2013 All Ireland Hurling Semi Final Dublin V Cork

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Rightwing wrote: »

Which team had the bigger support? TV can often be misleading when judging.

Hard to judge with the Hill, but Cork easily outnumbered the Dubs in the stands anyway. I'd say Cork overall, but not by much.

Strange seeing so many Cork fans in Croker after the abysmal showing in the footballers last 2 outings. I wonder why the footballers don't get even half the support the hurlers do.

marco_polo

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

Was at the game, didn't see the first yellow but the second was a definite yellow card. I don't buy into this "the ref should be lenient because it's a close game" craic.

The player on the yellow card has a responsibility to his team not to give the ref a reason to book him again. The ref is there to enforce the rules dispassionately.

All that aside, absolutely cracking game of hurling.

I don't think anyone has argued the second yellow wasn't warranted, but that he probably shouldn't have been on one.

The player should have been more careful though that is true.

Where is hurling going though, a red card every game until it becomes a less physical sport? I am not sure what the problem that they are trying to solve by removing the tools of discretion and common sense from referees.

Rowley Birkin QC

Rightwing wrote: »

Which team had the bigger support? TV can often be misleading when judging.

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Cork 60/40 I reckon

60/40 is about right I reckon. Was surprised at the amount of Dubs there to be honest, great turnout lots of kids and families.

One worrying thing, Dublin had the upper hand throughout the underage Go Games. :P

niallo27

THFC wrote: »

Hard to judge with the Hill, but Cork easily outnumbered the Dubs in the stands anyway. I'd say Cork overall, but not by much.

Strange seeing so many Cork fans in Croker after the abysmal showing in the footballers last 2 outings. I wonder why the footballers don't get even half the support the hurlers do.

Because football is pure ****e for the last 5 years.

MrJoeSoap

Taffy Kat wrote: »

Slightly irrelevant but how did David O'Callaghan come by the nickname Dotsy?

Daithi and Dotsy probably sound quite similar I guess.

Rowley Birkin QC

marco_polo wrote: »

I don't think anyone has argued the second yellow wasn't warranted, but that he probably shouldn't have been on one.

The player should have been more careful though that is true.

Where is hurling going though, a red card every game until it becomes a less physical sport? I am not sure what the problem that they are trying to solve by removing the tools of discretion and common sense from referees.

But the fact of the matter is that he was on that yellow card. What's the ref to do the next time he commits a bookable offence; have a look at the scoreboard to see how close the game is before making a decision?

podmu80

to be fair, the hurlers always get a good following. regardless who wins next week, tickets will like tough to get a hold of.
30,000 tickets already sold in limerick for next sunday apparently.

The_Kew_Tour

THFC wrote: »

Hard to judge with the Hill, but Cork easily outnumbered the Dubs in the stands anyway. I'd say Cork overall, but not by much.

Strange seeing so many Cork fans in Croker after the abysmal showing in the footballers last 2 outings. I wonder why the footballers don't get even half the support the hurlers do.

always been that way. added in to fact we have been in semi or or better every year since 2002(bar 2011)

Most football fans are from west Cork which takes nearly 2 hours just to get ou of Cork County for some on way to Dublin.

Im not denying football support should be better, but its expensive going up every weekend.

MrJoeSoap

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

But the fact of the matter is that he was on that yellow card. What's the ref to do the next time he commits a bookable offence; have a look at the scoreboard to see how close the game is before making a decision?

The problem doesn't lie with the second yellow card, it lies with the first. He probably deserved the second yellow, if you take it on it's own, but the first yellow left him having to hold back for 68 or 69 minutes for what was a nothing foul, if even a foul.

I don't think the ref had much choice, could have acted with common sense if he had seen a replay of the first yellow (doubt it) but gave the red and that was that.

The first yellow is the issue, for me.

niallo27

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

But the fact of the matter is that he was on that yellow card. What's the ref to do the next time he commits a bookable offence; have a look at the scoreboard to see how close the game is before making a decision?

Maybe he should think was it a dangerous tackle. Did he injure the player, did he go out to injure the player, did he stop a goal scoring opportunity. Does he deserve to be sent off for the challenge. Our some common sense which is another name for it.

The_Kew_Tour

Just got text from my dad who was at the game, he got a ticket off mate who is a Dub so he was in Dublin end. Surrounded by Dubs, but once full time whistle went he told me that about 20 Dublin supporters either shook hands with him or wished Cork well in final.

Hurling fans at there best. Well done Dublin supporters.

Taffy Kat

Taffy Kat wrote: »

Slightly irrelevant but how did David O'Callaghan come by the nickname Dotsy?

Im guessing that perhaps it evolves from the Irish spelling of David which is Daithí. Daithí --> Dotty --> Dotsy ????

roshje

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Just got text from my dad who was at the game, he got a ticket off mate who is a Dub so he was in Dublin end. Surrounded by Dubs, but once full time whistle went he told me that about 20 Dublin supporters either shook hands with him or wished Cork well in final.

Hurling fans at there best. Well done Dublin supporters.

yea thats the way fans should be well done dubs supporters

fta93

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Just got text from my dad who was at the game, he got a ticket off mate who is a Dub so he was in Dublin end. Surrounded by Dubs, but once full time whistle went he told me that about 20 Dublin supporters either shook hands with him or wished Cork well in final.

Hurling fans at there best. Well done Dublin supporters.

Cork fans were a good match in the hill. Good tit for tat atmosphere. Gracious in victory afterwards too. Some bizarre choice of flags from the Cork fans, dare I ask?!

Rowley Birkin QC

niallo27 wrote: »

Maybe he should think was it a dangerous tackle. Did he injure the player, did he go out to injure the player, did he stop a goal scoring opportunity. Does he deserve to be sent off for the challenge. Our some common sense which is another name for it.

Ah here. It was a shoulder charge to the chest. The player was, rightly or wrongly, on a yellow card before making the committing the foul. The ref followed the rules, booked the player and showed the red.

The_Kew_Tour

fta93 wrote: »

Cork fans were a good match in the hill. Good tit for tat atmosphere. Gracious in victory afterwards too. Some bizarre choice of flags from the Cork fans, dare I ask?!

we have always had bizarre flags..its like league of nations and warfare ha...good colour though.

Rightwing

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

The problem doesn't lie with the second yellow card, it lies with the first. He probably deserved the second yellow, if you take it on it's own, but the first yellow left him having to hold back for 68 or 69 minutes for what was a nothing foul, if even a foul.

I don't think the ref had much choice, could have acted with common sense if he had seen a replay of the first yellow (doubt it) but gave the red and that was that.

The first yellow is the issue, for me.

the 1st yellow was borderline,,,,,but he got it, Like shefflin the last day, he should have used his head from then on. If the 2nd yellow was the borderline one, you could feel sorry for him.

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Just got text from my dad who was at the game, he got a ticket off mate who is a Dub so he was in Dublin end. Surrounded by Dubs, but once full time whistle went he told me that about 20 Dublin supporters either shook hands with him or wished Cork well in final.

Hurling fans at there best. Well done Dublin supporters.

A far cry from the 'who ar ya' morons that go to English football games. The last time i went to an Arsenal game, the Arsenal fans were more bothered with the fact that the Sunderland fans were daring to sing 'Niall Quinn's disco pants' for their team in their stadium rather then the fact that their own players couldnt score on the pitch. Ended up a dour 0-0 draw with a tedious Punch and Judy between both sets of 'fans'

fta93

fta93 wrote: »

Cork fans were a good match in the hill. Good tit for tat atmosphere. Gracious in victory afterwards too. Some bizarre choice of flags from the Cork fans, dare I ask?!

Ha ha the old communist Yugoslavia and the confederate American flag Even Pa Cronin has the confederate flag on his helmet for some reason.

Taffy Kat

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Daithi and Dotsy probably sound quite similar I guess.

Makes sense. Is Daithi the only Irish version of David? There's quite a few in Welsh.

Sorry for the off topic, it just always surprised me that he had a nickname which, unless I'm very mistaken, always sounds feminine in my head.

marco_polo

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

But the fact of the matter is that he was on that yellow card. What's the ref to do the next time he commits a bookable offence; have a look at the scoreboard to see how close the game is before making a decision?

I have no problem with the second one, like I said I though the first one was very close to being a fair shoulder and there was certainly no intent to injure his opponent. Maybe note the name, but there no certainly no need to be dishing out yellow cards for that sort of challenge. Only in the most pedantic of rulebook interpretations of the rulebook could possibly be called it a 'frontal charge'.

Should players not even try shoulder unless you are 110% certain you won't mistime it slightly.

Rightwing wrote: »

the 1st yellow was borderline,,,,,but he got it, Like shefflin the last day, he should have used his head from then on. If the 2nd yellow was the borderline one, you could feel sorry for him.

My problem is with the borderline yellows though

Rightwing

Taffy Kat wrote: »

Makes sense. Is Daithi the only Irish version of David? There's quite a few in Welsh.

Sorry for the off topic, it just always surprised me that he had a nickname which, unless I'm very mistaken, always sounds feminine in my head.

what height is he ? if he's a midget it could be dot..sy

Hidalgo

niallo27 wrote: »

Maybe he should think was it a dangerous tackle. Did he injure the player, did he go out to injure the player, did he stop a goal scoring opportunity. Does he deserve to be sent off for the challenge. Our some common sense which is another name for it.

The problem with common sense is that its not that common.
Everyone calls for it, but one refs idea of using common sense could be different than the next. I assume that the rule makers want everything locked in and written down, make application of the rules a science rather than a theory.

Not saying I agree, just what I think those that make the rules are aiming for.

Pete_Cavan

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

The problem doesn't lie with the second yellow card, it lies with the first. He probably deserved the second yellow, if you take it on it's own, but the first yellow left him having to hold back for 68 or 69 minutes for what was a nothing foul, if even a foul.

I don't think the ref had much choice, could have acted with common sense if he had seen a replay of the first yellow (doubt it) but gave the red and that was that.

The first yellow is the issue, for me.

Yeah but if the ref felt it was a yellow card offense then he has to give him a yellow - whats the alternative; no yellow cards in the first 10 minutes? no second yellows for anyone who gets a yellow in the first 10 minutes? Once O'Dwyer was on a yellow, he had to go once he committed a second yellow offence. The common sense agument is nonsense and has the benefit of hindsight which a ref doesnt have. It could be argued the ref used "common sense" not sending Rushe off (because Dublin didnt deserve to loss two players) but people are still not happy.

MrJoeSoap

Rightwing wrote: »

the 1st yellow was borderline

Don't really agree. Borderline foul, not borderline yellow.

Rightwing wrote: »

,,,,,but he got it, Like shefflin the last day, he should have used his head from then on.

Of course you are correct.

Rightwing wrote: »

If the 2nd yellow was the borderline one, you could feel sorry for him.

I'll leave this alone.

Red Crow

Thought Dublin were the better team myself. Well done to Cork though. Some lovely hurling on display today.

Stereomaniac

As far as I know, Daithi is the most common version of David that we have in the Irish language. I will stand corrected on that, and I am sure there are other less common ones also.

MrJoeSoap

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Yeah but if the ref felt it was a yellow card offense then he has to give him a yellow - whats the alternative; no yellow cards in the first 10 minutes? no second yellows for anyone who gets a yellow in the first 10 minutes? Once O'Dwyer was on a yellow, he had to go once he committed a second yellow offence. The common sense agument is nonsense and has the benefit of hindsight which a ref doesnt have. It could be argued the ref used "common sense" not sending Rushe off (because Dublin didnt deserve to loss two players) but people are still not happy.

I've already said that Rushe should have walked. What more do you want? I though O'Dwyer's red card was harsh and nothing in the world will change my mind on that.

marco_polo

Hidalgo wrote: »

The problem with common sense is that its not that common.
Everyone calls for it, but one refs idea of using common sense could be different than the next. I assume that the rule makers want everything locked in and written down, make application of the rules a science rather than a theory.

Not saying I agree, just what I think those that make the rules are aiming for.

I definitely agree that the other extreme of complete inconsistency between different refs, and even the same ref on different days, is just as bad.

I do think they might have gone too far in the other direction though.

Hidalgo

Deleted User wrote: »

A far cry from the 'who ar ya' morons that go to English football games. The last time i went to an Arsenal game, the Arsenal fans were more bothered with the fact that the Sunderland fans were daring to sing 'Niall Quinn's disco pants' for their team in their stadium rather then the fact that their own players couldnt score on the pitch. Ended up a dour 0-0 draw with a tedious Punch and Judy between both sets of 'fans'

That's cos its the bantz, innit it bruv :cool:

marco_polo

Rightwing wrote: »

the 1st yellow was borderline,,,,,but he got it, Like shefflin the last day, he should have used his head from then on. If the 2nd yellow was the borderline one, you could feel sorry for him.

I actually suspect if the fouls were in reverse order he wouldn't have gotten the second yellow,which is what really annoys me about it (And I'm a neutral) .

Pete_Cavan

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

I've already said that Rushe should have walked. What more do you want? I though O'Dwyer's red card was harsh and nothing in the world will change my mind on that.

I dont want anything more, you are the one calling for "common sense" although that is impossible to define in these situations. Dublin got a man sent off, and there can be no doubt they deserved to loss a man (Rushe). The wrong man walked but I am suggesting the ref used "common sense" not to send off a second Dublin player. What more do you want?

The_Kew_Tour

Mountainlad

washman3 wrote: »

Corks All-Ireland to lose now.!
With Brian Murphy back in the team they will improve even more.
In four weeks time we might be saying that today's game was the real final.

They're not that good. Certainly are good, but not that good.

MrJoeSoap

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

What more do you want?

An All-Ireland Final.

Ignore me ...

from_atozinc

Mountainlad wrote: »

They're not that good. Certainly are good, but not that good.

Ah they are. Some of the skill level and points today were unreal

Best game I've seen in a while.

awec

Thought either team could win today, but up until the sending off I thought Dublin looked the more likely winners and were starting to get on top of Cork. Sending off seemed to reverse that.

Good, entertaining game though.

the kelt

THFC wrote: »

Just on the train on the way home, thought I'd give my 2 cents.

Both teams were excellent today, I don't think either manager managed to get their defensive game plan really working, which was good to see. Scores came very easily, which was great as a spectacle. I thought Dublin were marginally the better side overall, and they could've easily gotten a second goal. Regarding the red card, not many people really knew what to make of it, but it seemed a bit harsh. Needless to say it completely changed the game. I thought the ref was quite poor today tbh, and that was also the general consensus where I was sitting, from Cork and Dublin fans alike.

Regarding good performances, I thought Liam Rushe was excellent. He was everywhere, and didn't really put a foot wrong. I didn't really see what he did towards the end though. Keaney and Sutcliffe were there usual selves. Also, Durkin came on and played a bilnder. On the Cork side, Horgan was immense. He was scoring at his ease. The defence in general were quite good in the second half, but the extra man played a huge part obviously. Lehane and Luke O' F were also quite good today, and Cronin seemed to be popping up everywhere in the second half.

I was hoping Dublin would go all the way in hurling, it would've done the sport the world of good. Would also have liked to see Keaney especially rewarded, must have been hard for him to see the footballers pick up Sam in what I think was his first year off the panel.

All in all a great game, those who went got their money's worth. It's just a pity the main talking point is the referee yet again.

Just wondering as a matter of interest why is there this consensus that Dublin winning a hurling All Ireland will do wonders for the sport?

They already get sizeable funds compared to others. To be honest outside of Tipp, Kilkenny and Cork any other hurling county apart from Dublin winning would do more for the game of hurling as they struggle to keep pace with those 3 and compete with the strong financial backing Dublin already have.

I'm not having a go at Dublin here, they aren't there to turn down those funds and have made great use of them but other counties are struggling hurling and money wise and an all Ireland would do a lot more for these counties.

Amprodude

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Another game where the ref determined the outcome.

Gutted for Dublin, I felt they were the better team on the day and had the momentum.....don'.t believe the sending off was fair at all.

Cork extremely fortunate to be in an all-ireland final in my book. Second game in a row that the ref has done them a massive favour. The momentum was with Dublin and the decision completely turned the game.

As a neutral, would much rather see Dublin in the final, just to have someone two teams that aren't from the old guard contesting it. Makes the final much less interesting.

R o Dwyer witht two yellows what do you expect? And Dublin lucky not to have another player sent off with a wild swing on Horgan.

The_Kew_Tour

the kelt wrote: »

Just wondering as a matter of interest why is there this consensus that Dublin winning a hurling All Ireland will do wonders for the sport?

I have to agree. Limerick are a team who have not won a AI since 1973 in senior code.

Dublin will only get stronger for number of reasons others may not.

Amprodude

Mountainlad wrote: »

They're not that good. Certainly are good, but not that good.

I know you are from Waterford and yous are a team that have bottled chances in the past. You can only beat whose in front of you and we beat Dublin by 5 points. Write off Cork at your peril but no team will like facing us in final thats for sure.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

the kelt wrote: »

Just wondering as a matter of interest why is there this consensus that Dublin winning a hurling All Ireland will do wonders for the sport?

They already get sizeable funds compared to others. To be honest outside of Tipp, Kilkenny and Cork any other hurling county apart from Dublin winning would do more for the game of hurling as they struggle to keep pace with those 3 and compete with the strong financial backing Dublin already have.

I'm not having a go at Dublin here, they aren't there to turn down those funds and have made great use of them but other counties are struggling hurling and money wise and an all Ireland would do a lot more for these counties.

For the simple reason that it will bring Liam outside of a county to somewhere where hurling isn't the predominant code, or even close to it. I know they have a massive population, but I can't imagine Dublin having a much bigger player pick that the likes of Galway, Kilkenny, Cork and Limerick. It would also bring hurling into the limelights in a county of a million people, encouraging far more people to pick up a hurl than if it was won in another county.

I started hurling myself last year on the back of Galway just reaching the final (needless to say my skill level is terrible compared to those who have been playing since they were young). I can only imagine the amount of people that would start playing if Dublin won Liam, and that's really what you want, as many people playing the game as possible. Personally I'd love to see as many counties compete for Liam as counties that compete for Sam.

MrJoeSoap

Two fantastic managers, both very honest and gracious in victory and defeat.

http://www.tv3.ie/news_sub_page.php?video_id=67051&locID=1.2.888

niallo27

Amprodude wrote: »

I know you are from Waterford and yous are a team that have bottled chances in the past. You can only beat whose in front of you and we beat Dublin by 5 points. Write off Cork at your peril but no team will like facing us thats for sure.

No one is writing off cork we are just replying to posts saying that today was the real final and it's corks to lose now.

almostover

I agree! The team that need an Liam Mac the most is Limerick. However seeing as my native Cork are now in the final I think we need it the most;)

Just to give my 2 cents on the ref's performance today: He made 2 poor decisions today, ROD's first yellow was a frontal challenge but a ticking would have sufficed, Liam Rushe should have walked the line regardless of what happened previous to that. Striking with the hurley is a sending off, full stop. Other than that he applied the rules well, allowed advantage very sensibly one round and Dublin profited with a good point. I suppose if one was to apply to rules strictly then ROD did commit 2 frontal challenges which both warrant a yellow card each. Fine lines!

Many hurling people believe that referees are taking the 'manliness' out of the game by giving out soft yellows. The rules are there for a reason though, to protect the players and the game. The same 2 challenges in football, under the letter of the law, would have resulted in 2 yellows too. And at the end of the day I don't, as a fan, watch hurling for the manliness of it. I watch it so see things like the exceptional aerial ability of Conal Keaney, the electric pace of David Treacy, the artistry of Patrick Horgan and the deft touch of Conor Lehane. Those are the attributes of hurling that sets it apart from all other sports in the world and what need to be nurtured. Today's game was a showcase for all that is good about hurling and hopefully we will see all these skills on show in the final. Corcaigh Abú

MrJoeSoap

almostover wrote: »

And at the end of the day I don't, as a fan, watch hurling for the manliness of it.

I don't watch it solely for the hits, but they help.

Junior D

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I dont want anything more, you are the one calling for "common sense" although that is impossible to define in these situations. Dublin got a man sent off, and there can be no doubt they deserved to loss a man (Rushe). The wrong man walked but I am suggesting the ref used "common sense" not to send off a second Dublin player. What more do you want?

2 wrongs don't make a right

O' Dywer went off at a more pivotal point in the game, just when the Dubs were starting to get on top.
If he hadn't of had to go off then, the game would've stayed pretty even IMO and Rushe mightn't have lashed out in frustration like he did.

almostover

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

I don't watch it solely for the hits, but they help.

Maybe the Dublin Bluetits will win the Stanley Cup next season so

Sorry I just couldn't resist

the kelt

THFC wrote: »

For the simple reason that it will bring Liam outside of a county to somewhere where hurling isn't the predominant code, or even close to it. I know they have a massive population, but I can't imagine Dublin having a much bigger player pick that the likes of Galway, Kilkenny, Cork and Limerick. It would also bring hurling into the limelights in a county of a million people, encouraging far more people to pick up a hurl than if it was won in another county.

I started hurling myself last year on the back of Galway just reaching the final (needless to say my skill level is terrible compared to those who have been playing since they were young). I can only imagine the amount of people that would start playing if Dublin won Liam, and that's really what you want, as many people playing the game as possible. Personally I'd love to see as many counties compete for Liam as counties that compete for Sam.

But to be honest hurling is already big in Dublin and has been helped by the investment the GAA have already made. Trust me even without an All Ireland hurling will continue to prosper in Dublin whereas other counties are struggling bith for funds and success.

I lived in Dublin up until 6 years ago and I noticed in my last few years living there how big hurling had got. It was if every kid in Dublin had a hurl all of a sudden and that's literally what happened. Every kid had a hurl, ye wold se the kids in the parks all hurling where before they would be kicking a soccer ball. I said it back then that Dublin would be a force in hurling and it's come to pass.

A win for any of the other counties apart from Tipp, Cork and Kilkenny and Dublin to a lesser extent will do a lot more for hurling to be honest. Dublin have the correct set up and will be fine but other hurling counties are seriously struggling, something the GAA have overlooked in my opinion.

MrJoeSoap

almostover wrote: »

Maybe the Dublin Bluetits will win the Stanley Cup next season so

Sorry I just couldn't resist

Resist what? :pac: