The Flash [** Spoilers ** ==> US pace]

LLMMLL

Penn wrote: »

Barry has to be the one to face Savitar because Savitar is a result of Barry creating Flashpoint. The Speedforce is clearly somewhat sentient and is part of time as a whole.

It needs Barry to be the one to face Savitar because it helped Barry become stronger to beat Zoom, but then Barry messed up the timeline. This in a way is the Speedforce punishing Barry. He created what led to Savitar, so now he has to be the one to face him and deal with the consequences. That seemingly includes having to leave Jay behind in the Speedforce.

I'm not saying it's a great plot point, but at least it hammers home how badly Barry f*cked everything up with Flashpoint and that even though his friends may have ultimately forgiven him, the Speedforce hasn't, and that there won't be a do-over this time if Iris does die (fingers crossed (Barry & Patty 4EVA!)).

I get that the speed force has motivations but they make no sense. It's just an excuse for the writers to do whatever they feel like. And unfortunately what they feel like doing is yet another guilt storyline. Which are the worst superhero stories ever.

Mitch Connor

LLMMLL wrote: »

I get that the speed force has motivations but they make no sense. It's just an excuse for the writers to do whatever they feel like. And unfortunately what they feel like doing is yet another guilt storyline. Which are the worst superhero stories ever.

Barry has a lot to be guilty about though. I would have loved a Flashpoint season, set on an alternate timeline where things were all very different - but that couldn't be done with the Arrow, Legends and Supergirl. Having somewhat reset Flashpoint, they needed to progress how changing the past and effecting the world would impact Barry and how he would deal with it.

LLMMLL

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Barry has a lot to be guilty about though. I would have loved a Flashpoint season, set on an alternate timeline where things were all very different - but that couldn't be done with the Arrow, Legends and Supergirl. Having somewhat reset Flashpoint, they needed to progress how changing the past and effecting the world would impact Barry and how he would deal with it.

Did it have to be another guilt storyline though. They do a couple every season. And then they do one where the hero realises they shouldn't feel guilty all the time. And then a few episodes later they go right back to a guilt storyline.

I'd love an episode where they go "I've saved millions of lives, occasionally I.cant save the odd person , that's life and I'm not going to feel guilty about it" and stick to it.

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

Did it have to be another guilt storyline though. They do a couple every season. And then they do one where the hero realises they shouldn't feel guilty all the time. And then a few episodes later they go right back to a guilt storyline.

I'd love an episode where they go "I've saved millions of lives, occasionally I.cant save the odd person , that's life and I'm not going to feel guilty about it" and stick to it.

Barry didn't just fail to save people.. he killed them through his action

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Barry didn't just fail to save people.. he killed them through his action

I'm not saying he has nothing to feel guilty about. Just that it's a crap storyline. Like he was blaming himself for Wally's bad decision. And he's blamed.himself for.multiple things throughout the show. Just because he has a good reason this time doesn't make it a less dull overused device for fake drama.

Blazer

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Something tells me you won't like the musical episode next week so :pac:

With the exception of the supernatural episode i don't think any show has ever done a good musical, plus i hate them with a passion.

ixoy

Blazer wrote: »

With the exception of the supernatural episode i don't think any show has ever done a good musical, plus i hate them with a passion.

'Xena: Warrior Princess' did a couple of ones and did it before Buffy for that matter.

Lithium93_

Andrew Kreisberg revealed during the Paleyfest panel that Season 4

won't have a speedster villain

crazyderk

Is this crossover episode both supergirl and flash or just flash?
Do I need to watch the supergirl episode seeing as I dont usually watch it?

Agent Coulson

Just the Flash you will see the Supergirl part in the previously on Supergirl at the start of the Flash.


Basically the last minute of Supergirl is the beginning of the crossover.

Mr E

Thought I'd hate it, but it was very good. Some good laughs too.

There are some very talented singers in the Arrowverse. I can see this being an annual thing.

Agent Coulson

I loved it but I do have a soft spot for musicals.

Also Starring LeVar Burton

Thought it was great, but I never doubted otherwise. Delighted they got Rachel Bloom (creator, song-writer and star of Crazy Ex-Girlfriend) to write that Super Friends song, which was the highlight of the episode.

homingbird

It was a load of croc riding on the success of la la land to pull in more viewers nothing to do with storyline so far i watched it in about 5 mins on fast forward.

connemara man

That was a fun 40 or so minutes. Maybe not the strongest plot wise but you know what it never dragged had some decent laughs all around decent and fun

Penn

homingbird wrote: »

It was a load of croc riding on the success of la la land to pull in more viewers nothing to do with storyline so far i watched it in about 5 mins on fast forward.

It was announced that they were doing it long before LaLaLand was released so it wasn't riding on it's success, and every single episode of every single tv show ever made is going to suck when you watch it in five minutes on fast forward.

titan18

homingbird wrote: »

It was a load of croc riding on the success of la la land to pull in more viewers nothing to do with storyline so far i watched it in about 5 mins on fast forward.

Well, someone's a grumpus.

That was fantastic, made Flash fun again. Super Friends song was great, Barry's impression of Superman, when Kara said you can always go back in time, and Barry was just I'm not meant to do that anymore.

Seeing Joe and Stein sing too is fun. I'd like if they did these annually, maybe bring Oliver in next time for a laugh.

_Kaiser_

That was not at all what I expected. Very enjoyable episode

PhiloCypher

Just watched this and while its no once more with feeling , who's songs were all original, catchy and progressed the plot of the episode and season. It still managed to do a number on me (I'm sorry ). The Arrowverse really does have a deep bench when it comes to great singers Melissa Benoist, Grant Gustin, Jesse Martin, Jeremy Jordan, Carlos Valdes,Victor Garber, John Barrowman. I got to give Major props to Grant Gustin, Candice Patton and or the writers as either through better writing(ie making Iris less annoying) or through sheer persistence I've finally begun to look past the creepiness of them basically being step siblings and buy into their relationship, with that final scene hitting me in the feels in a way I wouldn't have thought possible 2 seasons ago.

ixoy

Really enjoyed this one. It did the one thing that's been missing from Flash all season: it made it fun! Melissa and Grant have great chemistry, which really helped but wasn't it nice to see Gustin smile a lot? That's what we enjoyed in the first season - and not this angsty moping around.

The songs were good, with the obvious highlight of the Crazy Ex-influence from Rachel Bloom in Super Friends. Not on a par with that show's songs or, if we're going for TV-with-musical-specials then Xena: Warrior Princess's "Bitter Suite" (which pre-dates Buffy's Once More With Feeling and was better!!). Anyone who thinks it's a cash-in must surely fail to realise the Arrowverse has 2 leads from Glee and something like this was always on the cards.

Agent Coulson

Not just former Glee cast members but Jesse, Victor and John B there as well I;m surprised it's taken this long to get a musical episode.

_Kaiser_

There was ONE problem... namely there is only one version of this song...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVvkj7jL-RM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luVPbjHgP2s

Ahh.. that's better!

Ben Gadot

Wasn't mad about the start/ending but I more or less liked how they handled it. Of all the female leads across the verse that Gustin has interacted with it's amazing to me still that he has the least going on with Patton.

Lithium93_

Well that was different, but thoroughly entertaining.

JamboMac

Watched the super friends on youtube, i don't feel inspired, pure galtee.

CastorTroy

I really enjoyed it.
Though how does Barry know Superman?

And glad to see they could get Garber and Barrowman on to the show. Of course Garber also had Day Oh laxt week.

So what/who is Music Meister? I'm assuming was just there as a reason to do this episode since there was no answer given.

And yes, Scrooged will always be front of my mind when hearing that song, just like Higher and Higher will always be linked to Ghostbusters 2.

Now to wait for Music Meister's album release

sky88

Fun show

One I've enjoyed the most this season

Penn

It was a fun episode, finally. It wasn't overloaded with songs, the guest stars really made it an event, and the stuff with Music Meister was intriguing enough to just allow you to go with it.

Best part of the episode though, Vibe, Martian Manhunter and Kid Flash fighting together. We need more Vibe fighting. His powers in most episodes are confined to opening breaches and seeing things. I'd like to see more of him and Barry fighting together and combining powers in new ways next season, rather than Barry and Wally, or Barry and Jessie, or Barry and Jay...

Penn

CastorTroy wrote: »

I really enjoyed it.
Though how does Barry know Superman?

I'm thinking they've been communicating across dimensions somehow. After all, Cisco seemed to know Jon and where he worked (though didn't know he was MM) etc.

Probably just a way of keeping their Earths separate within the Arrowverse but without having to spend a lot of time on exposition when crossovers happen.

Mitch Connor

the difference between Flash and Arrow this week could not have been more stark.