is Barry standing there.

So that's two of the points Savitar mentioned about himself. Also as someone said it is very typical of how the writers do things.

Then once we find out who's who, the final arc of the season is Barry trying to stop Wally becoming Savitar/Wally's redemption

Ben Gadot

It would really by disappointing if that's how it plays out but I agree that's the likely route based on the last episode.

It'll be a mirror image of last season where Zoom was well executed until his unmasking. That's no disrespect to Teddy Sears but it all just became inexplicably silly once that happened (the up to that point ruthless Zoom giving Caitlyn way too much rope as an example).

Savitar has been done well enough but I'm dreading the point where the mask comes off and it ends with Wally breaking down in someone's arms.

Mitch Connor

In the original trip to the future HR wasn't there.
When they later vibed to the future HR was there, showing they could change the future - they made a point of this.
Wally vibed to the future after Barry and Iris got engaged so why did she not have the ring? Wally tells her (and causes) an issue after the engagement and after the vibe so she should have still been wearing it.

CastorTroy

HR may have been there originally, just Barry mightn't have seen him since he was only looking at Iris, Barry and Savitar.
As for the ring, it seems at this point it's some kind of predestination paradox.
That mightn't even be HR on the roof. Would you trust him with a gun? And why didn't he use the gun? Think it may be Harry.

One theory I read was that Savitar is

HR

---

because

Savitar called Wally "Wallace".

Ben Gadot

I wouldn't mind that and am actually hoping that's how it plays out. At least I'd know the actor could carry it.

Mitch Connor

CastorTroy wrote: »

HR may have been there originally, just Barry mightn't have seen him since he was only looking at Iris, Barry and Savitar.
As for the ring, it seems at this point it's some kind of predestination paradox.
That mightn't even be HR on the roof. Would you trust him with a gun? And why didn't he use the gun? Think it may be Harry.

One theory I read was that Savitar is

HR

---

because

Savitar called Wally "Wallace".

I had the exact same thought as you re. Savitar. Also

he has been the one training Wally up, pushing him to get faster.

There are also good clues for it to be Barry, a future version of Barry. A lot of what he says also points to it being Barry. "I'm the Future, Flash". just take that comma out....

googled eyes

I would much prefer it to be CasterTroy's idea !


Do we have to keep spoilering conjecture ? The heading of the thread say's "spoilers" plus nobody is actually trying to spoil the plot.

Or maybe have a Flash: Theories thread?

Nervous Wreck

Theories should defo be spoilered.

Nervous Wreck

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Theories should defo be spoilered.

If they are not built from comic info why?

Nervous Wreck

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If they are not built from comic info why?

Because they have the potential to spoil storylines. It doesnt matter if they're pure speculatuon; if elements or entire theories turn out to be accurate, then the surprise is spoiled. If the choice is asking people to spoiler theories or asking others who don't want to read those theories to just not read the thread for fear of spoiling, the obvious answer is spoiler tags.

CastorTroy

Yeah there have been a number of times where people have figured things out and posted them online without spoilers even though they're just theories. One recent example is Westworld where

people figured out who the man in black was

Some people may want to figure things out themselves or just go with the flow and not try predicting anything.
Like being told there's a great twist in a movie you're about to see, so you're then aware of that fact the whole way through.

Then there are the people who say they haven't read the comics but they have or just wiki'd it. You just have to look at Game of Thrones for that. People posting very accurate theories claiming not to have read the books.

Or my favourite is when people post in threads about historical characters like Spartacus or Boardwalk Empire and don't spoiler anything because everyone should know their Roman History or Prohibition history, apparently.


Anyway, rant over. sorry

tvnutz

Savitar looks hell of a lot better now that he is not fully CGI. It seems like they have some huge guy in a suit, the early episodes with him looked too much like a computer game.

Mr E

Two good episodes in a row. Wow.

JamboMac

What if savitar is

Barry when he has entered the speedforce hasn't he seen himself to his left and right,

maybe it's a clone.

LLMMLL

Thought the last 2 EPs have been awful from a character and dramatic standpoint.

Firstly while iris is being killed he notices she doesn't have a ring??? Why would he even consider that given that they had no plans to be engaged and hes witnessing something traumatic. Fake story to bring in the marriage aspect.

Then it looks like Iris is gonna dump him when she finds out why he asked her. But this week he dumped her??? For no discernible reason? Just awful.

And the speed force made no sense. You can't take Wally's place just because. Oh wait were gonna let Jay take his place. We just wanted you to learn you had to be the one to face savitar. Why? Eh just because.

I give shows like this a lot of leeway in believability. But this show is really taking the ......

Lithium93_

Something tells me you won't like the musical episode next week so :pac:

Penn

LLMMLL wrote: »

And the speed force made no sense. You can't take Wally's place just because. Oh wait were gonna let Jay take his place. We just wanted you to learn you had to be the one to face savitar. Why? Eh just because.

Barry has to be the one to face Savitar because Savitar is a result of Barry creating Flashpoint. The Speedforce is clearly somewhat sentient and is part of time as a whole.

It needs Barry to be the one to face Savitar because it helped Barry become stronger to beat Zoom, but then Barry messed up the timeline. This in a way is the Speedforce punishing Barry. He created what led to Savitar, so now he has to be the one to face him and deal with the consequences. That seemingly includes having to leave Jay behind in the Speedforce.

I'm not saying it's a great plot point, but at least it hammers home how badly Barry f*cked everything up with Flashpoint and that even though his friends may have ultimately forgiven him, the Speedforce hasn't, and that there won't be a do-over this time if Iris does die (fingers crossed (Barry & Patty 4EVA!)).

gazzer

As long as Iris gets killed of and Wally leaves (never to be seen again) I will be a happy bunny

Mitch Connor

loved the 'Getting slow in your Golden Age' comment.

D'Agger

^ Agreed on the Garrick, line

Thought the latest episode was the best of the lot, however, once again, the incredibly poor interaction between Iris & Barry confused matters somewhat and fell flat dramatically speaking.

Perhaps it's me looking back with rose tinted glasses, but Smallville seemed to nail character interactions with limited action, Flash seems to nail most (definitely not all due to budget constraints etc.) action sequences with some horrendous character interaction, particularly between Barry & Iris as has been mentioned here before.

Interested to see how the season pans out, but, once again I find myself beating the same drum of - The overall storyline is worth following, but weekly, there's at least 5 cringe/soppy/poorly done 'moments'