The Flash [** Spoilers ** ==> US pace]

Nervous Wreck

I can't find my American friends to watch this with...

Lithium93_

My 2 main questions from this episode, How? & Why?

Yggr of Asgard

And how could the CW support such predictable choice and that lazy writing.

Sure it was never the best written show this season and the episode order is just too large to sustain any quality, but that choice was so obvious that it hurts that it was allowed to play out.

5star02707

very predictable >_< would've preferred it to be someone else.

Ben Gadot

Like with Season 2's eventual reveal, the air has been deflated from the momentum of the villain. Zoom became a goof when the mask came off so I imagine Savitar will be all emo with a touch of the Anakin Skywalkers.

Then again they kind of boxed themselves in on this one as of all the suspects only

Cavanagh and Gustin could carry it. I would have preferred the former and would have given Wells this weird but cool perpetual foe vibe to Barry.

The reveal was just a symptom of overall poor effort this season in the writing room.

Lithium93_

Andrew Kreisberg discussed the reveal with Entertainment Weekly.

Spoilers ahead.

What’s really cool for anyone who thought that there wasn’t a plan, or we didn’t know, or we were making this up as we go, this was always where we were heading. The idea that the darkest villain we could come up with was actually a very damaged version of our hero was interesting and fresh to us... So to have our lead actor be both the hero and the villain isn’t something we’ve done before, so that was exciting for us as storytellers.

Usually the hero and the villain have the same backstory, just one took the pain and tragedy that they were subjected to and it girded them into wanting to do good and become a hero, and with the villain, it damaged them so badly [that] they wanted to make everybody hurt as badly as they did. Barry sees in Savitar that he could’ve gone down that path, too, but he had Iris, Joe, Cisco, Caitlin, his father, he had the memory of his mother — he had all of these things that helped mold him into the hero that he is. Savitar lost all that.

Agent Coulson

Monkeys with typewriters would have come up with a better reveal than that.

Lithium93_

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Monkeys with typewriters would have come up with a better reveal than that.

I still think there's maybe one more twist with Savitar.

Penn

Was really hoping for it to be some alternate version of Cisco, even the one from the future we saw last week. Would explain the suit (uses it to replicate Barry's power which given his knowledge of Barry's power and the speed force is something he could conceivably make), the connection to everyone, p*ssed at Barry for what happened to Caitlyn which brings back his hatred at Barry for what happened his brother, and generally somehow driven mad for some reason.

But no. It's Barry. Because of course it is. Barry creates a time remnant to save Iris who fails and decides to kill Iris.

Oh they better have a good explanation for this.

Yggr of Asgard

This show really would benefit from a shorter season order instead of the 23 one which requires too many buffer episodes.

They show runners are trying to call this a shocking twist, as if most people did not see this coming from a mile away. I totally don't believe their statements about how this was the plan all along.

Not that the acting in the episode was not good, way better than last weeks Emo Barry but the "reveal" was just a joke. When you have loads of talent on the show you had your choice but nope they did go down the remnant route.

Ah well, it's just television and every show is allowed some bad episodes.

JamboMac

Penn wrote: »

Was really hoping for it to be some alternate version of Cisco, even the one from the future we saw last week. Would explain the suit (uses it to replicate Barry's power which given his knowledge of Barry's power and the speed force is something he could conceivably make), the connection to everyone, p*ssed at Barry for what happened to Caitlyn which brings back his hatred at Barry for what happened his brother, and generally somehow driven mad for some reason.

But no. It's Barry. Because of course it is. Barry creates a time remnant to save Iris who fails and decides to kill Iris.

Oh they better have a good explanation for this.

Thanks for the spoiler, knew it wouldn't be great but come on, next you'll tell me how the titanic end's.

Penn

JamboMac wrote: »

Thanks for the spoiler, knew it wouldn't be great but come on, next you'll tell me how the titanic end's.

?

[** Spoilers ** ==> US pace]

JamboMac

Penn wrote: »

?

[** Spoilers ** ==> US pace]

It means put the spoilers inside that grey stuff, that's what i took it as, why do you think the majority do it. It's not just f'ing and blinding behind it.

Agent Coulson

Spoilers means once the episode airs it free to talk about without spoiler tags so enter at your own risk.


What needs to be in the tags is talk and leaks including videos for upcoming episodes and the comic storylines that may spoil future episodes.

JamboMac

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Spoilers means once the episode airs it free to talk about without spoiler tags so enter at your own risk.


What needs to be in the tags is talk and leaks including videos for upcoming episodes and the comic storylines that may spoil future episodes.

[** Spoilers ** ==> US pace] == spoilers equals US pace or greater, so spoilers are not spoilers when it airs on this side of the atlantic.

Tazzimus

That means this thread is to discuss it at the US pace, not whenever it airs over here.
It aired in the US already so no need for spoilers now.

Mr E

Mod: What he said. ^^ Once the show has aired, it can be discussed without spoiler tags.

Decent episode, lazy revelation (complete with Kaiser Soze-ish montage).

JamboMac

Tazzimus wrote: »

That means this thread is to discuss it at the US pace, not whenever it airs over here.
It aired in the US already so no need for spoilers now.

But if that's what you think it means, then it really say's all spoilers are allowed even before they have been aired. This means == equal to in IT exact match this means > greater than.

So spoilers are allowed to run at greater than an american pace, i didn't write the title i'm just reading it how it's written.

Tazzimus

JamboMac wrote: »

But if that's what you think it means, then it really say's all spoilers are allowed even before they have been aired. This means == equal to in IT exact match this means > greater than.

So spoilers are allowed to run at greater than an american pace, i didn't write the title i'm just reading it how it's written.

Fairly sure that's just making an arrow.

If you're right though, why would you come into a thread full of spoilers and then complain about something being spoiled? Would it not make more sense to avoid this thread until you watch the episode and then pop in to see what's being said?

JamboMac

--> That's how everybody makes an arrow <--

In fairness that's why i made the titanic comment:)

Some people though might be invested in this show and in all honesty i thought it was common courtesy in here to try and not spoil it for others.
But if the title of the thread means something, then maybe it should be clearer.

Lets be honest the show needs a shift or else it hasn't got long and maybe it needs to stay further away from the comic story lines and completely re-invent itself.

Look at how you make spoiler comments. It's not an arrow the title say's spoiler's are deemed an american pace or greater and to put them in the brackets.

[** Spoilers ** ==> US pace]

_Kaiser_

On the spoiler question.. If I'm off or working from home and watch an episode over lunch, I'll usually spoiler any major points until later that night when most people would have caught up as
a courtesy - but yes, enter at own risk after the show airs in the US really

On the episode itself.. decent enough overall but agree that it's a lazy way out/reveal on who Savitar is. LOL'd at the emo Skywalker comparison tho

CastorTroy

I'm still not sure what version of Barry he is. The voice flashback said Savitar killed all the time remnants

Was wondering why Tracy looked familiar. She was in House.

I never understand why speedsters don't do what the want to do instead of choosing/talking. Like they said he saved Caitlin instead of killing Tracey. Why couldn't he do both, since killing would take less than a second. Or now we have Barry standing talking instead of attacking him and getting him away from the suit.

Penn

CastorTroy wrote: »

I'm still not sure what version of Barry he is. The voice flashback said Savitar killed all the time remnants

Future Barry from last week said Savitar killed all the time remnants, but I'm guessing Savitar didn't kill the one he knew would become him, because it's his past self. Future Barry just must not have known that one survived.

I think that voice flashback was just there to demonstrate Savitar is a time remnant version of Barry as opposed to the original from the future.

Ben Gadot

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

On the spoiler question.. If I'm off or working from home and watch an episode over lunch, I'll usually spoiler any major points until later that night when most people would have caught up as
a courtesy - but yes, enter at own risk after the show airs in the US really

On the episode itself.. decent enough overall but agree that it's a lazy way out/reveal on who Savitar is. LOL'd at the emo Skywalker comparison tho

I'll usually black out spoilers to be safe if for nothing else. I have the sense to know when the show airs and see new posts here that best to leave alone until I've watched, but I've had enough people moaning at me for quite frankly their own carelessness.

givyjoe

Penn wrote: »

Future Barry from last week said Savitar killed all the time remnants, but I'm guessing Savitar didn't kill the one he knew would become him, because it's his past self. Future Barry just must not have known that one survived.

I think that voice flashback was just there to demonstrate Savitar is a time remnant version of Barry as opposed to the original from the future.

I thought he actually said "he killed almost all the time remnants".

CastorTroy

I think he did last week yet seems to have changed for this week.

And once again they're probably going to mess up the whole time travel thing and make it confusing. Like the encounter with Caitlin which shows it happened before means that everything is destined to play out as expected. So Iris has to die

JamboMac

Savitar is the barry from the timeline that saved his mother, that's why people in that time that had powers he helped them gain them again, Simples.

What the charter says:

Remember, not everyone may have seen a TV show.
If you are giving away plot points, please use the spoiler tag.
To do this, put (spoiler) (/spoiler) around the text. (replace the () brackets with [] brackets.)

It will then look like this:

Spoiler: This is a spoiler

Lithium93_

JamboMac wrote: »

Savitar is the barry from the timeline that saved his mother, that's why people in that time that had powers he helped them gain them again, Simples.

So essentially Savitar is Flashpoint Barry without speed basically, hence the suit?

JamboMac

Lithium93_ wrote: »

So essentially Savitar is Flashpoint Barry without speed basically, hence the suit?

That's my theory, we'll find out next season. But he must have been in some disaster to melt his face. Some radiation blast maybe. Maybe he gained his speed but a different way.

Penn

JamboMac wrote: »

Savitar is the barry from the timeline that saved his mother, that's why people in that time that had powers he helped them gain them again, Simples.

What the charter says:

Can't be. Barry is the Barry from the timeline that saved his mother. Reverse Flash physically brought him back to the past, killed his mother again, then brought him back to the (current) present.

As for the spoilers issue, I'm sorry you got spoiled, however the thread title is clear. Spoilers ==> US Pace. Once the episode airs in the US, there are likely going to be spoilers in this thread for any episode which has already aired in the US. I didn't enter this thread yesterday until I'd watched the episode in case I read a spoiler. That's the way it works throughout the TV forum. The note from the charter is a catch-all note for general discussion.

Again, sorry you got spoiled. But you spoiled it on yourself by entering a thread where people would be discussing the latest aired episode.

Edit:
From further down in the Charter:

Just to be completely clear on the use of spoilers:
- If a thread title has the word "Spoilers" in it, then it is OK to discuss the most recent episode (or older) without using [ spoiler ] tags.
- If you have news about a future episode (from spoilerfix, ausiello etc.), then most people don't want to know (no, really - they prefer to be surprised by major plot developments and twists).
- If you feel it should be posted anyway, please use [ spoiler ] tags (to give people the option of reading them or not). Also contextualise the spoiler by saying what it's about outside of the spoiler tag (Spoiler about Season Finale, Spoiler about Character Exit, etc.)
- Links to interviews, show news etc. are OK (people can decide on whether or not to click them).
- Posting Youtube clips of "next episode" promos is also OK in the TV forum (people can decide whether or not to watch them).
- Bear in mind that some show-specific forums in the TV category have their own rules about where promo clips can be posted. Please check their charter if you are not sure.