fishing off a bridge

popsy09

had a debate with a friend out fishing today he reckons you can fish off any bridge as its a public road and your not trespassing onto club water /private land etc

i said no you cant as your still fishing private water /club water etc but i can see his point , whats peoples opinion on this ??

sorry if its a stupid question but it was a boring days fishing so we had plenty of chat:D

gumbo1

I assume that you and your friend ate both right! If the waters are private/club owned then you would need a permit/licence to fish them! If, for instance, your fishing blessington lake and decide that a bridge is where you want to go from then, so long as ya have the licence and are not interfering with traffic, it would be allowed!!

I could be wrong also!

realrebel

gumbo1 wrote: »

I assume that you and your friend ate both right! If the waters are private/club owned then you would need a permit/licence to fish them! If, for instance, your fishing blessington lake and decide that a bridge is where you want to go from then, so long as ya have the licence and are not interfering with traffic, it would be allowed!!

I could be wrong also!

They fish from the bridges on the river lee and the clubs can't do anything about it, the only thing is they have to land the fish from one side of the bank that's where the fun starts

thekevin4540

realrebel wrote: »

They fish from the bridges on the river lee and the clubs can't do anything about it, the only thing is they have to land the fish from one side of the bank that's where the fun starts

u can fish the anglers bridge no problem but the inicarra u cant fish it becouse the club have both sides and if u go down to land a fish your on there fishing and thay brought a man to court last year over it so id say it depends what bridge ur fishing off

Chopperdog 2

If this is the case why don't you see people fishing off Ham Brodge into the Rodge pool instead of paying for the day ticket??

I don't recommend anyone try it, you wouldn't last too long.

I believe that there is a Bye law mentioned here before prohibiting fishing from a bridge.

Traditional

I cast a large spinner off the bridge in Trim and had a guy with a pitch fork waving it at me as i pulled up a lovely Brown Trout , which i released , i dident wait around as he looked like a deamon on 2 legs .

breghall

good thread.... some clubs think they own every aspect of the river, but i do know that if you went out in a boat/kayak down my river, there is nothing that they can do as they don't own the river only the rights of the bank.... gotta agree with poster above, it's landing them that'll probably cause you the trouble if you go fishing off bridges...

tin79

breghall wrote: »

good thread.... some clubs think they own every aspect of the river, but i do know that if you went out in a boat/kayak down my river, there is nothing that they can do as they don't own the river only the rights of the bank.... gotta agree with poster above, it's landing them that'll probably cause you the trouble if you go fishing off bridges...

Is this a case of access rights or fishing rights?

Our local club recently acquired a new stretch of river and got all fishing rights on that stretch. From having read the documents there is no mention of river banks just fishing rights.

So is it a case of wording where rights to a specific bank are certified?

tin79

breghall wrote: »

good thread.... some clubs think they own every aspect of the river, but i do know that if you went out in a boat/kayak down my river, there is nothing that they can do as they don't own the river only the rights of the bank.... gotta agree with poster above, it's landing them that'll probably cause you the trouble if you go fishing off bridges...

Also yes agree its an interesting thread!

Zzippy

breghall wrote: »

good thread.... some clubs think they own every aspect of the river, but i do know that if you went out in a boat/kayak down my river, there is nothing that they can do as they don't own the river only the rights of the bank.... gotta agree with poster above, it's landing them that'll probably cause you the trouble if you go fishing off bridges...

You're wrong there, fishing rights are nothing to do with where you fish from, and if you don't own the fishing rights or have a permit you are NOT entitled to fish from a boat or kayak. If a club owns the fishing rights on a stretch of river you cannot fish from a boat or a bridge on that stretch without permission from the club, end of.

stylie

You can fish from bridges, a very large drop net should accommodate most fish you encounter. Some clubs have fishing rights so that would block anyone fishing from a kayak but others, generally syndicates just have access to the water through a paid off farmer so I would imagine fishing from a yak provided you didnt cross any private land is legal.

Zzippy

stylie wrote: »

You can fish from bridges, a very large drop net should accommodate most fish you encounter. Some clubs have fishing rights so that would block anyone fishing from a kayak but others, generally syndicates just have access to the water through a paid off farmer so I would imagine fishing from a yak provided you didnt cross any private land is legal.

Please, you're posting incorrect info that could get someone into trouble. Yes, you can fish off a bridge provided you have permission to fish, or the water is public and does not require a permit. If you fish from a yak, you must still have permission to fish - whether a farmer, club or syndicate control the fishing rights, you cannot fish the water, either from the bank, bridge or a boat, without permission. This is the law, and you can be prosecuted for trespass if you ignore it. Fishery officers don't usually enforce fishing rights except on State-controlled fisheries, but clubs/private owners can be appointed waterkeepers and can enforce the law about fishing rights.

Crossing private land is immaterial to the issue of fishing rights. The holders of fishing rights are entitled to cross private land at agreed points for access, or along the riverbank. Not crossing private land does not confer the right to fish in the river.

whelzer

Very good thread - I was always of the opinion that you could fish a river from a boat/canoe (not that that I've done either), ie nobody owns the river just the land which accesses it.

How does the whole fishing rights thing work? How does/did a club or individual acquire Fishing Rights to a given piece of water?

Also is this just rivers or does it apply to lakes as well.

Google is your friend: http://www.fisheriesireland.ie/State-Fisheries/history-of-fishing-rights-in-ireland.html

popsy09

i can see both sides of the argument but i knew it would not be that easy as im sure there would be people fishing off alot of bridges on big rivers

id still like to see what a club member would say to ya if you were on a bridge fishing and he tried to throw ya off the bridge it could get real messy ha

also on the topic of clubs on rivers its nearly impossible to join them that really annoys me too , im 5 mins away from the river lee and i have to go to banteer on a stretch i joined to go fishing but thats for a different thread ha

croo

whelzer wrote: »

ie nobody owns the river just the land which accesses it.

When in Scotland about 20 years ago, fishing one of the big salmon rivers, I queried the question of who owns a river. I was told then that whoever owns the land that the river flows over owns the fishing rights.
When someone buys the fishing rights they are buying the banks and land the river flows over. And that if the flow of the river changed then it was conceivable that rights might change.

Now I accept that is the UK not Ireland but many of our property laws are old British laws so it might be applicable here.

Just thought I would through that into the discussion!

Zzippy

croo wrote: »

When in Scotland about 20 years ago, fishing one of the big salmon rivers, I queried the question of who owns a river. I was told then that whoever owns the land that the river flows over owns the fishing rights.
When someone buys the fishing rights they are buying the banks and land the river flows over. And that if the flow of the river changed then it was conceivable that rights might change.

Now I accept that is the UK not Ireland but many of our property laws are old British laws so it might be applicable here.

Just thought I would through that into the discussion!

We do have the same system of law, but you were told wrong. Fishing rights do not automatically come with ownership of the land. In many cases, vendors held onto fishing rights and did not sell them with the land. This is particularly the case in Ireland, where British landlords held onto sporting and fishing rights when they sold land, and to this day some British lords own significant fishing rights in Ireland. Some fishing rights were acquired by the State, some were sold with the land, and some were retained by the vendor. To further confuse the picture, many deeds were lost when the Four Courts was burned in 1920/21, and it is now impossible to find out who owns fishing rights on certain stretches.

Your source may have confused fishing rights with property rights - usually if you own land along a river the deed will include rights to the bed and soil of the river - this is completely separate from fishing rights.

wexandproud

two different subjects alltogether. clubs and individuals have the fishing rights ,you cannot fish from bridge, access to river banks is a seperate issue. if a club had rights to fish a river , a land owner could refuse permission to cross his land if he so choose.the club would have rights to fish, access is at discretion of land owner. nearly sure there are signs saying no tresspassing on lands along parts of slaney

Zzippy

wexandproud wrote: »

two different subjects alltogether. clubs and individuals have the fishing rights ,you cannot fish from bridge, access to river banks is a seperate issue. if a club had rights to fish a river , a land owner could refuse permission to cross his land if he so choose.the club would have rights to fish, access is at discretion of land owner. nearly sure there are signs saying no tresspassing on lands along parts of slaney

Not true, if you have fishing rights you have the right to access the river along the riverbank, whether this means crossing private land or not. This applies to the first 3 metres of the bank back from the river IIRC. A landowner cannot legally prevent access along the riverbank.

wexandproud

Zzippy wrote: »

Not true, if you have fishing rights you have the right to access the river along the riverbank, whether this means crossing private land or not. This applies to the first 3 metres of the bank back from the river IIRC. A landowner cannot legally prevent access along the riverbank.

i stand corrected

jkchambers

Zzippy wrote: »

Not true, if you have fishing rights you have the right to access the river along the riverbank, whether this means crossing private land or not. This applies to the first 3 metres of the bank back from the river IIRC. A landowner cannot legally prevent access along the riverbank.

Absolutely correct. As far as I remember the owner of the fishing rights has more or less absolute control over the water. I think he could even stop a farmer allowing his cattle into the river to drink.

croo

Zzippy wrote: »

We do have the same system of law, but you were told wrong.

Well, I think I might have been told truth but that things have changed since 20 years ago in the UK and they were never the same in Ireland (even though much other basic laws were).

From here I see that in the UK

Before 2002 fishing rights were what is known as overriding interests. In simple terms this meant that they remained valid even if they did not appear on the title of the land over which they were exercised. That still applied when the land was sold.

So the land and the fishing rights were effectively one and the same ... but even in the UK that is no longer the case.

Here is seems that you are correct in saying

Zzippy wrote: »

Fishing rights do not automatically come with ownership of the land.

Fisheries Ireland has a whole page on the saga.

Fishing rights may be held by individuals or bodies in the same way as land may be held. In Ireland, there are no laws dictating that the ownership of fishing rights may not be severed from that of the bed and soil or the adjoining land, meaning that one person can own the bed and soil and another the fishing rights. Consequently, lands and fishing rights have changed hands sometimes together and sometimes separately

Flysfisher

Zzippy wrote: »

You're wrong there, fishing rights are nothing to do with where you fish from, and if you don't own the fishing rights or have a permit you are NOT entitled to fish from a boat or kayak. If a club owns the fishing rights on a stretch of river you cannot fish from a boat or a bridge on that stretch without permission from the club, end of.

What about the cong river? Below the castle bridge.

croo

From the Fisheries Ireland link I provided earlier

What is a fishing right?
Anywhere a fishery exists in freshwater there is a right to fish or a fishing right. This right is owned by someone, either a private individual or group such as an angling club or the State. The owner of the fishing rights can choose to make the fishing available for public use, either for the payment of a fee or free of charge of permit, this is sometimes referred to as ‘free fishing’ nonetheless it is still essentially ‘private property’.

The Cong, specifically, is covered by at least one bye law also that applies some restriction to fishing...

SeaFields

Can I ask where are these rights specified? Is there a national register of some sort or are they written into deeds if land ownership. How far back do the ownership rights laws go?

jkchambers

SeaFields wrote: »

Can I ask where are these rights specified? Is there a national register of some sort or are they written into deeds if land ownership. How far back do the ownership rights laws go?

Fishing rights ownership can be found in the Land Registry. They dont have a seperate fishing rights section. You have to look up a particular piece of land and it may state whether the landowner actually owns the fishing rights to a water on his land or not. Never looked anything up myself.
Back in the 90`s the Central Fisheries had a special title research section headed by Gerry Collins. At the time there were a lot of grants available under the Tourism Angling Measure (TAM). Before grant work could be carried out on a river or lake permission had to be secured from the owner of the fishing rights. Hence the need to establish who owned the fishing rights. The ownership of most game waters was known a long time before this but a lot of TAM work was carried out on waters where , before TAM, the ownership of the fishing rights was not established. There are still hundreds of lakes around where IFI would not know who owns the fishing rights.

Zzippy

Flysfisher wrote: »

What about the cong river? Below the castle bridge.

Grey area - I have never seen the deeds, so don't know where the fishing rights extend to. Where the river enters Lough Corrib (free fishing) is a matter of debate in the absence of a defined river mouth, hence guys in boats fishing below the bridge and claiming they are fishing Lough Corrib. This has been allowed to continue because the owners have not prosecuted anyone - its a civil matter and up to the owners to prosecute for trespass.

croo wrote: »

From the Fisheries Ireland link I provided earlier



The Cong, specifically, is covered by at least one bye law also that applies some restriction to fishing...

That only specifies when people can fish, nothing to do with fishing off bridges or who owns fishing rights.

croo

Zzippy wrote: »

That only specifies when people can fish, nothing to do with fishing off bridges or who owns fishing rights.

I know I read it... but it does apply restrictions to fishing as I said. My point was there might be more bye-laws.