The Flash [** Spoilers ** ==> US pace]

pixelburp

Yeah feels like that finale was Barry paying for all the chaos he has essentially caused but like everyone else, I fear the show will simply have him return during or by the end of the season 4 premiere. Heck Flashpoint didn't last an episode, can't imagine Barry will stay locked in the speed force for too long.

Primarily I hope the show retools itself somewhat, a soft reboot perhaps cos it has got way too glib and lazy with its writing. Step 1 might be following through on Star Labs' trashing and relocating the show...

Ben Gadot

Gustin seems to be on the up as an actor so I wouldn't surprised if this is where he takes a step back from Flash, at least for a while anyway.

They might get away with Jesse, Jay and Wally for half a season but after that Gustin will be needed back.

ixoy

So just me who thought it was crap then?

The twist was indeed forecast by people here, but I had assumed it wouldn't happen because it was such a poor idea. It was actually worse than I thought as it was implemented so poorly - Savatar just leaves Iris tied far away from him? Really? And when they do the switchereoo he doesn't pause to think why Iris might have drumsticks (as they seemed to be in his hand)?

Then Barry brings back Emo Barry for a hugging session to make up, waving Iris - who he had repeatedly tried to kill - in front of him without taking any precautions because Emo Barry was looking a little sad, so he was safe now. Ugh.

Then a tedious 5-minute bye bye from Barry before he joins the Speedforce. Tedious because it will be resolved so very quickly - if they undid Flashpoint in 1 episode, this won't last long at all because they're not going to leave the show stranded of its star.

Oh and if Barry can deliver a bunch of invites in a split second, why all the hassle of running across a park to save Iris...

Hoping for something better next season. If nothing else, please stop the bloody time travel. Leave that to 'Legends of Tomorrow' which knows how to play it up!

Mitch Connor

Terrible final episode.

Just so bad.

pixelburp

ixoy wrote: »

So just me who thought it was crap then?
[...]

No, I thought it was pretty poor; symptomatic of the whole season really. Capped off the arc of Barry's mistakes which was fine, but how it got there was beyond poor.

Obviously, The Flash is a show that requires a certain suspension of disbelief, and it's a big ball of cheese at heart, nobody would deny that or mistake it for ... I dunno, Tweak Peaks. This season however, it increasingly felt like things were happening simply because the writers weren't bothered even trying to weave a coherent story; they just threw plot at the wall & expected the audience to go 'OK' with it all.

The entire Killer Frost plot was arguably the worst offender here, never even attempting to rationalise or explain how Caitlin's powers equating to evil. Nope, we just had to accept it, she needs to be Killer Frost so freeze powers === evil & leather skirts. This finale had a whole bunch of that sort of narrative shoulder-shrugging going on: the convenient Killer Frost cure I genuinely don't recall anyone talking about; Cisco suddenly able to adapt a physics gun apparently only Dr. Brand was hitherto able to build; that whole bait & switch, and so on. In fact, HR's demise brought up how the show doesn't even keep to its own continuity: remember how HR was supposedly walking around disguised as his old partner, 'cos Earth 1 Wells was a known villain? The show sure doesn't!

Honestly, I love The Flash more than I hate it, but what I hate is it's recent inability to get its sh*t together and remember that just because it's a big dopey comicbook show, doesn't mean they have to have writing from comicbooks circa 1950.

Penn

It was an okay finale, but didn't do anything to redeem the season as a whole.

The HR reveal was signposted way too much last week, with the face changer thing, HR talking to Cisco and then staring at Savitar's blade. Way too obvious what was going to happen. My theory last week was maybe he uses Jesse to swap him and Iris while Barry was fighting Savitar. What happened though, was just ridiculous. HR risks trying to rescue Iris in front of Evil-Barry (who is a f*cking speedster) and Killer Frost, on the off-chance that they don't turn around. And then, Evil-Barry sends Frost to catch them instead of doing it himself even though he's a f*cking speedster!

Caitlyn took down Black Flash far too easily considering how fearsome he was supposed to be by Reverse Flash in LoT. One f*cking blast while he was running at super-speed (which means at a speed faster than or equal to RF's speed).

Evil-Barry chit-chats with Barry and Iris for ages for... why exactly? To put the Philosopher's Stone into Star Labs and make it explode? Speedster! Just run in and f*cking do it! Or, kill Iris. May not be how it was originally supposed to happen, but maybe killing her after making Barry think he saved her would have accomplished the same thing and you wouldn't become a paradox.

Plus the final battle was boring and badly shot. Bar the bit where Savitar cuts the trees and the three flashes are chasing him, that looked pretty cool. But even then, you have Killer Frost, Cisco, Gypsy, Flash, Kid Flash and another Flash lined up to take Savitar down. Could be a great battle. Nope, Barry just knocks him out of his suit, and then Iris shoots him (where did she get the gun?) while he's moving at superspeed towards Barry (and Cisco & Caitlyn). Annie f*cking Oakley.

Only good parts were Caitlyn not being cured because that would have been an even bigger cop-out than anything else, and Harry being back, hopefully permanently. He's the best version of all the Harrison Wells' we've had. And even though Barry will obviously get out of the Speedforce probably in the first episode or two next season, at least he's paying for messing with time.

Blazer

I thought it was muck to be honest.
My go to show this season has been Agents of Shield which has been absolutely fantastic with excellent writing.
In comparison Arrow and the Flash has been absolute garbage in comparison this season.
The rumours are season 5 is the last season of AoS and if I was the the Producer of the flash I'd be straight over to their set and poaching their writers and directors.

JamboMac

It was pretty bad episode, pure cheesy and shouldn't wally lose his powers and anybody else who savitar gave them to, surely when the paradox caught up with savitar then it undone what he did.

I hope they got better writers or this thing will only get worse.

FunLover18

JamboMac wrote:

It was pretty bad episode, pure cheesy and shouldn't wally lose his powers and anybody else who savitar gave them to, surely when the paradox caught up with savitar then it undone what he did.

Yes, when they did the episode when Barry had his memory wiped a big plot point was Wally possibly losing his powers. It's​ almost like the writers are making it as I they go.

Kimbot

JamboMac wrote: »

It was pretty bad episode, pure cheesy and shouldn't wally lose his powers and anybody else who savitar gave them to, surely when the paradox caught up with savitar then it undone what he did.

I hope they got better writers or this thing will only get worse.

But the more he changes time the less the laws apply to him

Remember most the people that got their powers from Savitar were due to get their powers but then flashpoint happened and changed the course of it.

pixelburp

FunLover18 wrote: »

Yes, when they did the episode when Barry had his memory wiped a big plot point was Wally possibly losing his powers. It's​ almost like the writers are making it as I they go.

I wouldn't say it's 'like' they're winging it, I think that's exactly the problem. There's no way the writing staff give a damn about their own continuity or internal logic, otherwise there wouldn't be this mess with even the non-time-travel parts of the story...

FunLover18

pixelburp wrote:

I wouldn't say it's 'like' they're winging it, I think that's exactly the problem. There's no way the writing staff give a damn about their own continuity or internal logic, otherwise there wouldn't be this mess with even the non-time-travel parts of the story...

Yeh I had intended that be a lot more sarcastic, but the effort of doing italics and winky faces in the phone isn't worth it. They clearly have no interest in continuity, even little things like Savitar's armour changes future Barry's voice but not present day Barry's.. Also that episode really highlight how bad Savitar's armour looked.

pixelburp

FunLover18 wrote: »

Yeh I had intended that be a lot more sarcastic, but the effort of doing italics and winky faces in the phone isn't worth it. They clearly have no interest in continuity, even little things like Savitar's armour changes future Barry's voice but not present day Barry's..

Are the other Arrowverse shows as bad for internal consistency? The only other one I watch is Supergirl, and while it has its own wobbles, it feels like they're trying to keep some consistent continuity.

FunLover18 wrote: »

Also that episode really highlight how bad Savitar's armour looked.

The sight of Savitar clumsily walking down a small hill in that foam armour was a sight to behold. I genuinely laughed out loud.

Penn

FunLover18 wrote: »

Yeh I had intended that be a lot more sarcastic, but the effort of doing italics and winky faces in the phone isn't worth it. They clearly have no interest in continuity, even little things like Savitar's armour changes future Barry's voice but not present day Barry's.. Also that episode really highlight how bad Savitar's armour looked.

I had to wonder why Savitar's glow changed to red once normal Barry was in the suit. Like Evil-Barry programmed in LEDs that change based on the good:evil ratio of whoever wears the suit

FunLover18

pixelburp wrote:

Are the other Arrowverse shows as bad for internal consistency? The only other one I watch is Supergirl, and while it has its own wobbles, it feels like they're trying to keep some consistent continuity.

I also only watch Flash and Supergirl so couldn't say about the others. It might actually be quite lucky that Supergirl is set in another universe​ as I could see myself dropping Flash next season.

pixelburp wrote:

The sight of Savitar clumsily walking down a small hill in that foam armour was a sight to behold. I genuinely laughed out loud.

There was a gif going around yesterday of Dan Stevens in the mocap suit he had to wear for Beauty and the Beast and the resemblance is very amusing.

LLMMLL

Apparently the face changer also makes you smaller and gives you boobs.

Mitch Connor

LLMMLL wrote: »

Apparently the face changer also makes you smaller and gives you boobs.

we saw it completely change appearance in the episode before - with Barry looking like Diggles wife. Zero issue with that.

HR acting as Iris though... incredible stuff, almost like it was actually Iris afraid for her life.

larchielads

Wonder how barry gets out of the speed force? My guess is he makes a deal with the speed force to become the black flash for a bit til they get a new one since kaitlin killed him.

He becomes the black flash in the comics so that would be one way of introducing it without going to deep into it. Then when he gets out and the team asks how he got out he could tell them that story with a few flash backs of him doing the speed forces bidding.

Johnmb

larchielads wrote: »

Wonder how barry gets out of the speed force? My guess is he makes a deal with the speed force to become the black flash for a bit til they get a new one since kaitlin killed him.

He becomes the black flash in the comics so that would be one way of introducing it without going to deep into it. Then when he gets out and the team asks how he got out he could tell them that story with a few flash backs of him doing the speed forces bidding.

I wonder if maybe he gets replaced by a future version of himself. Doesn't the article that is now, once again, written by Iris say that the Flash has disappeared, so maybe that's why.

Clareman

Someone pointed out "BobbleHead Barry" to me, now I can never watch the Flash without noticing that Barry never f**king stops moving his head

http://coub.com/view/faky4

martingriff

I didn't mind the finale not as much as some on here. I am guessing why has Wally still got his powers if Savitar is gone is the same reasons for why is Cisco still Vibe if the Reverse Flash is gone or Barry's parents should be alive. The Black Flash been frozen has been used before with other speedsters didn't Captain Cold use his cold gun to stop Barry and didn't Caitlin earlier in the use her Killer Frost powers to freeze Savitar for a bit.

The switch was well telegraphed but I am glad how they did it rather then what I was dreading Barry going back in time. Plus Iris been knocked out shows how she did not arrive in time. But the point of Savitar not just killing Iris was strange but maybe his ultimate plan all along was to be zapped into the speedforce and be everywhere at once but the whole Savitar story was very poorly done.

Barry going into the speedforce for his penance so to speak for his many misgiving is cool and depending on how the producers think Keiynan Lonsdale can carry the show along we may not see Barry as the Flash for a number of episodes.

I think we will see Barry in the speedforce or as the Black Flash and when he comes out will be better trained and more confident of his powers I do not think we will se time travel (except the Legends) this season. I know people are worried and have a right to be as it was a bad season but if Arrow can pull back after last season I think so can The Flash

Edit: Having the 3 Flashes run and fight together was great but of course the Irish shooting him was lazy but he was human so can be shot.

spektorfive

I think Evil Barry was losing his speed force powers as he was running towards Barry. Might be the reason why Iris was able to kill him, maybe?

I found it strange for a final esp, I thought all the steam was in the last esp and they were just kinda flapping about in this one. Savitar killed loads of people, including HR. Bringing evil Barry to the Lab and acting like things could be normal was odd.

One of the problems I have is Savitar was written differently before we knew it was Barry. The dark, kick-ass Savitar just seemed to go away when the Barry revel happen. Also once Barry found it, in the future if he doesn't create a double of himself there will be no Savitar hence Iris death might not happen, maybe?

Was anything ever done with the news report from the future, I know some were dealt with but did anything happens with Joe getting his big day and S.T.A.R labs museum closing down?

Good point about Wally not losing his power since he did lose his power when Savitar lost his memory. I think they probably just forget about it.

One thing I don't get. Hunter/Zoom was the black flash?

CastorTroy

Nah, Black Flash is basically a Speedster grim reaper that comes for anomalies. Zoom was Zoom.

spektorfive

But didn't all Filler no Killer Frost say something like "bye hunter" before she iced him?

Lithium93_

Season 4 of The Flash starts filming July 4th.

Agent Coulson

Clareman wrote: »

Someone pointed out "BobbleHead Barry" to me, now I can never watch the Flash without noticing that Barry never f**king stops moving his head

http://coub.com/view/faky4

Fcuk I can't stop seeing now :P

martingriff

spektorfive wrote: »

I think Evil Barry was losing his speed force powers as he was running towards Barry. Might be the reason why Iris was able to kill him, maybe?

I found it strange for a final esp, I thought all the steam was in the last esp and they were just kinda flapping about in this one. Savitar killed loads of people, including HR. Bringing evil Barry to the Lab and acting like things could be normal was odd.

One of the problems I have is Savitar was written differently before we knew it was Barry. The dark, kick-ass Savitar just seemed to go away when the Barry revel happen. Also once Barry found it, in the future if he doesn't create a double of himself there will be no Savitar hence Iris death might not happen, maybe?

Was anything ever done with the news report from the future, I know some were dealt with but did anything happens with Joe getting his big day and S.T.A.R labs museum closing down?

Good point about Wally not losing his power since he did lose his power when Savitar lost his memory. I think they probably just forget about it.

One thing I don't get. Hunter/Zoom was the black flash?

He was "killed" because he got hit by a bullet but would have been gone before that I guess but she wasn't to know.

I think there dealing with Wally's having powers with the way Thawne was erased and nothing changed as that timeline and Barry as the Flash should not have happened

cython

CastorTroy wrote: »

Nah, Black Flash is basically a Speedster grim reaper that comes for anomalies. Zoom was Zoom.

spektorfive wrote: »

But didn't all Filler no Killer Frost say something like "bye hunter" before she iced him?

I think the intention was that Zoom, after being taken away by the time wraiths, was turned into the Black Flash, and put to use doing similar work.

CastorTroy

But he popped up in Legends as well and was just explained as Black flash, if I remember correctly.

For Caitlin, i kinda wish they stuck with the comic version of the need to feed off people

Tazzimus

cython wrote: »

I think the intention was that Zoom, after being taken away by the time wraiths, was turned into the Black Flash, and put to use doing similar work.

She may have just meant hunter, not Hunter.