Gaelforce West - less than 2 weeks to go...

RenegadeDisco

Can't believe the winning time, incredible. I'd love to see a video of the lead group on Crough Patrick.

Tough day. Came in under 7 hours. Did the canoe in under 10min but it killed my hips, probably my lack of flexibility?

,

Heisenberg1

Mountain Rescue wrote: »

Gael force is a tough race even with training,your talking anywhere from 4 to 11hours,only you can really tell if your fit enough to attempt it,but my advice is I wouldn't run a marathon without proper training likewise I wouldn't do Gael force without some proper training,

woody1 wrote: »

the first run is tough.. hard on the legs, the climb up the mountain isnt overly easy either.. youl be as long ( or longer ) running and walking as you will be cycling

BUT it depends on what you want to do.. if your happy to take it very easy , you could get thru it ok, or it could be pure torture , how does the idea of being on the go for 6-7 hours or more sit with you

its very hard to know how a particular individual is going to find it..

I decided too do it in the end the run I was the easiest part for me after all. I

done the Kayak in just over 10mins. The bike was fine but the last 5km to

Croagh Patrick was bad the wind and rain was dreadful I cramped up 1km from

the bike end I was completely locked up I taught it was over then, but I

struggled on then I got to Croagh Patrick I was feeling the burn. On some parts

of it was I nearly crawling up and at one point I said that's it but kept going thanks

to the other racers encouragement I went up and down in 2 hours the weather

was really bad going up. The bike to the end was ok but 2km in the road was really

bad and I had to walk it. I crossed the finish line officially in 7hr 45mins but I

stopped at the bike transition for over 15mins to take on supplies biggest regret

was not having food with me at the kayak I was waiting for over an hour. I am

delighted with the time after doing zero training. I can't wait to do it next year and next time I will train.

macadam

6:35 for me, I was aiming for under 7hrs I broke it down as 1st run kayak run 2:15 got to Delphi in 2:33 bike I was aiming for 2hrs 2:00 the mountain mentally nearly broke me thought the summit would never come couldn't see a thing up there 0:55 the descent was a bit frightening the mountain was full of competitors and pilgrims 3 of us decided to cut across the side off the trail great choice soft ground and halved the distance to the foot 0:35, the best comment I heard up there was " the next one of these events I do it'll be in holland " classic
The final cycle and run took me 0:50mins th figures are approx from my garmin the run in was definitely longer than 1 klm what s place to put two fallen trees
Great event I'll definitely be back for my 2nd go at this and hope with a bit more training and less injuries to knock at least 30mind off my time
One thing I did learn was there is no need for a hydration pack phone or keys of the car I will be better prepared and equipped next time, the after party was mighty made great friends with people from all over the world even Australia

woody1

5.43 was going great without killing myself until the mountain, it broke me. Reckon the wind on the bog road cycle drained the legs altogether, felt fine once I was down again... tough race. Still stiff and sore..

Peterx

Great race. A few of the recent usual suspects were missing but they were ably replaced by new suspects with Jerry O'Sullivan obviously the standout "new" guy.
Dessie Duffy = savage = winner is really the story of the race. He was 4th two years and then 3rd last year and he is a good racer and took on board the lessons of letting lads sit on his very impressive wheel.
He improved his first run considerably to get to the Delphi bike transition with only 3 good runners ahead of him. None of those three were able to stay with his power on the bike and Dessie just kept trucking to the finish with a very strong climb of Croagh Patrick. Class act.
In terms of having a pure straight run race the recent standard of having the use of 30 single boats for the first 30 to the kayaks was dropped this year and so we had the unfortunate situation of the first few going in singles and then the stragglers, including me, getting doubles. Not really fair on the fastest runners and also not something I was aware of as I was sitting in a double waiting on a partner for over a minute without having availed of a timeout. That was nothing compared to Jerry O'Sullivan battling with a stubby single as he watched in massive frustration as we sailed past him in doubles, despite having had easier first runs. It was the only big negative of a massively positive day of exciting racing.
Eanna Cunnane and his kayak partner made great time too across the Fjord.
Into Delphi and the minor lottery of where your bike was placed in the field was a minor blip in terms of a straight run race. Ideally we should enter the field from the left and exit from the right and then everyone runs the same distance but we entered and exited from the same entrance so luckily for me my bike was near the entrance. Another potential 30 second loss there if your bike was down the far end. These are all little things but apart from Dessie and his seven minute lead the rest of us were having a close race and 30 seconds would mean the difference between getting on a good group on the bike and having to work on your own out the back.
So Jerry, myself, Paul, Ciaran were together on bike and not really working well together. It took us ages to catch Barry Cronin and then 5 of us were not really working well together and then Ciaran's calf exploded in cramp and we lost the best biker in the group. It took us ages to catch Peter Crombie, who was nearly waiting for us he looked back so often. Through the rougher sections of the road into the headwind and the group whittled down to Jerry, Peter and myself. The two Peters got a few seconds on Jerry and nearly caught one of the 3 early leaders, Barry Minnock, at the start of the big Croagh Patrick run which essentially left 4 of us in 4th place. I went up as best I could but Jerry had a very strong climb and was 2nd to the top with myself in 3rd. Dessie was descending with a smile about 5 minutes clear at this point. I came back to Jerry on the rough cone descent and then he stuck to me back to the bike, I think I might have had a few seconds lead which essentially I held to the finish with a steady cycle down the Skelp gaining a few more seconds as opposed to the kamikazi traverse of other years chasing/being chased my Padraig Marrey.
The new finish in Westport is much better, more sheltered, warmer, better for supporters and the town itself hopefully.
So thanks to all at Gaelforce and I really do think they put on a brilliant show. There is so much organising in an A to B race on rural roads for 1600 competitors. The change I would like tomake is have it compulsory for everyone to use the zig-zag path on Croagh Patrick. Then everyone covers the same distance, if people get in trouble they are likely to get help quickly as opposed to if they collapse in some random place on the flank of the hill.

tldr - Dessie Duffy ran a great race and won easily. The rest of us (6 lads) had a great tussle for the minor places.

Paddigol

Great report Peter.

My fourth time running it and I have to say I enjoyed the challenging weather (which got a lot more challenging for those in the later waves). Three of the last four years (I missed 2012) have had either perfect racing weather or lovely sunshine. I passed a lot of people on the fire road up to Croagh Patrick; I'm not sure of their experience of GFW, but mine definitely helped prepare me mentally for what I found was the toughest section of the race the first year I did it. I'm sure the cross wind added to that misery for a lot of people. I just spun a nice low gear all the way up while others seemed to be murdering themselves in a higher one.

Re the kayaks - that does seem a bit of a boo-boo. It was actually something I was wondering prior to the race, hence my query a couple of pages back. This is my first year running in the first wave, so I wanted to be prepared for whatever the situation was at the transition. As it happened, running in around 35th place, I got timed out and partnered up in a double as per previous years. You seemed to get the worst of both worlds here. It's definitely something that needs to be looked at for the top 10/15 in the race.

Good point about the bike transition set up too. Perhaps more of an easier mistake to make from the organisers point of view, but valid all the same. Just wondering which section of the course you mean when you say the zig-zag part?

The finish was much tougher than previous years, but definitely added to the race and gave competitors a final chance (missing in the previous set up imo) to make up places/ time depending. Didn't enjoy the walk back to the bike pick-up though!

Looking forward to next year, and trying to get in under 4hrs.

Peterx

Paddigol wrote: »

Just wondering which section of the course you mean when you say the zig-zag part?

The finish was much tougher than previous years, but definitely added to the race and gave competitors a final chance (missing in the previous set up imo) to make up places/ time depending. Didn't enjoy the walk back to the bike pick-up though!

Looking forward to next year, and trying to get in under 4hrs.

Well done Paddigol. I meant the zig zag path on the way up and down Croagh Patrick.

Heisenberg1

Paddigol wrote: »

Great report Peter.

My fourth time running it and I have to say I enjoyed the challenging weather (which got a lot more challenging for those in the later waves). Three of the last four years (I missed 2012) have had either perfect racing weather or lovely sunshine. I passed a lot of people on the fire road up to Croagh Patrick; I'm not sure of their experience of GFW, but mine definitely helped prepare me mentally for what I found was the toughest section of the race the first year I did it. I'm sure the cross wind added to that misery for a lot of people. I just spun a nice low gear all the way up while others seemed to be murdering themselves in a higher one.

Re the kayaks - that does seem a bit of a boo-boo. It was actually something I was wondering prior to the race, hence my query a couple of pages back. This is my first year running in the first wave, so I wanted to be prepared for whatever the situation was at the transition. As it happened, running in around 35th place, I got timed out and partnered up in a double as per previous years. You seemed to get the worst of both worlds here. It's definitely something that needs to be looked at for the top 10/15 in the race.

Good point about the bike transition set up too. Perhaps more of an easier mistake to make from the organisers point of view, but valid all the same. Just wondering which section of the course you mean when you say the zig-zag part?

The finish was much tougher than previous years, but definitely added to the race and gave competitors a final chance (missing in the previous set up imo) to make up places/ time depending. Didn't enjoy the walk back to the bike pick-up though!

Looking forward to next year, and trying to get in under 4hrs.

Wow that's an excellent time. I was in wave 5 and weather going up wind and rain was bad. I'm curious to know how the elites in the race descend is there a secret path they use:D? I found some sections dangerous I was nearly at a crawl never mind running it. It was a great day and very well organised I can't wait until next year.

macadam

As this was my 1st GFW and I was never up the Reek I found it really tough with the wind, there also was a lot of Pilgrims climbing that side Saturday which slowed me down anyway, fair dues to them women and men in there 70s and children as young as 8 or so, would it not be better to close that side for the competitors only.
I really enjoyed my first time had a lot of injuries since last september it was a tough challenge as it is meant to be. Im already looking forward to next year and I aim to knock at least 35 mins off my time.

Excuseless

macadam wrote: »

there also was a lot of Pilgrims climbing that side Saturday which slowed me down anyway, fair dues to them women and men in there 70s and children as young as 8 or so, would it not be better to close that side for the competitors only.

This has always been an issue of contention for the event but in reality you can't shut off this type of mountain for a race given that folk travel widely to get there and do the trek to the top for whatever personal reason :-)

In the race there were a super performance by Dessie D in particular up front.

Fast runners put it up to him but he had a good race plan (Primarily not letting himself get used on the bike as he was last year!) but his ascent on the reek and descent show how well he has improved from last year.

PeterX performed to the top of his current form as usual and was a good 2nd despite some lack of top end fitness with recent knee injury and Jerry O Sullivan showed he is a force to be reckoned with after early season cramp issues in the longer races.

Super tussle saw Moire O Sullivan come through at the mountain summit and claim a great win over former champ Emma Donlon in ladies race.

Thought the new finish was great in terms of facilities for the competitors though some later finishers in particular had a tough time of it getting back to collect bikes when rain came down.

There were some significant losses in positions towards the end with some early "bolters" paying the price for their pace and efforts.
Personally did my usual start steady and try to pick up from the reek home.
I was happy enough in the end to break the 4 hours after bad cramp from early on in the bike stage which meant that I was unable to get in with a group as I usually do :mad:
Lots of fast new fellas on the scene to keep us all honest

BeBetter

Great race as always, there's something about that course. It has a bit of everything in there and the straight line kayak adds more authenticity to it as a valid part of the race. The new finish line I could take or leave but it definitely is more sheltered. The final run I actually like surprisingly! Agree 100% with Peter on the kayaks. Was a mess when I got there right behind Jerry & Co. I had assumed it would be singles but I was sent to a double & had to wait while others were pulling away from me. Eventually got called up to a single. The point is made now tho so I won't go on about it. One other point that really bothered me tho is that I didn't realise there was an option of a timeout at the kayaks in the first wave?? I didn't get one despite being left waiting & now my finish position has dropped because another competitor in the 1st wave had nearly 3 mins knocked off his race time as a time out? So now the guy listed in the results ahead of me actually finished 2 places behind me and has even knocked the guy that finished after me out of the top 10! My result was the best I ever got, 5 years ago I was 797th!! So it's really important to me and it seems really unfair to hand someone free time, or am I missing something here and should I wipe my eyes??!

Aside from that well done to Dessie, Peter & Jerry. Tough men no doubt, and good guys to boot, I just couldn't keep with them. But I'm happy enough with my days work cos the fact that I haven't been able to touch my calves for the last 3 days tells me I gave it everything! And yet again GFW teaches me something - make sure your legs are as loose as possible coming into the race. If there are knots in there that course will find every single one of them. Let's hope the pain fades soon so I can start working out the massive knots ahead of Achill!

Peterx

Bear with me, I have been musing.

The splits would suggest a lot of lads went out too hard and faded badly on Croagh Patrick. This always happens though so maybe 2.5 hours steady effort is just what most people are trained for.

Equipment - The winner by 7 minutes, Dessie Duffy, changed his shoes for proper bike shoes, made the very most of his cycling strength and arrived at Croagh Patrick with his calves in better shape than all those lads wearing floppy runners.

Makes you think about the wisdom of wearing runners all day. For steeper races in Wicklow I would change shoes. For Achill ROAR I would definitely change shoes and notwithstanding Dessie's shoe change I would still probably wear runners all day in Gaelforce although that 4km into the wind on the bogroad could benefit from a pair of spd's.

Tactics - This often boils down to how hard you go out on the first run. That in itself depends on how badly you need to get out on the bike ahead of the good bikers. Getting in a strong group on the bike can deliver you to the mountain run at the same time as a faster runner who has got there on his own, and in better shape than him.

It's a hill runners race. Dessie did brilliantly.

Paddigol

Great insight there Peter.

What's the etiquette in the bike section of "adventure" races such as GFW? I know in triathlons drafting is very much a no-no... how do groups work together in GFW? Similar to breakaways in pro cycling with everyone taking their turn at the front?

I was pretty much on my own for the entire cycle - not quick enough to get to the bikes with the top 20 - and spent most of it playing catch up. I must have passed about 10 competitors from just before the fire road up to CP.

I'm just not quite there yet in terms of trying to stay with the top 20 from the gun. Lots of areas to improve, and tactics to be ironed out.

Maybe next year!

Enduro

Paddigol wrote: »

What's the etiquette in the bike section of "adventure" races such as GFW? I know in triathlons drafting is very much a no-no... how do groups work together in GFW? Similar to breakaways in pro cycling with everyone taking their turn at the front?

Usually the only rule is to obey the rules of the road and stick to the designated course. After that it's up to yourself. There are no drafting rules, and no marshals to enforce any rules. Any working together is up to the individuals involved to sort out amongst themselves (or not!).

In an actual adventure race the best teams will work together on road sections in a proper pace line.

nerraw1111

Re the time outs.

Elites don’t get a time out according to the FAQ, so anyone going off in the first wave should not have received one.

"ELITES - if you are in the elite category you will not get a time out or have the choice of a timeout at the kayak section.
There’s also this on the website:

“Remember if you beat a winning time but you are not in the elite wave you will not be placed 1st, 2nd or 3rd in your category.”

Sounds like it was a great race. I’ve done it 3 or 4 times now and yet to feel like I cracked it.

Peterx

Paddigol wrote: »

Great insight there Peter.

What's the etiquette in the bike section of "adventure" races such as GFW? I know in triathlons drafting is very much a no-no... how do groups work together in GFW? Similar to breakaways in pro cycling with everyone taking their turn at the front?

Drafting is allowed and so makes total sense. It gets everyone in the group to the mountain quicker and with less effort.

The effort part can get trickier, for various reasons

1 - Inexperience: many lads in multisport or adveenture races do not know how to ride their bikes effectively in a group and either leave gaps open or tear off the front too hard when it's their turn at the front

2 - Cute hoorism: lads who have watched too much Tour de France on TG4 don't want to work and will either sit on the back or soft pedal when it's their turn on the front. Now this is a perfectly legitimate tactic but can cause frustration to the other lads in the group and one I usually try to avoid.

3 - Negativity: A strong biker who knows a lad in the group is a much better runner might not have the commitment to work for the common good of the group knowing said runner will drop him on the hill.

Notwithstanding Enduro's gentle ribbing of my favourite sport I don't actually believe that "real" adventure racers always work together. Tactics have to dictate that sometimes not working together is better, no matter what the length of the race. See points 2 and 3 above.

Enduro

Peterx wrote: »

Notwithstanding Enduro's gentle ribbing of my favourite sport I don't actually believe that "real" adventure racers always work together. Tactics have to dictate that sometimes not working together is better, no matter what the length of the race. See points 2 and 3 above.

Just to be sure we're talking about the same thing (:)), I'll just clarify...

In a real adventure race you'll generally be racing as part of a team (usually a mixed gender team of 4). The good teams will ensure to maximise their collective speed on any (hopefully rare) road sections of cycle legs by working together in an organised pace line (Not necessarily in a symetric way, quite often one or two stronger cyclists will pace the weaker team members through for example). That's got nothing to do with the length of the race. That's just effective teamwork. Your individual performance means nothing... you're competing as a team, so there is nothing to be gained by not working together even if (well, especially really), you happen to be by far the strongest cyclist on the team. Of course not all teams work together, which is why I said that the good ones usually do!

Of course in the multisports races there are no teams (from a ranking perspective at least), so it's a different ballgame altogether, and all those interesting tactics (and potential counter tactics) you outlined come in to play. A very different mindset is required.

Jaysus Peter, it's been ages since we've raced together! Watching the Iterra tracking recently brought back memories of an interesting 24 hours in Snowdonia

Peterx

Enduro wrote: »

Just to be sure we're talking about the same thing (:)), I'll just clarify...

In a real adventure race .........

Yes, I meant different teams of four working together - for instance in a paceline of 8 or 12 people, 2 or 3 teams. I hope and presume that within a team of four everyone works together!

I have often thought that Welsh format would be the ideal format as a stepping stone from 4 hour racing towards 4 day racing.
4 people, 4 stages, 3 people out on the course for each stage with the 4th driving the support vehicle to the end of the stage. It had a lot going for it.

The original Gaelforce 12 format would have been good to continue with in terms of progression to the getting very tired for fun racing. Teams of four racing over a weekend but crucially with a mandatory overnight break.

woody1

the amount of people further back in the waves that dont work together always surprises me.. okay so your not trying to win the race but if you get in a group with 3 or 4 then you save a considerable amount of energy for later in the race.. theres a massive line of cyclists but all with big gaps between, i tried to get a couple of groups going but gave up because of lack of interest .. in fairness one girl sat in behind late in the cycle and then did a pull at the front for a bit but it kind of broke down on the rough section.. ideally youd do the race with a few mates and keep a group together til the mountain..

re the time outs.. 2 years ago some people in wave 2 that had huge timeouts , 10 and 20 minutes were ahead of me in the results, in my mind i didnt count them, a minute or 2 or 3 is one thing, stopping and putting your feet up for a rest is something else entirely.. most of wave 2 beat me this year.. nothing to do with timeouts either ..

saw lots of fellas with shoes tied to bike and bike shoes on and i was wishing id done the same as i was trying to grind up that windy section on the off road..